Electrical shock -- Public lantern/light post

[MtDee]

Originally Posted by justalayman

I have been shocked with 500 volts (and obviously lived) but have known others that have been shocked with 120 that did not survive. There are many many variables that make a difference.

In this scenario (OP) the little girl would not have calloused skin (like I do) and as such, her skin has more moisture in it than mine. She would be a better conductor than I. Then, presuming she was passing the current to the ground, it was passing through her chest (very very bad). If she was barefoot and especially if the ground was moist, she very easily could have died.

This could have been very serious. Luckily it did not turn out as it could have.

Thank you justalalyman, my daughter WAS barefoot and it was misting outside, I feel she was/IS very lucky. She described to me that when she touched the pole (with her palm/thumb) she stated it felt like her feet lifted and her body shook up and down very very fast she said like 50 mph (she is 9 years old and I am sure her feet did not leave the ground, but it must have felt that way). However, I did not witness it, I just heard the scream. When I got to her she was shaking and her hand was clenched in a claw-like fashion and very red. I think her muscles were contracting. Her thumb is still tender.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by MtDee

her body shook up and down very very fast she said like 50 mph (she is 9 years old and I am sure her feet did not leave the ground, but it must have felt that way)..

maybe not 50 mph but 60 times/ second. That is the frequency of the alternating current we use in the USA and yes, you can feel it pulsating.

Since this does appear to be a manufactureres defect and if the repairman believed it could be this way in other fixtures, I would push for each of them to be inspected and repaired as needed. Either that or turn them off.

Notate everything about this incident now while the situation is fresh. If they fail to investigate and repair the fixtures and another person is hurt do to the same situation, the POCO (POwer COmpany) has already been notified of a problem and their failure to correct it could cause them to be liable in the future for any injuries.

At this point, it would most likely be a manufacturing defect situation with the manufacturer being liable but this incident and subsequent notice places the POCO in a position of liability as well.

[justalayman]

I must take a minute to apologize to any I offended in this thread. If you do not know, I am a professional electrician by trade and deal with this every day. I do understand electricity quite well and understand how dangerous it can be.

I take electricity extremely seriously.

My apologies for being so aggressive in my postings.

[racer72]

Originally Posted by justalayman

I must take a minute to apologize to any I offended in this thread. If you do not know, I am a professional electrician by trade and deal with this every day. I do understand electricity quite well and understand how dangerous it can be.

I take electricity extremely seriously.

My apologies for being so aggressive in my postings.

So do I. I work on powered commercial aircraft. Up to 3 phase 440 volts AC at 400 hz. 60 cycles is nothing compared to 400 cycles.

BULL****.

there are more deaths attributed to 120 volt exposeure than any other voltage.

Then may I suggest you tell OSHA, they supplied the info in my statement.

[justalayman]

Then may I suggest you tell OSHA, they supplied the info in my statement.

have a link for that?

120 not lethal? If it weren;t why do you think GFCI's are required on circuits where there is moisture involved? As a matter of fact, OSHA requires them on all temp power supplies in construction. and AFCI's now required in all but a few circuits in a house?

Life safety is what those are all about.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by racer72

Then may I suggest you tell OSHA, they supplied the info in my statement.

Might be an interesting read: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-131/epidemi.html

[billyswordman]

Glad to know your children are okay. Have you claimed for the medicine cost? And ask them to recheck and make sure that the same accident won't be occured again. We should also worry for every children in your neighbourhood too.

[jahrakal]

Thank god your daughter is OK.
I was terrifying to imagine that happen.

[stannan]

Question for the 2 electricians. How does what you have stated compare to lightning? Isn't that extreamly more powerfull than standard household current yet while many who are hit with it die, still some don't. I fall into the latter catigory and have been told I was most likely hit by a 'finger' from the main bolt and the fact that I was on a bike with rubber tires probably helped. I was very young at the time ( 12 yrs ) and most of what happened has always been blurry. I only remember right before and then people all around yelling at me.

To the OP. I am glad your children are ok.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by stannan

Question for the 2 electricians. How does what you have stated compare to lightning? .

.

being hit by lightning and living or dieing is the luck of the draw from what I have read. Lightning can be up to a billion volts and the current can be over 200,000 amps.(extreme levels of power. A typical house limits the current at 200 amps at 240 volts)

that amount of power is simply incomprehensible to me. It is a huge amount of power and has the ability to turn sand into glass, blow trees apart, and destroy anything it touches yet a person can be struck and survive.

What I believe part of the survival reason is what is called "skin effect". This is where the electrons of the current flow do not actually pass through the conductor but flow across the surface of the conductor. This, very simply put, allows the electricity to flow, for lack of a better term, around the person rather than through their body.

Skin effect is a common phenomena in AC current. As the frequency increases, the skin effect is more pronounced. One resource I read lists the frequency of a lightning bolt at an effective frequency of 60-70 kHz, which is basically 1000 times the frequency of typical house current. As racer knows, I am sure, that even at 400 Hz, the skin effect is quite pronounced, if not total. At the kHz range (kilohertz or 1000's of cycles per second), it would be pretty much absolute.

Part of the problem with determining any accurate reading of the lightning is it is just so powerful and so fast that the power measurements are simply calculated using the effects caused by the lightning.

The other problem is; with lightning, there is simply so much power involved, it pretty much does what it wants and often the most minute differences in the circuit involved alters the action of the lightning with no way to determine how or why the change effected the strike.

In other words; it is hard to make any accurate readings or determinations concerning lightning and the power involved. A lot of the specifics are simply educated "guesses" and calculations.

To be honest, I doubt the rubber tire actually made any difference. Lightning has enough potential (voltage) to be able to leap miles of distance so the leap from you to the ground would be quite easily accomplished.

I was chatting with a person that was sitting in an office, i think a couple floors above ground level (if I remember correctly) and a lightning strike came in the window and struck them. Now, there had to be thousands of points that were less resistive than the path the lightning took that day but for whatever reason, it avoided all the trees, the top of the building, and everybody else in this room and struck this one specific point.

I guess that person was simply "more attractive"

[stannan]

Thanks. I must say that is about the clearest answer I have ever gotten about that topic. The skin effect sounds very interesting. I've never heard of that. Learn something new here every day

[Ozark_Sophist]

Former Mrs Oz-So wanted a new washer and dryer installed in our place NOW. Figures the plug for the dryer was different, so I had to go back and get the appropriate outlet. Going to the store did not qualify as NOW by ex-Mrs. Oz-So. I flipped a breaker and started to work. She went off to do whatever the heck she did. Given my haste, I flipped the wrong breaker and ended up grabbing both hot 120 volt leads at the same time. I got one heck of a shock. Once I stopped flopping, I dragged myself across the floor to the door. ex-Mrs Oz-So walks in, sees me drooling and sputtering on the floor and yells, "Get back to work... I want to wash clothes," turns around and walks away. At least she didn't kick me in the ...

Stray voltages do occur. I try not to let my dogs go on street lamps or metal street grates when I walk them.

[sagito327]

You absolutely should contact a lawyer. Just because there is no permanent damage to your daughter does not mean that you are not entitled to pain and suffering money damages. Your suit could also result in the company being far more careful next time--the primary purpose of the civil court system.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by sagito327

You absolutely should contact a lawyer. Just because there is no permanent damage to your daughter does not mean that you are not entitled to pain and suffering money damages. Your suit could also result in the company being far more careful next time--the primary purpose of the civil court system.

Oh get real.
Kid is fine.
The problem was corrected in a timely manner.
There is no indication that the utility was aware there was a problem BEFORE this happened.

[sagito327]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Oh get real.
Kid is fine.
The problem was corrected in a timely manner.
There is no indication that the utility was aware there was a problem BEFORE this happened.

I do not understand why you feel awareness has anything to do with anything. A defective product is a defective product...there never has been any requirement that one must be aware their product is defective before a suit may be brought.