The Debt Collector...Wolpoff and Abramson

[Orty]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

In Sept 2004 we received a copy of an Award in favor of MBNA for an amount of $26,868.72 from the National Arbitration Forum. October 2004 we received another letter from the NAF stating that both parties have requested that the Award be vacated and the case be reopened and stayed. The NAF granted the request. This is because we signed a settlement agreement to make monthly payments of $360 until paid in full.

W/A called us in June and offered us a settlement of $15,900.00. We were not in a position to settle for that amount of money at that time. In August I came across the $15,900 to settle with them. When I called W/A they said that was a one time deal and they wanted the money in full now as the attorney's were not going to wait with us only making only $360 a month payments. They also said that in January we were suppose to call and make other arrangements to increase the amount we were paying. LIE!!! The Settle Agreement says we are to pay $360 until paid in full. Then I received a call and they said they would settle for $18,200 that the account had been charged off. I told them that $18,200 I couldn't do. When I got home from work there was a message on my phone that they were willing to settle for $15,900. I sent them a letter offering them a settlement of $13,000.00 with conditions like; "settled as agreed", Cease and Desist all collection activities, full and final settlement, remove all derogatory remarks,ect. They turned down my offer saying that my propsed payment would not pay the account within a reasonable time in view of the balance.
I just don't know what I can do at this point. I have the 15,900.00 to pay them, but I don't know if I should trust them. I don't know if I can send them a cease all communications letter since I already agreed to make payments to them and all the arbitration stuff has already happened. Out of the $360 we send to W/A - $172 is interest & Misc DB/CR and $188 is applied to principal. Can we go back to MBNA and see if they'll accept a settlement of the $15,900.00?
We are willing to settle on this account as long as we receive something in return as we are willing to work with them. Unlike a lot of other people.
Is this a mistake???
Any advice would be appreciated as we are not familiar with this kind of thing and we want to get this behind us and move on.
Is there anyone we can call and talk to?

[Debt Guy]

This is too important to mess up. You don't have the training to deal with these people.

Why don't you hire an attorney or a settlement professional to help you do this the right way?

[debtcollector`]

I concur ......

[ablessin]

Before you rush out and hire someone, try a debt counseling program first. You can google it on the internet, or look in your yellow pages. A local attorney "might" be willing to give you some contacts, as well, I don't know. It's worth a try. You can even say, if this doesn't work out, I will hire you, then they know you might become a paying customer.

The credit counseling agents are trained and can work with the creditor to get the account settled.

Were you contacted prior to 9/2004 when MBNA was awarded that money to you? It sounds like maybe MBNA or their collections firm was suing you and you should have been notified. If you were sued and not notified you might have recourse.

I also would not just go out and send them the $15G either. You want to be 100% certain that that payment is going to satisfy the debt and that they are NOT going to come after you for more!!!!!!!!

You need that in writing from them. If you can't find a local debt counseling agent, ask them for a letter in writing stating that once you pay $15.900 the account will be settled. Tell them that they will have the money within 5 business days if they send you that letter.

THEN, after those 2 options are exhausted hire someone.

[TuprBabe]

On that same suggestion about going on a debt consolidation/debt management program ...

I talked to the rude hateful woman that answers the phone at W&A last night (who claims to be a paralegal). I am getting my bills together to go on CareOne, and needed to know if the account numbers they had for me were the same so I could start making payments regularly and automatically.

Well, the rude hateful woman told me that since I have now informed W&A that I'm going on a debt management program, they will immediately take legal action against me. (In other words, if I try to make arrangements to pay them, they'll sue me. Makes perfect sense, if you're from some alternate reality.) I had been making payments to them previously on my own (after going over her head), and the ACTUAL LAWYER had no problem with it. I had another money crunch, and had to stop temporarily, but now that's behind me and I'm getting my debts taken care of.

I told the rude hateful woman that I remembered her from my previous phone calls to W&A, and that the people above her had no problem with me making payments. She said, "Well I'm just telling you now, we don't work with them and since you just told me you're going on debt management, we'll start legal action against you TODAY." (Mind you, it's Friday at 4:15pm EST.)

I called Great Seneca (who owns the account) back and spoke to a man (who also claims to be a W&A paralegal), and he had NO IDEA WHAT THE RUDE HATEFUL WOMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT. He verified all the info that I needed and told me that he would put a note in my file that they will settle for half of what I owe any time between now and a year from now. Apparently, "Rude Hateful Woman" thinks she runs everything at W&A and makes up the law and policies as she goes along. I told the man at Great Seneca that if I had not already been planning on doing debt management, Rude Hateful Woman's attitude alone would have steered me to bankruptcy, and then they wouldn't have gotten a dime. He agreed with me that when people call on their own to make payment arrangements, they should not be treated in a hostile manner -- I mean come on, if they're WANTING to give you money, and THEY'RE CALLING YOU, that's a GOOD THING, right?

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Orty

I have the 15,900.00 to pay them, but I don't know if I should trust them.

Your suspicions are correct. Do NOT trust them (or any other debt collector). Get ANY agreement in writing BEFORE you agree to anything. Do NOT tell them you have any money at all.

I don't know if I can send them a cease all communications letter since I already agreed to make payments to them and all the arbitration stuff has already happened.

You can certainly send them a C&D letter. They (WandA) have NOTHING to do with your agreement. They are a 3rd party. Tell them to 'fold their tent and go home'.

Out of the $360 we send to W/A - $172 is interest & Misc DB/CR and $188 is applied to principal. Can we go back to MBNA and see if they'll accept a settlement of the $15,900.00?

You can negotiate with the debt owner. If MNBA still owns it, then yes.

We are willing to settle on this account as long as we receive something in return as we are willing to work with them. Unlike a lot of other people. Is this a mistake???

Nope. You are doing this correctly.... however, I would be VERY reluctant to offer them any specific amount. Make up a story.... like your rich 3rd cousin has said that they MIGHT loan you some money to make this go away..... and start low. The first person who speaks.... usually loses. Let them argue you down.... or start low and go up.

[Ladynred]

I called Great Seneca (who owns the account) back and spoke to a man (who also claims to be a W&A paralegal),

That's because Wolpoff and Great Seneca ARE THE SAME COMPANY !!!

[Orty]

Jetx: thanks for your help. I have today received a letter from W/A that upon receipt of the above agreed amount of 15,900.00 you will be released from further obligation in this matter. What are your thoughts??? I have to send them a check tomorrow.

Originally Posted by JETX

Your suspicions are correct. Do NOT trust them (or any other debt collector). Get ANY agreement in writing BEFORE you agree to anything. Do NOT tell them you have any money at all.


You can certainly send them a C&D letter. They (WandA) have NOTHING to do with your agreement. They are a 3rd party. Tell them to 'fold their tent and go home'.


You can negotiate with the debt owner. If MNBA still owns it, then yes.


Nope. You are doing this correctly.... however, I would be VERY reluctant to offer them any specific amount. Make up a story.... like your rich 3rd cousin has said that they MIGHT loan you some money to make this go away..... and start low. The first person who speaks.... usually loses. Let them argue you down.... or start low and go up.

[dcatz]

I have to send them a check tomorrow.

No you don't. You went through this before and they came around. Give them a prompt reply but not a prompt payment until you know that you have an enforceable Release.

If you are prepared to pay the $15,900, let them know you're willing to do the deal, but you need to be fully covered. The kind of story suggested to you before will keep the offer open for a brief but adequate time. "I had access to the money and I can get it again in [fill in the blank] hours/days but I need . . . ."

You may have gotten an adequate Release and what you're quoting sounds a little "light".

The Release should recite the obligation being released. Account number/card number. Issuer. Party(ies) on the account and being released.

It should recite the consideration ($15,900) received and accepted in full and final settlement.

It was MBNA's account and you're paying W/A. It should recite that W/A has full and complete authority to release you.

If you want to add whistles and bells, you could include "successors, heirs (and go on and on)" but the specifics are the bare bones that you'll want.
You can Google "Mutual Release and Settlement" and find plenty of examples.

They may decide that they want it to be Mutual. Ok, as long as you get an original signature of a party authorized to release you, and the name and title should be printed and/or typed as well as signed.

That's not at all excessive. They'll be accustomed to it. If all of that is in the letter you have, you should be ok.