Electrical shock -- Public lantern/light post

[MtDee]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

We just moved to this area and my children were outside playing a couple days ago and when I heard my daughter screaming, I ran outside and found her shaking, holding her arm with her hand clenched in a claw-like fashion, and she was screaming that she got an electrical shock after touching the lantern in our front yard. My son was watching in horror.

I immediately called the electric company and they immediately sent a truck out. After the technician troubleshot this, he told me it was carrying 120V of electricity, and he too got whacked by it. He found and fixed the problem.

I took my daughter to the hospital to get examined, just to be safe, and she is fine, just a sore thumb/palm, where contact was made with the pole.

Anyway, I am so afraid now !! and I keep thinking, "what if" I could have lost my children!! (my son stated he touched the pole first and got a tingle, 2 times, and he is the one that told my daughter to touch it, so he is feeling very guilty now, as she got whacked moreso because she had touched the pole where there was not any paint, and I think that is why she got whacked more, I don't know for sure)

Anyway, I really think the electric company should be accountable, and check the rest of the poles in this area! What do you think?? Should I contact a lawyer?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Dougthegreat]

Since there wasn't any injury, I think you'd have a hard time making a case. You might get a better response if you contact the news or something, and apply a little public pressure

Just because your daughter was shocked does not constitute negligence on the power company's part...

[Roo]

Glad your children are ok.

They probably should check some others in the area (maybe they did). Just because one pole leaked current doesn't mean others are, although there may be a fault that affects more than one.

[Zigner]

The utility should pay the cost of the medical care you did seek. Submit a claim asap.
You aren't entitled to "reimbursement" for the what-ifs

[racer72]

First, standard 120 volts will not kill a normally healthy person. Yes, it hurts for a while but will cause no permanant injuries. As someone that has worked as an electronic technician and aviation electrician, I have been shocked a number of times, often with more than 120 volts, and have suffered no serious or permanant injuries. No comments from the peanut gallery please.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by racer72

First, standard 120 volts will not kill a normally healthy person. Yes, it hurts for a while but will cause no permanant injuries. As someone that has worked as an electronic technician and aviation electrician, I have been shocked a number of times, often with more than 120 volts, and have suffered no serious or permanant injuries. No comments from the peanut gallery please.

Racer -
As an electrical savvy person, you KNOW it's not the voltage, but the amperage.

And, if it goes in the arm THROUGH the heart and out the foot, it can easily kill.

[racer72]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Racer -
As an electrical savvy person, you KNOW it's not the voltage, but the amperage.

And, if it goes in the arm THROUGH the heart and out the foot, it can easily kill.

True. In fact today I taught a safety class on electrical safety. Most household current in the US is about 5 to 10 milliamps. This is enough to cause involuntary muscle contractions and if in contact long enough, will cause heart arithma, this is a fancy name of an irregular heartbeat. You have to get up to 25 or so milliamps to cause serious injury have the potential for death. 50 milliamps can cause heart failure and other organ damage. 100 milliamps will cause instant death and will cause burns to the skin. 1 amp will kill instantly with major bodily trauma, 5 amps would leave very little identifiable. I have been zapped a couple times that were bad enough to require medical attention, but it was much more than normal household current.

[ecmst12]

Didn't you say this was YOUR pole, on YOUR property? So wouldn't you be responsible for its upkeep?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by racer72

True. In fact today I taught a safety class on electrical safety. Most household current in the US is about 5 to 10 milliamps.

I am confused (and this is probably not the place to ask, but ask I will)...
The room I am in now has a 20 amp breaker. If I directly short it to ground, there will be 20 amps flowing through whatever is causing the short until the breaker trips...
Or am I understanding it wrong?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by ecmst12

Didn't you say this was YOUR pole, on YOUR property? So wouldn't you be responsible for its upkeep?

Excellent question

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by Zigner

I am confused (and this is probably not the place to ask, but ask I will)...
The room I am in now has a 20 amp breaker. If I directly short it to ground, there will be 20 amps flowing through whatever is causing the short until the breaker trips...
Or am I understanding it wrong?

It is a lot more complex than that.

for a direct short such as you describe, you would have a brief moment with around 100-120 amps flowing. It would be relatively short time (about 1/60 of a second) but that's what you would have.

let's do breakers 101. My answer will make more sense then.

Most commonly used breakers are what is called thermal-magnetic trip breakers and have an inverse time/current curve.

Let's take the thermal part first. That is where the rating (20 amp or whatever) is important. A breakers thermal trip is designed to trip after a certain amount of heat is made due to current flow. A 20 amp breaker is designed to carry that 20 amps for a reasonable time and then the heat will cause it to trip. The same breaker, if exposed to an elevated ambient temp can react the same with a lesser current flowing due to the combination of the ambient temp and the current flow induced heat.

That part of the breaker is designed to protect the wires connected to it.

So, the magnetic portion of the breaker: it is designed to prevent an extreme amount of current from flowing through it. If a dead short with a great amount of current flow is seen, it will trip very quickly. The reason you have only the 100-120 amps current is that is where it is desinged to trip on a dead short. If the breaker did not trip, depending on the area, you could have in excess of 100,000 amps although in most residential areas, it would more often be around 10,000 amps (either one will cause a lot of damage).

This part of the breaker (magnetic trip) is designed as a safety device and prevents a great amount of current from passing so as to not cause great damage to whatever is involved in the short circuit.

So, if you attempt to flow a lesser amount of current, it will react slower and a greater amount of current will make it trip faster. This is the inverse time/current thing.

So, the reason we need to have the breaker not trip at current over the nameplate rating for a limited period of time is there are often loads that under normal conditions, when first activated, will draw considerably more current than when running. A motor is the best and most common example of this. A motor often draws somewhere between 5 to 10 times namplate rating when starting and then dropping down to the nameplate current once spinning at speed.

So, we need to design the breaker so it will not trip when the motor starts yet it will protect the wires once it is spinning at the rated speed. So, we design it to trip (speed wise) inversely to the current flow passing through it. The less the current, the longer it will take to make the breaker trip. The greater the current, the quicker it will trip.


So, did that thoroughly confuse you?

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by racer72

First, standard 120 volts will not kill a normally healthy person. D

BULL****.

there are more deaths attributed to 120 volt exposeure than any other voltage.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Racer -
As an electrical savvy person, you KNOW it's not the voltage, but the amperage.

And, if it goes in the arm THROUGH the heart and out the foot, it can easily kill.

the amperage is a result of the resistance and the voltage. Ohms law will give you those calculations.

less than 1/3 of an amp is considered lethal. Normal dry skin can have a resistance of around 100,ooo ohms. Wet or damaged skin can be around 1000K.

0.05 A Ventricular interference, respiratory difficulty

to induce 50 mA with 1000ohms resistance, all you need is 50 volts.

0.1-0.3 A Ventricular fibrillation. Can be fatal.

to cause that current flow with a 1000 ohms resistance, you would need from 100 -300 volts.

Originally Posted by racer72
True. In fact today I taught a safety class on electrical safety. Most household current in the US is about 5 to 10 milliamps.

what is that supposed to mean? That makes no sense.

[justalayman]

I have been shocked with 500 volts (and obviously lived) but have known others that have been shocked with 120 that did not survive. There are many many variables that make a difference.

In this scenario (OP) the little girl would not have calloused skin (like I do) and as such, her skin has more moisture in it than mine. She would be a better conductor than I. Then, presuming she was passing the current to the ground, it was passing through her chest (very very bad). If she was barefoot and especially if the ground was moist, she very easily could have died.

This could have been very serious. Luckily it did not turn out as it could have.

[MtDee]

Originally Posted by ecmst12

Didn't you say this was YOUR pole, on YOUR property? So wouldn't you be responsible for its upkeep?

No, it is not my lantern, just so happens the town lantern is in our yard. It is a decorative type street light that stands about 20 feet tall and they are sprawled out about the whole development.

The electrical utility company is the one who sent the repairman to look at it. I have since talked with the electric company and the claims representative said they would pay for any out of pocket medical bills for my daughter. She seemed very sincere in wanting to be sure that my children were okay, she actually called me twice to follow up.

From my understanding it IS possible to die from 120V shock.

Thank you all for your input!

My concern is still that this could happen to other light poles in the area, as the repairman said it was because of the manufacturer's make-up of the photo-cell at the top of the light that has some extra short wires that are not used?? I really did not understand it all, but, he made it sound like there was extra wires and one of them was touching the metal of the light pole, which in turn made it carry the 120V.

My husband thinks something is still not right, because if it were grounded it would not have happened?? I don't know, I am just thankful my children are okay.