Enforcing Large Judgment

[lawscience]

State: CA

I am attempting to enforce a large (>100K) judgment against an individual. This is not a child/family/spousal support judgment. The judgment was initially obtained in Georgia, and subsequently domesticated in CA. I have spent many hours going through the CA Code of Civil Procedure sections related to enforcement of money judgments. I think I understand the basic options and procedures, but I could certainly use some help from an attorney. I would like to have a good attorney experienced in judgment enforcement processes to check everything and help make sure I don't make a big mistake. The debtor is a pretty slick customer.

I have done considerable research and I believe the individual has sufficient assets to pay. His home, even after all outstanding mortgages, other judgments, and the maximum exemptions, should still leave adequate equity to pay my judgment. There are other potential sources also.

Because of the size of this judgment and the apparent availability of funds, it does not seem fair to give away 35% to 50% (plus expenses) to an attorney. I would prefer to prepare most of the documents, and use an attorney for specifc consultations of strategy or process, document checking prior to submittal, and also represent me in court. I would like to pay by the hour, or negotiate a smaller percentage based on fair estimates of the amount of attorney work required. I am assuming that the paperwork and process is not significantly more difficult with a larger judgment, so the "normal" percentage seems high. Am I off base with this? Are there attorneys willing to work this way?

I will probably have some specific followup questions about the process, if someone here is knowledgable of the CA codes and procedures.

Thanks

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by lawscience

State: CA

I am attempting to enforce a large (>100K) judgment against an individual. This is not a child/family/spousal support judgment. The judgment was initially obtained in Georgia, and subsequently domesticated in CA. I have spent many hours going through the CA Code of Civil Procedure sections related to enforcement of money judgments. I think I understand the basic options and procedures, but I could certainly use some help from an attorney. I would like to have a good attorney experienced in judgment enforcement processes to check everything and help make sure I don't make a big mistake. The debtor is a pretty slick customer.

I have done considerable research and I believe the individual has sufficient assets to pay. His home, even after all outstanding mortgages, other judgments, and the maximum exemptions, should still leave adequate equity to pay my judgment. There are other potential sources also.

Because of the size of this judgment and the apparent availability of funds, it does not seem fair to give away 35% to 50% (plus expenses) to an attorney. I would prefer to prepare most of the documents, and use an attorney for specifc consultations of strategy or process, document checking prior to submittal, and also represent me in court. I would like to pay by the hour, or negotiate a smaller percentage based on fair estimates of the amount of attorney work required. I am assuming that the paperwork and process is not significantly more difficult with a larger judgment, so the "normal" percentage seems high. Am I off base with this? Are there attorneys willing to work this way?

I will probably have some specific followup questions about the process, if someone here is knowledgable of the CA codes and procedures.

Thanks

How much are you willing to pay a lawyer?

[lawscience]

I am willing to pay the going hourly rate for a good lawyer with the skills and knowledge I need. It is not only about the money. I guess I would prefer to manage things, and not turn the whole thing over to a law firm. I don't believe it is in my best interest to do that. I work with difficult regulations in my day job, so I have some ability to read and understand the law. I think I will have a better chance of success by teaming with an attorney who will work with me. I know it takes many hours to pull together information in preparing a submittal. I enjoy doing it and I would like to do this work as opposed to paying high hourly rates for someone else to do it. I have had some success preparing civil law documents before. In a recent issue, I prepared a detailed writeup for my attorney (in NY) to support a response and counter-claim, and when I got a copy of the filed document, it sure looked familiar. The original petitioner's complaint was dismissed, which was the goal.

OK, the short answer: I would be happy to pay $20K for someone to help me collect this judgment. For what I am looking for, I would think it could be done with way less than 100 hours lawyer time. But that is why I am here. Maybe my estimate is way off.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by lawscience

I am willing to pay the going hourly rate for a good lawyer with the skills and knowledge I need. It is not only about the money. I guess I would prefer to manage things, and not turn the whole thing over to a law firm. I don't believe it is in my best interest to do that. I work with difficult regulations in my day job, so I have some ability to read and understand the law. I think I will have a better chance of success by teaming with an attorney who will work with me. I know it takes many hours to pull together information in preparing a submittal. I enjoy doing it and I would like to do this work as opposed to paying high hourly rates for someone else to do it. I have had some success preparing civil law documents before. In a recent issue, I prepared a detailed writeup for my attorney (in NY) to support a response and counter-claim, and when I got a copy of the filed document, it sure looked familiar. The original petitioner's complaint was dismissed, which was the goal.

OK, the short answer: I would be happy to pay $20K for someone to help me collect this judgment. For what I am looking for, I would think it could be done with way less than 100 hours lawyer time. But that is why I am here. Maybe my estimate is way off.

I doubt that you will have any trouble finding a lawyer to work for you...especially in California where there are more lawyers than normal people.

Well, there aren't many normal people.

Let's say there are more lawyers than fireplugs.

[lawscience]

Thanks for the insight. I'm going to try to get some referrals through a research company I have been using in CA. Now for a specific question.

My judgment debtor is married, but the judgment is in his name only. CA is a community property state (naturally), and the CA law clearly says community property can be used to satisfy debt. The residence is titled in wife's name as her "separate property." I would think the family residence would automatically be "community property" regardless of how they choose to title it? Will my judgment prevent sale or additional financing on this property? Do "they" automatically search judgments against both spouses in a community property situation?

[Ladynred]

I would think the family residence would automatically be "community property" regardless of how they choose to title it?

Yes. If they BOTH live there, and he derives benefit from that residence, then its considered community property. For her to keep it as 'separate property' he/they could not live there. And, IF the house was purchased during the marriage, it's definitely community property.

Will my judgment prevent sale or additional financing on this property? Do "they" automatically search judgments against both spouses in a community property situation?

It will if you record a lien against the property, then it could NOT be sold until the lien was paid off. A lien will turn up in a title search.

Have you made any attempts to sieze this guy's bank accounts, garnish wages or sieze non-exempt property ?? You can get all the goods on his banking and assets thru a debtor's exam - haul him into court and he MUST answer or be in contempt. Heck, with a writ of execution you can send it to every bank in the area and the one who has his account will have to freeze the account.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by lawscience

Because of the size of this judgment and the apparent availability of funds, it does not seem fair to give away 35% to 50% (plus expenses) to an attorney. I would prefer to prepare most of the documents, and use an attorney for specifc consultations of strategy or process, document checking prior to submittal, and also represent me in court. I would like to pay by the hour, or negotiate a smaller percentage based on fair estimates of the amount of attorney work required. I am assuming that the paperwork and process is not significantly more difficult with a larger judgment, so the "normal" percentage seems high.

Then you have the option of learning how to do it yourself.

Originally Posted by lawscience

Am I off base with this?

Yes

Originally Posted by lawscience

Are there attorneys willing to work this way?

I am sure there are many attorneys willing to work for hourly pay. Let's see. You said the judgment was $100,000. The attorney bills for $200 hour it looks like your case will take about 500 hours to finish up.

Originally Posted by lawscience

I will probably have some specific followup questions about the process, if someone here is knowledgable of the CA codes and procedures.

I am sure there are a number of others on the board that do judgment enforcement. You could try the California Association of Judgment Professionals. You could try the NJN.

But, good luck getting somebody to do the work and not paid appropriately for it. My mechanic charges $80 an hour. His rate is $180 an hour if he has to teach while doing it or fix the mess made by someone that didn't know what they are doing. See the point?

DC

[lawscience]

Ladynred

And, IF the house was purchased during the marriage, it's definitely community property.

The house was purchased prior to marriage. However, I agree that it should be considered community property regardless of how it is titled. Hope we are correct.

It will if you record a lien against the property, then it could NOT be sold until the lien was paid off. A lien will turn up in a title search.

When I filed Abstract of Judgment, I believe it created a lien (CCP 697.310 (a)) on his real property in the county. My concern is that on record (deed), he does not own the property. He only "owns" it when community property is applied. Do title search companies know enough to search both spouses in a community property state, even if only one is on the deed?

Have you made any attempts to sieze this guy's bank accounts, garnish wages or sieze non-exempt property ?? You can get all the goods on his banking and assets thru a debtor's exam - haul him into court and he MUST answer or be in contempt. Heck, with a writ of execution you can send it to every bank in the area and the one who has his account will have to freeze the account.

I have one account number, and ready to hit it but before I do I want to have a clear strategy. One move like that will cause him to take actions to prevent it from happening again. I want to identify and hit as much as possible at the same time. He has businesses in Europe and Mexico, he could probably hide stuff pretty well. That's where the experienced attorney's advice would be good. Debtor's exam is not practicle for me to do, since it would have to be in CA 3000 miles away, and I understand there are frequent no-shows which are simply rescheduled. Again, I may ask an attorney to do it if he/she thinks needed or beneficial. I know this guy would not show unless he was threatened with being arrested. Garnish may not work well, he owns the company and writes his own checks. He currently claims he has no salary. I do have several bank names (from loans, lines of credit, divorce files) that I would also go after. I am trying to be thorough (I'm a regulatory compliance engineer), starting here (on this board) but will certainly get an attorney involved soon. I want to be as knowledgable as possible to talk to an attorney. I don't expect him/her to have to spend that much time teaching me.

New Question:

It appears that I can go after retirement accounts, though they are severely limited. CCP 704.115 (e) indicates that the retirement account is exempt up to the amount the debtor needs for retirement??? How does a court determine that one? Any ideas?

Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by lawscience

Ladynred



The house was purchased prior to marriage. However, I agree that it should be considered community property regardless of how it is titled. Hope we are correct.



When I filed Abstract of Judgment, I believe it created a lien (CCP 697.310 (a)) on his real property in the county. My concern is that on record (deed), he does not own the property. He only "owns" it when community property is applied. Do title search companies know enough to search both spouses in a community property state, even if only one is on the deed?



I have one account number, and ready to hit it but before I do I want to have a clear strategy. One move like that will cause him to take actions to prevent it from happening again. I want to identify and hit as much as possible at the same time. He has businesses in Europe and Mexico, he could probably hide stuff pretty well. That's where the experienced attorney's advice would be good. Debtor's exam is not practicle for me to do, since it would have to be in CA 3000 miles away, and I understand there are frequent no-shows which are simply rescheduled. Again, I may ask an attorney to do it if he/she thinks needed or beneficial. I know this guy would not show unless he was threatened with being arrested. Garnish may not work well, he owns the company and writes his own checks. He currently claims he has no salary. I do have several bank names (from loans, lines of credit, divorce files) that I would also go after. I am trying to be thorough (I'm a regulatory compliance engineer), starting here (on this board) but will certainly get an attorney involved soon. I want to be as knowledgable as possible to talk to an attorney. I don't expect him/her to have to spend that much time teaching me.

New Question:

It appears that I can go after retirement accounts, though they are severely limited. CCP 704.115 (e) indicates that the retirement account is exempt up to the amount the debtor needs for retirement??? How does a court determine that one? Any ideas?

Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions.

The sounds of silence you don't hear mean, "Go hire a lawyer."

[lawscience]

I intend to hire a lawyer.

I would prefer NOT to assign the judgment to a professional collection firm.

I am not sure what DC is saying? If I don't assign the judgment, and instead hire an attorney at whatever rate they ask for, then the attorney will be mad and pad the billing as revenge? Why is offering to pay for the hours worked being treated like an offensive idea? Going with the mechanic analogy, I do it all the time. If my car needs brakes, a muffler, or even a new head gasket, I tell the mechanic no thanks I will do it myself. If it needs a computer diagnostic or transmission rebuild or anything else I can't or don't want to handle, I say please do your thing, do a good job and I am happy to pay you for your skill. My mechanic seems perfectly OK with this. So, DC, no I don't see the point. Do you?

And as far as my attorney having to fix my screwups... It has more often been the opposite. I don't know much about court rules and procedures, but as far as making written arguments and describing facts, I can do it as well as most attorneys, and I can usually improve on what they prepare if it is a case that I am familiar with. Attorneys are trained in law but that does not make them ultimately intelligent. There is no substitute for experience, but law is not rocket-science, either.

I wasn't sure how technical this board would get. I thought there might be some down and dirty law talk. Maybe I will not learn the kind of details I am looking for here. Anyone know of a more technical board?

Hopefully I can find a lawyers who will provide consultation on collection matters.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by lawscience

I am not sure what DC is saying?

There are a number of judgement recovery professionals in California. Both attorneys and non-attorneys. It is a field that requires fair amount of education and experience. You can either pay for it by hiring someone or pay for it success of your enforcement.

The mechanic analogy was to point out that you can either hire the professional now or later. Now is usually cheaper.

DC

[maggyva]

I don't see that you need an attorney - all I see that you need is a private investigator and a plane ticket to CA, as you've already been awarded a judgment against the guy and placed a lien on his (community) property. So if you're tired of waiting for him to sell the property to get your money, you just take the Abstract of Judgment to the judge and request a Court Order to seize his bank accounts, or other non-exempt assets (as someone else pointed out). Call the clerk of the court; they will tell you how to do this.

If you're not sure where his bank accounts are located, that's where a private investigator can help you and it's much less expensive than hiring an attorney. Then after you know where his accounts are, you get the court order and then hire a professional service to serve the court order on ALL of those banks, and the guy will NOT know what hit him until he tries to use the accounts and they're empty! The reason for serving the order on ALL of his bank accounts is because he may have only $4000 in one account; $2000 in another, etc...but the order for $100,000 will be placed against ALL of the accounts and he will not be able to use any of the accounts ever again...(unless he's dumb enough to put more money into them, at which time the funds will be snatched up by the bank in a nano second).

Now, in addition to the judge giving you the Court Order, the judge will also issue an Order for a summons to the guy with a hearing date for him to appear and defend himself (due process). The hearing date is usually set within a couple of weeks. At the hearing, the judge will be in possession of any funds seized from the banks (the banks send the judge a check for whatever amount they were able to seize). If the guy shows up at the hearing but is NOT able to prove he doesn't owe you the money, the judge will give you the checks - or if the guy does NOT show, the judge will also give you the checks. However, if the guy shows and is able to prove he doesn't owe you the money, the judge will order the checks to be sent back to the banks and put back into his accounts.

The one thing I would NOT do is hire a collection agency, as the guy will just ignore their letters and you will be in the same position you're in now. And if you don't want to hire an investigator, an Order server, and buy yourself a plane ticket, then of course you can hire a CA attorney to do this for you...but just be sure to interview several attorney's and find one that will do it for either a FLAT FEE or a percentage of what he is able to collect vs. an hourly rate. AND, be sure you get any agreement with an attorney IN WRITING!

I hope this is helpful information. I just went through having my own bank accounts seized by a collection attorney, even though a lien was already on my property for the past 2 years, but the attorney got tired of waiting for me to sell my property. So I know this works. The only problem the attorney had in my case was that all of the funds in my bank accounts were FEDERAL funds and thus, exempt from levy so I just had to file an exemption and provide the judge with the facts, wherein the judge ordered the banks to return the money to my accounts. BUT - while the collection attorney didn't get his money now, the lien against my property remains.

There is one other thing I think you need to find out and that is whether the lien against the property will hold up, as I believe even in community property states, a married couple can have a pre-nuptial agreement that EXCLUDES certain property from being classified as 'community' property. I'm not certain whether this is possible in CA, but the clerk of the court may be able to tell you.