HELP! Hospital sending deceased wife's bills under my name.

[LurchUSA]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri.

At first I was getting bills from the hospital, under my wife as both the patient and guarantor. My attorney advised me to send back a form letter stating that she was deceased and under Missouri common law, I the spouse, are not libel for the debts. I am sure I did not sign any co-guarantor agreements as the only forms I did sign was consent for treatment, since my wife was unconscious and on a ventilator so I did not have much of a choice.

NOW I am getting the SAME bills returned to me with my name as the guarantor!!

As I am sure I did not sign any paperwork allowing this, how can the hospital just go and change the bill, putting my name on it and trying to make ME pay for the bill.

She was on Medicare and was also on my work PPO health insurance. So why I have to pay anything, with two insurances, is beyond me. Bloody frustrating, on top of my grieving for my lost wife and piecing my shattered life together this is the last fricking thing I need to deal with.

My wife at the time had her own income, through disability and owned her own car, which is a separate asset to mine, so I think the Doctrine of Necessities in Missouri does not apply, since there were separate assets/income.

Any advise/help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[justalayman]

So have you taken your wife's estate through probate? Her estate is liable for the debts and given she had money cars and whatever there might be money to pay the debt.

 

[LurchUSA]

So have you taken your wife's estate through probate?

No. Not as yet. Since she was on disability, she did not have any high value assets. Just personnel effects, clothing, ets. Besides I was not aware that I had to start a probate process. She did not have a will, as far as I am aware.

Her estate is liable for the debts and given she had money cars and whatever there might be money to pay the debt.

Her car I was able to re-title into my name, as in Missouri the surviving spouse has the right to transfer ONE vehicle belonging to the deceased spouse into their name without going through probate. So that does not leave much of an estate to draw upon.

My main concern is that I did not sign any paperwork, aside for permission to treat, that indicated that I would co-pay her bills. Yet the hospital still slapped my name on the bills without my knowledge of consent. I am sure what legal right they have to do that. I have contacted two debt lawyers, and they say that this can be a scare tactic to frighten me into paying without perusing the legality of that matter. Still, I'm shaken up. After paying funnel costs and having to live alone and miserable, I just don't need this.

Since we are talking around $100,000 in debt, that is something I just don't have lying around. This will clean me out financially, with debt to spare. Since I am already paying a mortgage and two personal loans, having this will be the straw that broke my financial camels back.

 

[single317dad]

Her car I was able to re-title into my name, as in Missouri the surviving spouse has the right to transfer ONE vehicle belonging to the deceased spouse into their name without going through probate. So that does not leave much of an estate to draw upon.

While you may have the right to do that, you may not have had first right to the asset. That is a question that will probably be answered by the court when the debt collector eventually sues you.

My main concern is that I did not sign any paperwork, aside for permission to treat, that indicated that I would co-pay her bills. Yet the hospital still slapped my name on the bills without my knowledge of consent.

Is this debt listed on your credit report? If it is, they've obtained your social security number somewhere. Given all the stress and confusion surrounding a hospitalization resulting in death, it would be quite understandable if you signed something you don't remember signing.

If they sue you, you'll have to defend yourself. That will require an attorney one way or another, whether a consumer debt specialist or a bankruptcy attorney.

 

[TigerD]

While you may have the right to do that, you may not have had first right to the asset.

Actually, yes. It does.

Is this debt listed on your credit report? If it is, they've obtained your social security number somewhere. Given all the stress and confusion surrounding a hospitalization resulting in death, it would be quite understandable if you signed something you don't remember signing.

Doesn't matter. Husband is on the hook for spouse's necessary medical treatment. He must file the insurance claims and handle the paperwork. While the Doctrine of Necessities in Missouri is a bit more complex than can be addressed here, the OP is more likely than not going to on the hook for any balance remaining after insurance.

TD

 

[cbg]

I will address the insurance situation only.

Many people assume that a secondary carrier will always pay any balances over and above what is paid by the primary carrier. That is not the case. It depends entirely on how the coordination of benefits sections are written. The fact that one of the carriers is Medicare complicates issues.

If you worked for my employer, your PPO would be the primary carrier, even though your wife has Medicare in her own name, unless you had retired and had the PPO as a retiree benefit (possible but unlikely). However, with other employers Medicare would be primary since it is in your wife's name and she is only a dependent on yours. But in either case, it is likely (not definite - I'd have to read both policies to be certain. But likely) that after the primary carrier made their payments, the secondary carrier would only be responsible for any balances that exceeds what they would have paid, had they been primary.

Let me give you an example. Suppose there is a bill for $100. The primary carrier, whichever it turns out to be in your case, pays $80. The secondary carrier reviews the bill and determines that had they been the primary carrier, they would also have paid $80. Under the terms of most COB clauses, they would not be responsible for any payment in that case.

On the other hand, suppose they determine that if they were primary, they would have paid $90. They would then be responsible to pay $10, leaving a balance of $10 that you are responsible for. ONLY if the secondary carrier would have paid the bill in full would they pick up the entire balance remaining after the primary carrier.

And then there are further complications given that you have a PPO, which limits the amounts you can be made responsible for if you are using an in network provider, but not if you are in a non-network facility.

Sounds to me like you need to find out exactly what was paid by which carrier (which you do by calling Medicare and your PPO provider Member Services - here's the link for http://www.medicare.gov/forms-help-and-resources/contact/contact-medicare.html but you'll have to find the Member Service number for your PPO yourself) and which one is definitely primary. You may want to enlist the help of the hospital billing office - they're often quite willing to help you sort these things out. Once you know what balances are permitted by each carrier, you'll be in a better situation to determine what your wife's estate may need to pay.

You have my sympathies on your loss.

 

[LurchUSA]

Is this debt listed on your credit report? If it is, they've obtained your social security number somewhere. Given all the stress and confusion surrounding a hospitalization resulting in death, it would be quite understandable if you signed something you don't remember signing.

Just going through all my credit reports and I don't see anything unusual. All things listed are for transactions I am aware of, but nothing relating to any hospital or collection agency.

 

[LurchUSA]

Many people assume that a secondary carrier will always pay any balances over and above what is paid by the primary carrier. That is not the case. It depends entirely on how the coordination of benefits sections are written. The fact that one of the carriers is Medicare complicates issues.

Indeed. With previous experience I found that Medicare HAS to be the primary, with my secondary Anthem Blue Cross having to be run after Medicare.

If my insurance is run first, they will deny the claim stating that my wife is already covered by Medicare. Then you have Medicare denying the claim, since as my wife was suffering from end stage retinal disease and that's how she qualified for Medicare, they have to be put as the primary insurance.

Finally my insurance is Anthem Blue Cross Choice and my wife was listed as a dependent only.

This is normally fine, but the hospitals ALWAYS put my insurance first, Medicare second, which results in BOTH insurances bouncing the claim, stating that the other is responsible. Then nothing gets paid and I get presented with a bill in the 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars.

I have contacted the hospital and informed them of this. They have reordered the insurance providers and are rerunning the bills with Medicare as primary. I just pray this reduces the bills down to something I can afford. At the moment I'm more or less broke, since I had to pay for all expenses for my wife's funeral and now trying to live on a single income.

Finally my insurance is Anthem Blue Cross Choice, with my wife listed as a dependent only.

 

[cbg]

With previous experience I found that Medicare HAS to be the primary,

Sorry, but that is just not true. It is more likely that Medicare is primary since few employers do what mine did and wrote the policy so that they are primary over Medicare as long as the employee is still actively working. But it is quite possible to have it be the opposite, and Medicare would prefer that more employers do it the way mine did. I'm not saying that on your old plan, or even on your current plan, Medicare is not primary; I'm saying that if your understanding is that on all plans Medicare must be primary, your understanding is wrong.

I do this for a living and have for 35+ years, btw.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri.

At first I was getting bills from the hospital, under my wife as both the patient and guarantor. My attorney advised me to send back a form letter stating that she was deceased and under Missouri common law, I the spouse, are not libel for the debts. I am sure I did not sign any co-guarantor agreements as the only forms I did sign was consent for treatment, since my wife was unconscious and on a ventilator so I did not have much of a choice.

NOW I am getting the SAME bills returned to me with my name as the guarantor!!

As I am sure I did not sign any paperwork allowing this, how can the hospital just go and change the bill, putting my name on it and trying to make ME pay for the bill.

She was on Medicare and was also on my work PPO health insurance. So why I have to pay anything, with two insurances, is beyond me. Bloody frustrating, on top of my grieving for my lost wife and piecing my shattered life together this is the last fricking thing I need to deal with.

My wife at the time had her own income, through disability and owned her own car, which is a separate asset to mine, so I think the Doctrine of Necessities in Missouri does not apply, since there were separate assets/income.

Any advise/help would be greatly appreciated.

LurchUSA,

I am so sorry for your loss...Blessings to you and your family. I hope you are able to resolve this insurance issue soon.

Again God Bless
Blue