Debt Collector Threatens to put me down as refusl to pay

[g2ny]

Hello! I need some advice.

I contacted my debt collection agency today and asked them to provide me with a statement, in which they out right refused to send me. I explained that since I do not know what has been paid on the account and what has not been paid, I would like the statement for that reason. Then the debt collector refused again and said he was going to mark my account as refusal to pay. I made it clear that I was not refusing to pay, I merely wanted to be able to get my finances in order and see what the statement said. He then said because I was asking for the documents (i.e. the statement) I was refusing to pay. I don't really know what to do at this point. I made it perfectly clear 4 times that I was not refusing to pay and yet the creditor said he was going to mark my account as refusal to pay. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated!

 

[Country Living]

Put your request in writing and send it to the DC certified mail return receipt.

 

[TigerD]

Hello! I need some advice.

I contacted my debt collection agency today and asked them to provide me with a statement, in which they out right refused to send me. I explained that since I do not know what has been paid on the account and what has not been paid, I would like the statement for that reason. Then the debt collector refused again and said he was going to mark my account as refusal to pay. I made it clear that I was not refusing to pay, I merely wanted to be able to get my finances in order and see what the statement said. He then said because I was asking for the documents (i.e. the statement) I was refusing to pay. I don't really know what to do at this point. I made it perfectly clear 4 times that I was not refusing to pay and yet the creditor said he was going to mark my account as refusal to pay. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated!

The conversation probably went something like this:
I'd like a statement.
We're a collection agency not a billing agency. The balance due is XXXX will you be paying that with a check or credit card today?
I want to know what has been paid on the account. ......
It's a difficult concept. We are a collection agency. The balance is XXX. Grab your checkbook.
No. I ..
Then I'll note your refusal to pay and set this forward for full and immediate collections actions against you.

If you didn't pay, you refused to pay. They asked you to pay your debt and you refused. Why you refused is not relevant to the CA. If you want a statement go to the OC or check your records.

DC

 

[g2ny]

The conversation probably went something like this:
I'd like a statement.
We're a collection agency not a billing agency. The balance due is XXXX will you be paying that with a check or credit card today?
I want to know what has been paid on the account. ......
It's a difficult concept. We are a collection agency. The balance is XXX. Grab your checkbook.
No. I ..
Then I'll note your refusal to pay and set this forward for full and immediate collections actions against you.

If you didn't pay, you refused to pay. They asked you to pay your debt and you refused. Why you refused is not relevant to the CA. If you want a statement go to the OC or check your records.

DC

Actually, that's not at all the situation. They never asked me for the total payment. We were trying to work out a payment plan because they are contracted from another company who was contracted by the OC. The OC notified me that any validation requests would have to be made through the current debt collection agency. I was not aware of valdiation forms until recently and called to ask if they could send me the statement and subsequent account information without me having to send the form in. I also believe under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, validation has to be through the current debt collection agency and not through the OC. They refused. I then asked if I sent the validation form in if they would validate it that way. They refused and told me because I was asking for the documents I was refusing to pay. I said I wasn't refusing to pay, and the guy told me that I was and that any statements and documentation outside of a bill was considered confidential and that not even a court order could retain those documents (meaning documents that prove that the account is mine and they have a right to collect on it). They even refused to tell me if they owned the debt or if they were collecting on it. I had to find out from the OC they were collecting on it, but the OC even refused to validate/verify any information. Actually I believe the court case Fields v. Wilber Law Firm, Donald L Wilber and Kenneth Wilber 7th Circuit court Sept 2004 establishes that a debtor must be provided with a complete payment history on the account upon validation request.

I am just asking how to proceed now that I've been refused validation by the OC and the current debt collector. I'm sending in a valdiation letter to them through certified mail return receipt tomorrow, but they said they wouldn't honor that. My question now is should I seek legal counsel? (Even though the debt collector told me that he would not yield to a lawyer and any lawyer who asked him for validation, he would refuse them). I'm just not sure what to do now. Because it wasn't a refusal to pay, I even told him once I got a bill or a statement, I would pay something.

I do have a right for validation including payment history and proof that they have a right to collect, proof that they are liscensed to collect etc. They are refusing that right and am asking what to do now.

 

[Zigner]

I am curious...why are you so hung up on the phrase "refuse to pay". The phrase is true...at that moment, you are refusing to pay. There's no special note that goes on your credit report...it's just a scare tactic.

 

[g2ny]

I am curious...why are you so hung up on the phrase "refuse to pay". The phrase is true...at that moment, you are refusing to pay. There's no special note that goes on your credit report...it's just a scare tactic.

It's also the fact that they are refusing to validate the account which I have that right because it's under 30 days. But the refusal to pay, they told me they were going to put it on my credit report. The point is also that I paid a small amount in the past on the account when it was with a different creditor but because it wasn't cleared up in X amount of time, they contracted it to this new agency and partially refunded some of the money I paid on the account to me. So I have no idea what is still owed and if they are illegally adding fees to the account (I've read online that this agency is notorious for doing that) so I want to get it cleared up. But they said if they put refusal to pay then the account will be closed, I will be sued, it will be put on my credit report as a refusal etc. Even though I'm still in my right to receive validation under the act. The man then told me he would verbally let me know what I had paid and so I told him go ahead and then he made up an excuse as to why he couldn't. Just a few moments ago I received a call for the collectors boss saying that it was noted I had refused to pay and he told me he was going to take me to court and take all my property (which I own nothing because I still live with my parents and am still in school) and then they said they would get a court order to reposes my parents house/car. All because the account says "refusal to pay." I then offered to pay a small amount until validation (because I got scared) and they refused that payment. So here I am, they refuse to let me pay a small portion and refuse to validate. The debt is for a substantial amount of money that I can't afford right now. So that's why I came here looking for help on what to do next.

 

[TigerD]

I do have a right for validation including payment history and proof that they have a right to collect, proof that they are liscensed to collect etc.

No. You don't.

DC

 

[g2ny]

No. You don't.

DC

Then tell me what the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act gives me the right to do if not to validate their claim that the debt is mine? I actually found a validation letter on a legal website that says under the act sec 809 (b), they must provide what the money I owe is for, explain and show how they calculated my debt, provide with copies that show I agreed to pay for the debt, provide verification or copy of judgement, identify the original creditor, prove the Statue of limitations hasn't run out, provide with license numbers and registered agent, provide with complete payment history on the account. Is this incorrect then? Because it is to my understanding that I have a right to validate within 30 days and receive this information. If not this information then what does validation mean? (Because I'm confused if you're saying that no it doesn't give me the rights listed in the previous post, what rights does it give me? In case I ever have to go through this mess again - which I hope is never!)

Anyways, I worked it out with a higher up at the OC. They actually told me that what the debt collector they hired was doing to me was illegal and that they would handle the case solely from now on. I was shocked by this, but I think they were afraid that the collection agency would be sued because they refused to validate (simply validate, within 30 days) and the fact that the agency supervisor threatened my parents. The OC even told me that they would work with me as much as possible and apologized profusely for the debt collection agency. I was really shocked by this! I didn't think contacting a supervisor at the OC would have that much impact, but apparently it does. They even agreed to my payments and said they would take it off the credit report, but would put it back on the report if I failed to make a payment.

 

[Zigner]

Then tell me what the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act gives me the right to do if not to validate their claim that the debt is mine? I actually found a validation letter on a legal website that says under the act sec 809 (b), they must provide what the money I owe is for, explain and show how they calculated my debt, provide with copies that show I agreed to pay for the debt, provide verification or copy of judgement, identify the original creditor, prove the Statue of limitations hasn't run out, provide with license numbers and registered agent, provide with complete payment history on the account. Is this incorrect then? Because it is to my understanding that I have a right to validate within 30 days and receive this information. If not this information then what does validation mean? (Because I'm confused if you're saying that no it doesn't give me the rights listed in the previous post, what rights does it give me? In case I ever have to go through this mess again - which I hope is never!)

Read the FDCPA - it doesn't allow for all that stuff.

Anyways, I worked it out with a higher up at the OC. They actually told me that what the debt collector they hired was doing to me was illegal and that they would handle the case solely from now on. I was shocked by this, but I think they were afraid that the collection agency would be sued because they refused to validate (simply validate, within 30 days) and the fact that the agency supervisor threatened my parents. The OC even told me that they would work with me as much as possible and apologized profusely for the debt collection agency. I was really shocked by this! I didn't think contacting a supervisor at the OC would have that much impact, but apparently it does. They even agreed to my payments and said they would take it off the credit report, but would put it back on the report if I failed to make a payment.

Ever hear of "good cop/bad cop?"

 

[g2ny]

Read the FDCPA - it doesn't allow for all that stuff.



Ever hear of "good cop/bad cop?"

The OP was the attorney general of the state (in which, ironically, they have pending court cases against the collection agency they contracted) so I don't know if they play those games or not ??? I would hope not, but they might....

But, the FDCPA validates the debt within 30 days. Meaning I can write to the agency and ask them to validate/verify that the debt is mine, correct? I have been to so many legal websites and some of them say different things in which the FDCPA allows for. So, the FDCPA only allows me to have them validate that indeed the debt is mine. They do not have to provide any further information (such as account history). Is that correct?

 

[TigerD]

So, the FDCPA only allows me to have them validate that indeed the debt is mine. They do not have to provide any further information (such as account history). Is that correct?

This is a basically correct statement. The minimum required response to a validation request under the FDCPA is name and address of the original creditor. There may be a state law that requires more than that -- but for the FDCPA, that's it.

Some companies will provide more, but it isn't required.

DC