Ladynred please read

[Amyoung4]

What is the name of your state?OH

you responded to my other post. I have a "few" questions.
On my credit report it shows under Providian Status:charge off, Activity: transfer/sold. Under portfolio Recovery It says: Factoring Company Account(Debt Purchaser).
SO, the court papers I got say: Portfolio Recovery Assignee Of Providian National Bank VS "ME".


Then it says:

Defendant
1.applied for an extension of credit. (I did but not with Portfolio- so how would I answer this- affirm or deny? I know u are not a lawyer, just wanting advice
2. Plaintiff is the holder of the debt incurred under the extension of credit and the party to whom the defendant is obligated to repay all amounts borrowed against the account. (Once again I made no agrement with Portfolio)

This debt was 3900 when Portfolio bought it, Bal of $5300 when I started pmts, now its at 4800- after 1400 worth of pmts

There are 3 more on the court papers, but my main concern/question is I thought the last pmt to the original creditor is what really matters when it comes to fighting these things, etc.

Also, when I do respond to the attorney, do I just rewrite the charges with my response to each? I know I have to file a copy in the court with in 3 days after I send to the attorney. Do I get it Notorized. I am totally lost on this whole thing. I guess if I dont respond Im admitting guilt and then they can proceed with garnishment, etc. Correct?As far as you know, Do they always proceed or just try to scare you into paying. ANy help in answereing these questions would be greatly appreciated. Have a nice night

[Ladynred]

SO, the court papers I got say: Portfolio Recovery Assignee Of Providian National Bank VS "ME".

PRS is NOT an 'assignee' of Providians, they are now the debt OWNERS and its been argued that claiming to be an assignee when they're not can be challenged as a falsehood.

1.applied for an extension of credit. (I did but not with Portfolio- so how would I answer this- affirm or deny? I know u are not a lawyer, just wanting advice

Then Deny it. You never applied for any credit with PRS and if that is exactly the way its written you can say no. However, they would argue that your credit card agreement says the terms go along to all 'successors and assigns'.. but you still didn't apply for credit with PRS.

2. Plaintiff is the holder of the debt incurred under the extension of credit and the party to whom the defendant is obligated to repay all amounts borrowed against the account. (Once again I made no agrement with Portfolio)

Again, this goes to that 'successors and assigns' terminology in all credit card agreements. I would answer this one as "Defendant is without sufficient information and leaves Plaintiff to his proof."

You have no PROOF of any kind that PRS is legally entitled to collect this debt.. have you seen any purchase agreement between Providian and PRS ?? No.. so you can't agree.. nor can you deny it.. you just don't know.

This process is a war of words and tactics, and you must use their tactics against them. In most cases, a lawsuit contains allegations that may be worded differently, but in essence is the same question. You have to be consistent.

This debt was 3900 when Portfolio bought it, Bal of $5300 when I started pmts, now its at 4800- after 1400 worth of pmts

Deny the amount they claim is owed. Do you have a complete, itemized accounting of how PRS arrived at that total they claim you owe ??? No.. so you cannot agree to that number when you don't know how they calculated it.

s I thought the last pmt to the original creditor is what really matters when it comes to fighting these things, etc.

That really only comes into play if the debt is outside the statute of limitations. In OH, that's argued to be 15 years, even though a credit card is NOT a written contract, that's the way judges in OH will generally rule, siding with their collection attorney cronies.

Here's some info on how to do your Answer:
[url]http://www.legalhelp.org/public/answering_complaint.php?PHPSESSID=94ebaeaebc1eacde77120e62eb0d44ca[/url]

[JETX]

I feel like one of the contestants on 'Family Feud'.
"Good answer!! Good answer!!"

I agree with most of your post!! Well done.

[Ladynred]

JETX- ROFL !!!

I don't even want to know what part you don't agree with

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Ladynred

I don't even want to know what part you don't agree with

Try "PRS is NOT an 'assignee' of Providians, they are now the debt OWNERS and its been argued that claiming to be an assignee when they're not can be challenged as a falsehood."

[Ladynred]

Ok.

From a legal dictionary source:

ASSIGNEE - A person or entity to whom an assignment of rights or property has been made. For example, a payee may assign his or her rights to receive the payments under a promissory note to a third person.

Assignees are either assignees in fact or assignees in law. An assignee in fact is one to whom an assignment has been made in fact by the party having the right. An assignee in law is one in whom the law vest's the right, as an executor or administrator.

So is PRS an 'assignee in fact' or an 'assignee in law' ?? PRS bought the debt, they own it and the credit agreement says 'successors or assigns'. I'm assuming then the 'assignment of rights' goes with the bill of sale ??

***Ummm.. I think I found the answer to my own question...

ASSIGNMENT - Transfer of a property right or title to some particular person under an agreement, usually in writing. For example, the payee may assign his or her rights to collect the note payments to a bank.

The proper technical words of an assignment are, assign, transfer, and set over; but the words grant, bargain, and sell, or any other words which will show the intent of the parties to make a complete transfer, will amount to an assignment.

Ok.. I think I get it. This 'assignee' vs. 'owner' is thrown back and forth on other forums, now I'll have to straighten them out too. I'm sure the confusion lies in people thinking that 'assignee' means they are NOT the owners. Same-o, same-o apparently.

[Amyoung4]

Ladyinred... If I understand this conversation correctly...PRS ARE Assignees??
SO, I just tpe out one page with my answers. Do i rewrite their claims, then respond to each? I just want to get this over with! Thanks for answering my posts

[Ladynred]

Format your Answer in the same way the complaint is formatted. Quote the allegation from the Complaint, then add your Answer to it.

Under the definitions of an 'assignee' and 'assignment', they are 'assignees' in that the debt was sold/transferred to PRS. However, suggesting that they'll 'talkn to Providian" is deceptive, Providian sold it to PRS and washed their hands of it.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Ladynred

However, suggesting that they'll 'talkn to Providian" is deceptive, Providian sold it to PRS and washed their hands of it.

I don't see where you get that.
From the original post: "Portfolio Recovery Assignee Of Providian National Bank".

As an 'assignee' of Providian... they can "talk" with them all they want.

[Amyoung4]

JETX...The lawyer said he wanted me to fax my check stubs to him so he can send them to Proividian to come up with a pmt.... why would he need to talk with them, they no longer own the account PRS does. I guess they see I cant come up with a lump sum down, so they are more willing to negotiate. AT this point in time I'll take my chances through the court I guess..

[Ladynred]

Where do I get that ??

Providian SOLD the debt to PRS. PRS says they are the OWNERS of the debt. PRS is a known debt BUYER. Providian will get nothing from any payments to PRS, only PRS will get any money. So, to say they're 'talking' to Providian regarding accepting payments or settlements is hogwash. Providian has no further interest in the account at all.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Amyoung4

JETX...The lawyer said he wanted me to fax my check stubs to him so he can send them to Proividian to come up with a pmt.... why would he need to talk with them, they no longer own the account PRS does.

Again, where do you get the 'opinion' that Providian no longer owns this debt??
Your own post says that the lawsuit was filed as "Portfolio Recovery Assignee Of Providian National Bank".

As for Ladynred:
"Providian SOLD the debt to PRS."
Again, where did you get that?? There is NOTHING in this thread to support that assumption.
If you are relying on: "On my credit report it shows under Providian Status:charge off, Activity: transfer/sold."
That is CRA-shorthand. The debt MAY have been transferred (assigned) or sold. The fact that the lawsuit says ASSIGNEE... tells me it was ASSIGNED and not sold.

If you are relying on: "Under portfolio Recovery It says: Factoring Company Account(Debt Purchaser)."
Though this COULD imply that the debt was sold... it could also have just been assigned to PRS for collection.

The ONLY way to find out who actually owns this debt at this point, is to have the debt validated..... as allowed by the FDCPA or subpoena.

PRS says they are the OWNERS of the debt.

Sorry, I have re-read this thread twice now... and simply do NOT see such a statement. Where are you getting that?

PRS is a known debt BUYER.

First, who is PRS?? Do you mean PRA (Portfolio Recovery ASSOCIATES)??
If so, this is from their (PRA) website:
"Portfolio Recovery Associates (NASDAQ:PRAA) with its wholly owned subsidiaries is a full service provider of outsourced receivables management and related services. PRA purchases, collects and manages portfolios of defaulted consumer receivables and provides collateral location and skip tracing services for credit originators including banks, credit unions, consumer and auto finance companies and providers of goods and services, as well as performing revenue processing, collection, auditing, and revenue discovery work for governments. Whether you are a customer whose account is owned or managed by us or a client who has sold or placed accounts with us, you can depend on being treated fairly and professionally by dedicated, well trained and responsive people."
[url]http://www.portfoliorecovery.com/[/url]

Providian will get nothing from any payments to PRS, only PRS will get any money.

Again... there is NOTHING in this thread to support your assumption.

So, to say they're 'talking' to Providian regarding accepting payments or settlements is hogwash. Providian has no further interest in the account at all.

Assumed.

Amy, the ONLY way to find out who is who... and what rights they have, if any, is to subpoena THEIR records.
Then, review the records you receive to make sure they have the right to sue and that the amount they claim is correct.

[Ladynred]

Your own post says that the lawsuit was filed as "Portfolio Recovery Assignee Of Providian National Bank".

Yah.. and ALL of the junk debt buyers refer to accounts they've bought this way. I've seen enough of them, personally, that I KNOW were PURCHASED by the JDB and were in no way simply 'assigned' the account by the original creditor. I've gotten enough letters from JDBs, INCLUDING Portfolio Recovery, that clearly states that they PURCHASED THE ACCOUNT they were after. They all referred to themselves as 'assignees' of the original creditor when they clearly were NOT 'assigned' anything as an outsourced collection.

My OPINION is based on personal experience.. and with this specific junk debt buyer no less. I never had dealings with Providian, they've always been scummy.

First, who is PRS?? Do you mean PRA (Portfolio Recovery ASSOCIATES)??

Well excuse me.. I made a boo-boo. Same dirtbags.

[Amyoung4]

JETX- Right on my crdit report under PRA, it says DEBT PURCHASER- no assignee or anything else. I also had another post that states my situation.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Amyoung4

JETX- Right on my crdit report under PRA, it says DEBT PURCHASER- no assignee or anything else. I also had another post that states my situation.

Then go for it. I really don't care if your suit "fly's" or not.