Duke Electric Bill $2600!

[inventor.x]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana

I moved to Indiana in 2006 and had Duke Energy hooked up. In 2008 I had a new all electric furnace installed. I had propane before. In 2012 Duke sent a request that I enroll in a Power Manager program that would reduce my electric bills. I enrolled. I noticed the difference the very next month and the bill steadily decreased from $300 + to $100+ to $20 to $10 for the next several months. So with the savings I was getting, I elected to generously send a monthly contribution of $10 to their "Helping Hand" program for the disadvantaged and the very poor to help with heating costs. I know it isn't much, but I'm on Social Security plus a small pension., but I do work part-time too, but not much pay.

Then this past December 2013, I got a whopping bill for $438.00 and called and complained but they said all were high as it was very cold. Then the Jan. 2014 bill was $465.00, and I just assumed it was because the weather is still near zero degrees here in Indiana. Then I opened my February bill and nearly fell over...$2600.00!!! I finally got to talk to a representative this morning and was informed my meter had been defective since Dec. 2012 and they replaced it in Nov. 2013 was why my bill was so high. I asked why they didn't catch it sooner. She said they didn't know if anyone was home when the meter reader came by. I asked, that with 2 or 3 vehicles parked there, they couldn't logically reason that anyone could be there and they couldn't even leave me a note on my door?? WTH? Now they claim I owe for the back charges of $2250.

It seems as though the same logic would apply if my local gas station sent me a bill claiming their pumps were defective and that I now owe them $2600 more for the gas I've been buying from them over the past year.

How is this my responsibility? I'm thinking about contacting my local TV news troubleshooter.

 

[You Are Guilty]

How is this my responsibility?

It's only yours if the meter was defective and if you used all the electricity they are claiming (how do they "know" how much you used if the meter was defective?)

The old Ostrich Method of dealing with weird bills (high or low) is rarely a good idea, if ever.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

The old Ostrich Method of dealing with weird bills (high or low) is rarely a good idea, if ever.

Doesn't the same hold true for the company?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana

I moved to Indiana in 2006 and had Duke Energy hooked up. In 2008 I had a new all electric furnace installed. I had propane before. In 2012 Duke sent a request that I enroll in a Power Manager program that would reduce my electric bills. I enrolled. I noticed the difference the very next month and the bill steadily decreased from $300 + to $100+ to $20 to $10 for the next several months. So with the savings I was getting, I elected to generously send a monthly contribution of $10 to their "Helping Hand" program for the disadvantaged and the very poor to help with heating costs. I know it isn't much, but I'm on Social Security plus a small pension., but I do work part-time too, but not much pay.

Then this past December 2013, I got a whopping bill for $438.00 and called and complained but they said all were high as it was very cold. Then the Jan. 2014 bill was $465.00, and I just assumed it was because the weather is still near zero degrees here in Indiana. Then I opened my February bill and nearly fell over...$2600.00!!! I finally got to talk to a representative this morning and was informed my meter had been defective since Dec. 2012 and they replaced it in Nov. 2013 was why my bill was so high. I asked why they didn't catch it sooner. She said they didn't know if anyone was home when the meter reader came by. I asked, that with 2 or 3 vehicles parked there, they couldn't logically reason that anyone could be there and they couldn't even leave me a note on my door?? WTH? Now they claim I owe for the back charges of $2250.

It seems as though the same logic would apply if my local gas station sent me a bill claiming their pumps were defective and that I now owe them $2600 more for the gas I've been buying from them over the past year.

How is this my responsibility? I'm thinking about contacting my local TV news troubleshooter.

I absolutely would contact the local TV news troubleshooter. Replacing your meter in November of 2013 might result in you seeing the kind of December and January electric bills that you have seen, but no where in heck could it ever be reasonable for your bill to jump from 465.00 to 2600.00. Like someone else said, if your meter was defective there is no way that they could know what you might or might not have owed.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Doesn't the same hold true for the company?

The legal term is "laches" and while generally it is an equitable doctrine and would require years of inactivity to be applicable, it can't hurt to make the argument.

The main issue is that OP was indisputably getting electricity the entire time, whereas the power company was not getting paid. So there is little "fairness" in shafting the electric company for at least their cost of the power supplied.

 

[LdiJ]

The legal term is "laches" and while generally it is an equitable doctrine and would require years of inactivity to be applicable, it can't hurt to make the argument.

The main issue is that OP was indisputably getting electricity the entire time, whereas the power company was not getting paid. So there is little "fairness" in shafting the electric company for at least their cost of the power supplied.

I am not disagreeing with you in general, but there is no way that the power company could have any idea how much power was actually used if their claim that the meter was defective is accurate. They claim that the meter was defective for an 11 month period. I don't think that even in an all electric home in Indiana, of the size the OP likely owns, (since the OP is living on disability) would even add up to the 2250.00 they claim is owed, and the OP HAS been paying an electric bill every month...its not like nothing has been paid. I even have my doubts a bit about the 400.00 plus bills they had to pay for December and January. The brutal cold didn't start here until January.

 

[Zigner]

I am not disagreeing with you in general, but there is no way that the power company could have any idea how much power was actually used if their claim that the meter was defective is accurate. They claim that the meter was defective for an 11 month period. I don't think that even in an all electric home in Indiana, of the size the OP likely owns, (since the OP is living on disability) would even add up to the 2250.00 they claim is owed, and the OP HAS been paying an electric bill every month...its not like nothing has been paid. I even have my doubts a bit about the 400.00 plus bills they had to pay for December and January. The brutal cold didn't start here until January.

It's simple math.

The meter says they used X. The meter was off by Y. Divide X by Y and then subtract what they already paid for and you have the amount still owing.

Simple Example: The meter was only reading 1/4 of the amount it should have been reading.
Customer used 100 units of power. 100 divided by .25 = 400. Customer paid for 100 units and still owes for 300 units,

 

[LdiJ]

It's simple math.

The meter says they used X. The meter was off by Y. Divide X by Y and then subtract what they already paid for and you have the amount still owing.

Simple Example: The meter was only reading 1/4 of the amount it should have been reading.
Customer used 100 units of power. 100 divided by .25 = 400. Customer paid for 100 units and still owes for 300 units,

I don't see how they could come up with that figure...I have studied my meter on multiple occasions and I don't see how they can tell how much the meter is off by...the only thing that measures the usage in the home is the meter itself. I see no way that they can know how much the meter was off by, because there is no where else that it's measured. Electricians aren't even permitted to pull meters in order to replace electrical boxes, without a electric company technician present to make sure that the meter is reinstalled properly, for that very reason.

 

[Zigner]

I don't see how they could come up with that figure...I have studied my meter on multiple occasions and I don't see how they can tell how much the meter is off by...the only thing that measures the usage in the home is the meter itself. I see no way that they can know how much the meter was off by, because there is no where else that it's measured. Electricians aren't even permitted to pull meters in order to replace electrical boxes, without a electric company technician present to make sure that the meter is reinstalled properly, for that very reason.

I don't know either...but they know. That's their job.

 

[LdiJ]

I don't know either...but they know. That's their job.

I just gave a quick call to the electrician who replaced my box a few years ago and he says that there is no way that they can know. There is no other measure but the meter. He says that they may be making an educated guess based on usage prior to the meter failing, but that is all that it would be, is an educated guess.

 

[Zigner]

You (and your electrician) don't seem to understand that they can TEST the old unit. They put through a known amount of power and see how far off the meter is. It's not rocket science Although, I may not know how to do it, I know how it's done.

 

[justalayman]

I just gave a quick call to the electrician who replaced my box a few years ago and he says that there is no way that they can know. There is no other measure but the meter. He says that they may be making an educated guess based on usage prior to the meter failing, but that is all that it would be, is an educated guess.

They can check the accuracy of the meter with little effort. Do you think they just guess when setting a meter and hope it is correct? Of course not. It can be tested for accuracy and all of them are, at least at the time of production.



what has to be known is if the meter was off a set percentage or if it was operating erratically. If it was off a set percentage, the amount not recorded can be calculated. The electric companies have the means to check a meter for accuracy (you best hope so because if they don't, how do you know your meter is accurate?, but yes, they actually do).


If the meter is operating erratically, there is no way to determine how much power was used but not paid for so all they could do is average the use and retroactively apply it to last years bills. They do account for the weather to some extent when they do this. I do not know their specific calculations but if you check your bill, many of them say something about average temps or "heating days" or some other notation that refers to a general need for heating.

The issue I see is; how did they determine it "went bad" at any specific time?

 

[Zigner]

They can check the accuracy of the meter with little effort. Do you think they just guess when setting a meter and hope it is correct? Of course not. It can be tested for accuracy and all of them are, at least at the time of production.



what has to be known is if the meter was off a set percentage or if it was operating erratically. If it was off a set percentage, the amount not recorded can be calculated. The electric companies have the means to check a meter for accuracy (you best hope so because if they don't, how do you know your meter is accurate?, but yes, they actually do).


If the meter is operating erratically, there is no way to determine how much power was used but not paid for so all they could do is average the use and retroactively apply it to last years bills. They do account for the weather to some extent when they do this. I do not know their specific calculations but if you check your bill, many of them say something about average temps or "heating days" or some other notation that refers to a general need for heating.

The issue I see is; how did they determine it "went bad" at any specific time?

Excellent point.

 

[justalayman]

You (and your electrician) don't seem to understand that they can TEST the old unit. They put through a known amount of power and see how far off the meter is. It's not rocket science Although, I may not know how to do it, I know how it's done.

correct and you are correct that it is not rocket science; it's magic. People turn a switch on and viola`, the lights get bright. How? Magic.

 

[justalayman]

I just gave a quick call to the electrician who replaced my box a few years ago and he says that there is no way that they can know. There is no other measure but the meter. He says that they may be making an educated guess based on usage prior to the meter failing, but that is all that it would be, is an educated guess.

so, how about this:

a second meter. I have meters I can use to calculate power used. I don't even have to hook it up to anything. It works by magic*

I noticed the difference the very next month and the bill steadily decreased from $300 + to $100+ to $20 to $10 for the next several months.

If those months where the power was down to $20-$10 were summer months and OP didn't use AC... well, regardless what super saver program you are on, that is a bill with no or almost no power used. The ostrich factor was strong with this one.


as to the power company not noticing it:

care to guess how many customers they have? and how many customers do not use a building all year long so there may be some no usage months. They usually aren't going to get all excited when a person's bill changes. It happens all the time for legitimate reasons. They do not have the means to "babysit" every customer and call them when their bill changes without any reason they are aware of.






*inductive pickups can appear to be magic to some people and I want them to just keep on thinking that. The less they know, the more I'm worth.