Debt collection agency problem!

[Maquar]

State: California

Hello,

I am, unfortunately, one of the many people having debt problems and hoping someone here can shed some light on my situation. I owe money to a credit card company. I became very ill for about a year and a half and was unable to pay my bills so my credit card was closed. Eventually, I got better and started working again but am now being sued by the credit card company for the money owed. The credit card company turned the case over to a debt collection agency and they located my parents address and started sending notices there. I have not lived with my parents since I was a minor but occasionally receive mail there as I would live with friends. Having my mail sent to my parents address guaranteed that my mail was in one location and didn't have to worry about it.

I made payment arrangements with the debt collection agency and have paid faithfully every month on the day specified but this morning my parents called me in a panicked state saying that the county and the debt collection agency had placed a lien on their house until the debt is paid off. This is absolutely ridiculous to me. How can they associate my parents with "my" debt just because I had my mail sent to their address? What if I had my mail sent to a PO box, would they then place a lien on the post office since I received my mail there? I am 33 years old and have not lived at my parents house since I was 16. Are they allowed to do this? In case the amount owed makes a difference it is under $5000.

Thank you for your advice,

Mark

[mlk1978]

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure they cant do that. The home is not even in your name (or so I think). I believe they would have to put the lein if any on property that IS in your name... not your parents. Send the debt collector a letter (copy for your file) stating that the home is not in your name, and to please remove the lein from the property. Make sure you state in there that you have been paying the debt as agreed. Dont get offensive in it though, be nice, nice letters get more attention. If you dont hear anything in 15-30 days then call a lawyer and have the lawyer do the dirty work. Maybe he can get the whole thing removed to begin with. Good luck!

[Ladynred]

Ok. FIRST they can't put a lien on anything without a judgment. You say you've been making payments, but it sounds like they got the judgment anyway.

Secondly, if the house is NOT in your name they can NOT put a lien on your PARENT's home !! You need to address this ASAP, get a copy of the deed and prove to the collection scumbags that their lien is ILLEGAL because its NOT your property !

[Maquar]

State: California

Thank you for replies!

Well, I do admit I'm a big dummy when it comes to all the terms and procedures for debt collection. I DO know that I was told over the phone that in order to not have a judgement against me I needed to make payment arrangements so I did. I plan on going to their office Monday morning and attempting to straighten things out so I'd like to find out as much information about my rights as I can before I do.

Mark

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by Maquar

I plan on going to their office Monday morning and attempting to straighten things out ...

I strongly advise against that. Do not go to the CAs office. If you do and you get worked up at all, they can call the police and you are the one who is going to suffer.

Handle this by phone or by mail -- preferably by mail -- certified mail.

I understand you are upset. This is an emotional issue for you -- it isn't for them. To handle this effectly you have got to detach the emotion and treat it simply like a business matter.

Unfortunately -- and the lawyers on the site will probably comment -- if your name isn't on the house, you don't have standing to contest the lien. Your parents will have to do that. And frankly, they can probably make enough off of the deal to pay for that new deck. THEY need to talk to an attorney about it.

DC

[Chien]

Some things are wrong here (no, I'm not referring to the ones that you think are wrong) but it's hard to tell what they are from your post. Can you provide some more information?

There are only two ways that your parent's property could be encumbered. If the property itself was the subject of litigation, what is known as a lis pendens could be filed when the litigation started - nothing close to that in your post. The other way is if a judgment was already taken against you with that address as the service address at the time judgment was entered. You make no mention of a judgment either. (Well, actually, there's a third, if there's a property tax lien, but let's come back to that later, if necessary)

I might think this was some scare tactic from the CA except that there is a statutory requirement for the county in which an Abstract is recorded to send a copy to the property address, and you say that was done. I don't believe that a County Recorder is "in on the scam", so something is missing from your post.

Everything that you explain suggests that there's an existing judgment against you, and it's registered to that address. I'm not buying into that explanation (yet), but you need to provide more information.

What your parents got is entitled "Abstract of Judgment" (at the very bottom). (If it's not, we need to start this whole dialogue again). In the upper left corner is the name and designation of the court where the judgment was taken. In the right upper portion is the case number, approximately left middle is the name of the party against whom judgment was taken and at the bottom are the judgment date and amount (left and right side respectively).

One more thing: if there was more than one judgment debtor, the name and address is on the back.

Get back to us with that information, and we may be better able to figure out what's going on.

You can do that without going to the CA office.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. DC is correct. Even if all apply and there is a judgment against you, procedural problems can exist but they're minimal if the house isn't in your name.

[Maquar]

Thank you very much for your help in this matter. One thing I was told by the Collection Agent at one point was that "even though I was making payments they still were going to go through with their procedures". I certainly would not think putting a lien on my parents house would be part of their procedures.

As for the address being used where they first contacted me via mail, yes it was my parents address where the mail was being sent to. The CA was told that I had not lived there since I was a minor but was receiving mail there. Being uneducated in this area I really don't see the relevance of this fact. Let's say I had I been receiving my mail at a friends house where I was living, would they then place a lien on my friends house? That is ridiculous.

I am a very reasonable person and normally don't "fly off the handle" so to speak when things get heated. One of the reasons I wanted to go into the office is so I can get things in writing. When I first started paying the CA the amount was a specific amount. 2 months later they had added almost $1000 so I called to question them about this. I was told that these were "their" fees figured in but was also told that they would be removed once I started getting towards the end of my payments provided I didn't miss any payments. Personally, I think they are full of it and by having conversations over the phone there is no "proof" of what is promised. It's the "he said, she said" things I am worried about. If they are in writing then it is actul proof. I don't have an attorney and definitely cannot afford one at this time so that route is not an option for me. Should I still not go into the office even with a polite attitude? I really would like to get things in writing and they are VERY rude on the phone.

As for the information needed, are you asking for "actual" information such as case numbers and names? Is that safe to post here?

And to DC and the new deck comment: Are you saying that my parents can actually get money from them for wrongfully putting a lien on their house?

Thank you again,

Mark

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by Maquar

... Let's say I had I been receiving my mail at a friends house where I was living, would they then place a lien on my friends house? That is ridiculous.

Correct that would be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Maquar

I am a very reasonable person and normally don't "fly off the handle" so to speak when things get heated.

Doesn't matter. All you have to do is raise your voice once or imply a threat.

Originally Posted by Maquar

One of the reasons I wanted to go into the office is so I can get things in writing.

Getting thing in writing is the best course of action. I still recommend US Mail. It can help build your paper trail.

Originally Posted by Maquar

When I first started paying the CA the amount was a specific amount. 2 months later they had added almost $1000 so I called to question them about this. I was told that these were "their" fees figured in but was also told that they would be removed once I started getting towards the end of my payments provided I didn't miss any payments.

Umm, no. The only way they could have added extra fees is if they had sued you. The FDCPA is your friend -- read it. [url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm[/url]

Originally Posted by Maquar

Personally, I think they are full of it and by having conversations over the phone there is no "proof" of what is promised. It's the "he said, she said" things I am worried about.

And you should be. A CA that is on the level and professional will have no problem documenting your agreement. It protects them too.

Originally Posted by Maquar

If they are in writing then it is actul proof. I don't have an attorney and definitely cannot afford one at this time so that route is not an option for me. Should I still not go into the office even with a polite attitude? I really would like to get things in writing and they are VERY rude on the phone.

I'll repeat this because it is very important. IF YOU GO DOWN THE THE CA'S OFFICE, THE ODDS ARE EXCELLANT THAT YOU WILL HAVE AN ATTORNEY APPOINTED FOR YOU. They are not going to talk to you in person. It isn't done that way. Try this -- use the mail.

Originally Posted by Maquar

As for the information needed, are you asking for "actual" information such as case numbers and names? Is that safe to post here?

No it isn't. What they are refering to is:
When did you open the account?
When was the last payment to either the OC or CA made?
Did you demand validation of the debt?
Is there a judgment?
If so, when was it issued?
Were you served?
Would you be able to seek advice from one of the free lagal clinics for poor people?
Have you contacted the county recorder's office to verify that there is a lein on your parent's house and it is from the CA?
Have you verified the existance of the judgment and and amounts with the court?

Originally Posted by Maquar

And to DC and the new deck comment: Are you saying that my parents can actually get money from them for wrongfully putting a lien on their house?

I am going to rephrase the question: Can somebody successfully sue for somebody placing a lein on their house? I would think so. Also, placing a lein on your parents' house to force you to pay would be an FDCPA violation. Threatening to place a lein on you parents' house is an FDCPA violation. Those are actionable.

DC

[Chien]

Q. As for the information needed . . . is that safe to post here?

A. Ok - This one's on me. I gave you too much to work with. But I did say that everything in your original posts made it sound as if there already was a judgment against you and you're still talking about "being sued" and what you were to do "in order to not have a judgement". I WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THERE WAS ONE ALREADY. You hadn't acknowledged it when I last posted and you still haven't ('tho I now think that it can safely be inferred.)

If there is a judgment and there is a filed Abstract, everything in that Abstract is already public information. I really don't want to know where your parents live, but it might have helped to know if it's your name on "the document" and, if so, that the name is associated with the address you were using when the obligation arose. You still haven't confirmed that it's an Abstract. You talk about "a lien", and there are types of liens that have nothing to do with a judgment, even if it was "placed by a collection agency".

Knowing the court that issued "the document" would possibly have allowed me direct you to court information online that you were otherwise looking to get from the CA.

I guess that I phrased the question poorly, but I think you've now told us enough to know that "being sued" means "was sued" and what you were to do "to not have a judgment" is irrelevant because you have one. Sorry to have confused you, Mark, but you had me confused too.

You might want to consider DC's suggestions about communications, but I can tell you that lien is not coming off that property until the judgment is paid or the creditor decides to release it for other consideration. If that's where you were served before the debt went to judgment, "fairness" is not an issue. It doesn't matter who owns/owned it.

[Maquar]

Thank you very much again for your replies. I will get the information needed and post back with it within a few hours.

Mark

[Maquar]

I haven't been able to get the information just yet but will have it soon. I have a question about your statement:

"but I can tell you that lien is not coming off that property until the judgment is paid or the creditor decides to release it for other consideration. If that's where you were served before the debt went to judgment, "fairness" is not an issue. It doesn't matter who owns/owned it."

According to what DC is saying it is illegal and in violation of the FDCPA so wouldn't there be some sort of requirement that they reverse it immediately?

Thanks,

Mark

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by Maquar

According to what DC is saying it is illegal and in violation of the FDCPA so wouldn't there be some sort of requirement that they reverse it immediately?

To clarify: Threatening to place a lein on your parent's property for your debt is a violation of the FDCPA - you have to sue.

If a lein has been placed already, your parents need to talk to an attorney and I would imagine that some sort of claim would be asked for.

There are no FDCPA police. If a violation has occured, you have to document and enforce it yourself.

** Steps you need to follow **
1. Check with the county to verify the existance of the lein.
2. Make sure it is from the CA you had been paying.
## Side note -- I find it very unlikely that a CA would go through the hassle of seeking a judgment and placing a lein if you are making regular payments. If they already had the judgment, then placing a lein on your property is just insurance.
3. If there is a lein, your parents need to contact an attorney.
4. If your name is on the deed, scratch everything said and buckle down to pay the bill.

DC

[Chien]

OP - Allow me to try to respectfully make this clear, simple and brief.

The FDCPA prohibits the use of "threats" to take legal action that will not and/or cannot be taken to motivate and/or enforce collection.

California has it's own state Collection Act that is, in fact, even more rigorous than the FDCPA. (Among other things, it covers original creditors, which the FDCPA does not.)

It's called the Rosenthal Act and, because it's more strict, it even pre-empts the FDCPA.

(I promised to be brief but, for the sake of trivia, it originally had a somewhat different name, but the co-sponsor was indicted after passage and the name was shortened. Kinda like Stalin was erased from Russian history.)

In any event, the address on an Abstract has nothing to do with the FDCPA, or the Rosenthal Act or your conception of fairness. It is and must be the address where service was made. Therefore, if your parents' house is the location where you were served, it will be the address on any writ and on any Abstract.

That's one of the reasons that I asked the questions that I did originally and it is the reason that I said that, while they may be minimal, there may be procedural problems.

And you can't sue for it, because the judgment creditor did exactly what the law requires that it do.

If the judgment isn't paid by the time your parents want to sell or re-finance their house, you'll have to clear up the problem at that time. It can be done but, in the meantime, there will be a "cloud" on the title.

[Maquar]

Well I have found out that it is for certain an "abstract of judgement". It has MY name on it and my parents name is nowhere to be seen on it. My father is very upset about all of this. He plans on going to the county tomorrow and also calling the CA.

My roommate who works with liens for a living told me that anyone can place a lien on anyone for any reason and the county has to record it. She said it may not be valid but they, by law, must record it and send notices which is what they did.

There IS a judgement against me but I am beginning to think these people are not used to having people actually "pay" them as I have been doing. So they are taking every precaution and every road they can think of. The entire thing is very frusrating.

I'm going to call the CA office tomorrow and tell them that I am not on the deed and then my father plans on calling as well since , as stated previously, THEY are the ones who need to call and tell them so.

[Kane]

Chien, could you help me out on this?

I can tell you that lien is not coming off that property until the judgment is paid or the creditor decides to release it for other consideration. If that's where you were served before the debt went to judgment, "fairness" is not an issue. It doesn't matter who owns/owned it.

Here in Texas, the Republic of Texas folks used to go around putting phoney liens on people's property. They passed a law against it. (Now they're in criminal court, arguing the courts don't have jurisdiction over them. )

What is the law related to liens? How do you go about getting rid of one, if the debt's not yours?

Thanks.