collecting a promissory note from ex (help)

[rome0]

(PA)
So my ex and i split up and right before we did i went to the notary and had her sign a 40G promissory note, i figured it was counting ALL the money and effort i spent on her from the beginning of our relationship till 6 years after. The note states that she pays monthly (around 800) for about 4 years.
7 months later and I'm finally over her but i'm still paying for some things that were once hers (phone, joint credit card etc.) I came to the conclusion that i only want 15G back because that amount was the official amount that i paid for her credit cards out of my pocket and the rest of 25G was just us blowing it together on going out and doing coupley stuff. Mind you that she hasn't paid me back a single cent and she's going around saying that she doesn't owe me anything. To top it off, we're still both young and i'm finishing up college. Since i never been in this situation or thought that i would be suing someone who i once loved dearly, i need a guide on what to do, i don't know where to go or what to say for that matter. Legal advice is what i am seeking, but moral advice is greatly appreciated as well (besides devastated i am confused as well)! Thank you much in advance!

 

[Proserpina]

(PA)
So my ex and i split up and right before we did i went to the notary and had her sign a 40G promissory note, i figured it was counting ALL the money and effort i spent on her from the beginning of our relationship till 6 years after. The note states that she pays monthly (around 800) for about 4 years.
7 months later and I'm finally over her but i'm still paying for some things that were once hers (phone, joint credit card etc.) I came to the conclusion that i only want 15G back because that amount was the official amount that i paid for her credit cards out of my pocket and the rest of 25G was just us blowing it together on going out and doing coupley stuff. Mind you that she hasn't paid me back a single cent and she's going around saying that she doesn't owe me anything. To top it off, we're still both young and i'm finishing up college. Since i never been in this situation or thought that i would be suing someone who i once loved dearly, i need a guide on what to do, i don't know where to go or what to say for that matter. Legal advice is what i am seeking, but moral advice is greatly appreciated as well (besides devastated i am confused as well)! Thank you much in advance!

I haven't got any good news for you, so I'm afraid I'll have to just go with the bad news.

Promissory note or not, collecting is going to be a major issue - PA does not allow regular creditors to garnish wages.

And that assumes it wouldn't be tossed out to begin with; there's something about such agreements that makes Pennsylvania judges just not happy at all....you don't get paid for money you spend during a relationship.

If you insist, you might find her counterclaiming against you.

Finally - as if it wasn't bad enough - the amount is too high for small claims, and you'd have to sue her in a higher court which adds considerably to your court costs... and which may not be recoverable.

 

[rome0]

I haven't got any good news for you, so I'm afraid I'll have to just go with the bad news.

Promissory note or not, collecting is going to be a major issue - PA does not allow regular creditors to garnish wages.

And that assumes it wouldn't be tossed out to begin with; there's something about such agreements that makes Pennsylvania judges just not happy at all....you don't get paid for money you spend during a relationship.

If you insist, you might find her counterclaiming against you.

Finally - as if it wasn't bad enough - the amount is too high for small claims, and you'd have to sue her in a higher court which adds considerably to your court costs... and which may not be recoverable.

Right when i felt that the relationship was taking a downhill spiral i was sure to read about what to do. So i insured myself by having her sign both an Affidavit and the promissory note in front of a notary.
Both papers states that she owes me that amount for things that i helped her out with such as her credit card debit.
Could you give me an example of her counter claiming against me?
And i don't want 40G, i just want the 15G (is that amount still to high? and what is considered a small claim)

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[Proserpina]

Right when i felt that the relationship was taking a downhill spiral i was sure to read about what to do. So i insured myself by having her sign both an Affidavit and the promissory note in front of a notary.
Both papers states that she owes me that amount for things that i helped her out with such as her credit card debit.
Could you give me an example of her counter claiming against me?

Now, if she agreed that the monies given were loans and you have a document proving that, that's half the battle. The other stuff - "effort" for example - I'd be extremely surprised if that works for you at all.

Out of interest, had the relationship continued would you still require the debt to be paid?

And i don't want 40G, i just want the 15G (is that amount still to high? and what is considered a small claim)

Thank you very much in advance!

Smalls claim courts deal with ...well, small claims. In PA, the max limit is actually very generous - $12k. So that might actually be something you should consider.

Again though, collecting is going to be the difficult part for you. The court won't do it for you, and you're limited to figuring out if she has a bank account and levying that instead.

It's worth noting though that although PA won't allow you to garnish her wages directly, once they hit that bank account they're fair game.

 

[rome0]

Now, if she agreed that the monies given were loans and you have a document proving that, that's half the battle. The other stuff - "effort" for example - I'd be extremely surprised if that works for you at all.

Out of interest, had the relationship continued would you still require the debt to be paid?




Smalls claim courts deal with ...well, small claims. In PA, the max limit is actually very generous - $12k. So that might actually be something you should consider.

Again though, collecting is going to be the difficult part for you. The court won't do it for you, and you're limited to figuring out if she has a bank account and levying that instead.

It's worth noting though that although PA won't allow you to garnish her wages directly, once they hit that bank account they're fair game.

I loved this girl with all my heart and soul, i would do literally anything for her, hence why i paid all that money. I was working an under the table job and financially providing for us both at the time. The thing is, that it wasn't me who wanted the relationship it was her, we had been friends throughout high-school, until we became best of friends and she asked for a relationship. Stuff started going downhill when her parents weren't acknowledging us together (due to her being a different culture), and then one day she blocked my number off her phone, because she was "too busy", which i was paying for. From then on i took precaution and sure enough we didn't last 2 months after. What disturbed me the most was how someone could turn a new leaf on a 8 year old relationship and friendship in one week, she started seeing someone else. So no i wouldn't of needed the money back if we were still together because her and i were like one at the time.

So you're saying if i asked for 12k, i would be fine? As for the collecting, i still have her bank account and routing #, not to mention that i still get emails from every direct deposit her job puts in her account, this goes back to how close we really were. I was waiting graduation from grad school to pop the question.

 

[Proserpina]

No, I meant the dollar amount will govern your options.

1. http://www.pabar.org/clips/bringingsuitBeforeDJ.pdf <--- claims of less than $12k can be brought here...unless you live in Philadelphia County.

2. http://www.palawhelp.org/resource/magisterial-district-courts <---- claims of less than $8K

3. Our very own https://law.freeadvice.com/small_claims/small_claims/pennsylvania-small-claims-court.htm <---- $8k...or $10k.

So pick one.

You really don't want to read my commentary on the rest of your post.

 

[tranquility]

The power of a promissory note is the negotiability and the lack of defenses to a holder in due course. Also, it tends to give a set amount of the debt owed. However, the person making such a note still has all the normal defenses against the original "creditor". Here, the fact it seems the money is a gift or...otherwise, from a lawful debt might give the ex some rights in court.

A post "debt" created note with nothing more (Like, I will give up my legal remedies if you sign a note.) held by the original creditor is not going to be a slam dunk in court. (Let alone the issues in collecting on it.)

 

[Just Blue]

(PA)
So my ex and i split up and right before we did i went to the notary and had her sign a 40G promissory note, i figured it was counting ALL the money and effort i spent on her from the beginning of our relationship till 6 years after.!

Please clarify a few things for me:

1. How old were you and the Ex at the start of your relationship?
2. What is the actual loan amount and what was the effort amount?
3. Are you including personal things such as flowers? A night out? A movie? If so do you have 40k in receipts?

Blue

 

[Just Blue]

I loved this girl with all my heart and soul, i would do literally anything for her, hence why i paid all that money. I was working an under the table job and financially providing for us both at the time. The thing is, that it wasn't me who wanted the relationship it was her, we had been friends throughout high-school, until we became best of friends and she asked for a relationship. Stuff started going downhill when her parents weren't acknowledging us together (due to her being a different culture), and then one day she blocked my number off her phone, because she was "too busy", which i was paying for. From then on i took precaution and sure enough we didn't last 2 months after. What disturbed me the most was how someone could turn a new leaf on a 8 year old relationship and friendship in one week, she started seeing someone else. So no i wouldn't of needed the money back if we were still together because her and i were like one at the time.

So you're saying if i asked for 12k, i would be fine? As for the collecting, i still have her bank account and routing #, not to mention that i still get emails from every direct deposit her job puts in her account, this goes back to how close we really were. I was waiting graduation from grad school to pop the question.

You were working under the table? So you didn't pay taxes on that income as you were LEGALLY supposed to?

 

[rome0]

Please clarify a few things for me:

1. How old were you and the Ex at the start of your relationship?
2. What is the actual loan amount and what was the effort amount?
3. Are you including personal things such as flowers? A night out? A movie? If so do you have 40k in receipts?

Blue

We were both around 19 at the beginning
The ACTUAL loan ,and this was not a gift, was 15k but if i just have to subtract 3k from the original amount i loaned out in order to get some of my money back so be it
The effort amount that i poured into this relationship was probably around 25K , from the 30mi drive everyday to the jewelry and restaurants, and i went back to my bank statements to do the additions. So although i do not have receipts to everything, i do have my bank statements! But again i'm not looking to get the effort amount back, just the actual amount i loaned out to her to pay her maxed out credit cards.

And Proserpina thank you for your help, i know that it wasn't the smartest thing i've done, but i'd like to think that it was real love at first

 

[Just Blue]

oyyyyyyyy

 

[tranquility]

We were both around 19 at the beginning
The ACTUAL loan ,and this was not a gift, was 15k but if i just have to subtract 3k from the original amount i loaned out in order to get some of my money back so be it
The effort amount that i poured into this relationship was probably around 25K , from the 30mi drive everyday to the jewelry and restaurants, and i went back to my bank statements to do the additions. So although i do not have receipts to everything, i do have my bank statements! But again i'm not looking to get the effort amount back, just the actual amount i loaned out to her to pay her maxed out credit cards.

And Proserpina thank you for your help, i know that it wasn't the smartest thing i've done, but i'd like to think that it was real love at first

I think you will have a greater chance in fooling your ex she has to pay some back than you will have convincing the court. The more you write, the less this seems like a papered loan and the more it seems like a relationship that went bad.

 

[latigo]

(PA)
So my ex and i [sic]split up and right before we did i went to the notary and had her sign a 40G promissory note, i figured it was counting ALL the money and effort i spent on her from the beginning of our relationship till 6 years after. The note states that she pays monthly (around 800) for about 4 years.
7 months later and I'm finally over her but i'm [sic] still paying for some things that were once hers (phone, joint credit card etc.) I came to the conclusion that i only want 15G back because that amount was the official amount that i paid for her credit cards out of my pocket and the rest of 25G was just us blowing it together on going out and doing coupley [sic] stuff. Mind you that she hasn't paid me back a single cent and she's going around saying that she doesn't owe me anything. To top it off, we're still both young and i'm [sic] finishing up college. Since i never been in this situation or thought that i would be suing someone who i once loved dearly, i need a guide on what to do, i don't know where to go or what to say for that matter. Legal advice is what i am seeking, but moral advice is greatly appreciated as well (besides devastated i am confused as well)! Thank you much in advance!

Until the "debt" supposedly evidence by this "so-called promissory note" is reduced to a judgment you can only hope that she will be stupid enough to pay it voluntarily.

ALSO know this. Should you sue her on the note and she has the good sense to hire a competent lawyer to defend your lawsuit on the grounds of coercion, extortion, failure of consideration and the absence of a reasonable opportunity and financial means for her to seek independent legal advice before signing the rapacious, predatory document, plus the likely absence of a related pre nuptial, YOU WILL LOSE!

 

[rome0]

Until the "debt" supposedly evidence by this "so-called promissory note" is reduced to a judgment you can only hope that she will be stupid enough to pay it voluntarily.

ALSO know this. Should you sue her on the note and she has the good sense to hire a competent lawyer to defend your lawsuit on the grounds of coercion, extortion, failure of consideration and the absence of a reasonable opportunity and financial means for her to seek independent legal advice before signing the rapacious, predatory document, plus the likely absence of a related pre nuptial, YOU WILL LOSE!

It seems like mostly everyone is judging and answering their own opinion due to the bad relationship that i had. Yes the relationship went bad, hence why i want my money back. Yes sure at the time i didn't even think that it would end up like this, i wasn't going to sue someone who potentially going to become my wife. Now after 7 months of waiting and finally coming to my sense, i honestly just want the money i loaned out to her back, not out of revenge or ill will but for financial reasons.
The problem is simple i lent her 15k out of my pocket to pay for her credit cards, and when i noticed the sour treatment, i covered my own ass by writing a promissory note and an affidavit to back up the promissory, that she signed at the time on her own will in-front of the notary. I didn't put a gun to her head for her to sign it, at the time she knew that she owed a large sum of money, and she respected that by signing both papers.

I just keep getting the impression that a notarized promissory not backed up by an affidavit is totally useless, which doesn't make sense to me. How do normal people lend out loans and make sure they get it back?

 

[tranquility]

It seems like mostly everyone is judging and answering their own opinion due to the bad relationship that i had. Yes the relationship went bad, hence why i want my money back. Yes sure at the time i didn't even think that it would end up like this, i wasn't going to sue someone who potentially going to become my wife. Now after 7 months of waiting and finally coming to my sense, i honestly just want the money i loaned out to her back, not out of revenge or ill will but for financial reasons.
The problem is simple i lent her 15k out of my pocket to pay for her credit cards, and when i noticed the sour treatment, i covered my own ass by writing a promissory note and an affidavit to back up the promissory, that she signed at the time on her own will in-front of the notary. I didn't put a gun to her head for her to sign it, at the time she knew that she owed a large sum of money, and she respected that by signing both papers.

I just keep getting the impression that a notarized promissory not backed up by an affidavit is totally useless, which doesn't make sense to me. How do normal people lend out loans and make sure they get it back?

We are NOT judging upon the bad relationship, we are judging on the law.

It is unlikely you can prove there was a valid debt. It is untrue, when you speak of all the facts, you have a note that is defensible as a promissory note. (No consideration.) Even if you could sell the note to another who might be able to collect on it as a holder in due course, the ex would be able to go after you in court for amounts she paid that were not valid.

Making a promissory note contemporaneous with the handing over of consideration (making a loan) is going to be a pretty powerful argument in court. Giving a bunch of money one day and then noticing when a relationship goes sour and having the other sign a note then as protection, is not a powerful argument in court. It reeks of a gift based upon your relationship where you later had a change of heart. While she should not have signed the note as it could cause her problems in proving up her side, it is hardly going to be that persuasive. And, as latigo wrote, it could very well be used against you--depending on the underlying facts.