Money Order Cashed then Stop Payment issued

[Paduran2]

California

Hello Friends,

I need some advice. Today I went to a local store for a soda and was approached by a man who claims that I owe him $500 for a bad check. I walk with him back to the front of the store and up to his western union/ cash checking station that is located in the front corner of the store. He insist I owe him $500 and shows me a western union money order that I cashed with a stop payment on it. The handwriting is mine so I know I cashed it but my question is do I really owe this person money. I mean shouldn't he go after the person that bought the money order and gave it to me? And I was under the impression that money orders were as good as cash.

Thank you for any help.

 

[Zigner]

California

Hello Friends,

I need some advice. Today I went to a local store for a soda and was approached by a man who claims that I owe him $500 for a bad check. I walk with him back to the front of the store and up to his western union/ cash checking station that is located in the front corner of the store. He insist I owe him $500 and shows me a western union money order that I cashed with a stop payment on it. The handwriting is mine so I know I cashed it but my question is do I really owe this person money. I mean shouldn't he go after the person that bought the money order and gave it to me? And I was under the impression that money orders were as good as cash.

Thank you for any help.

Of COURSE he can go after you for it.

 

[tranquility]

Look to all of the UCC at article 3. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3)

§ 3-415. OBLIGATION OF INDORSER.

(a) Subject to subsections (b), (c), and (d) and to Section 3-419(d), if an instrument is dishonored, an indorser is obliged to pay the amount due on the instrument (i) according to the terms of the instrument at the time it was indorsed, or (ii) if the indorser indorsed an incomplete instrument, according to its terms when completed, to the extent stated in Sections 3-115 and 3-407. The obligation of the indorser is owed to a person entitled to enforce the instrument or to a subsequent indorser who paid the instrument under this section.

(b) If an indorsement states that it is made "without recourse" or otherwise disclaims liability of the indorser, the indorser is not liable under subsection (a) to pay the instrument.

(c) If notice of dishonor of an instrument is required by Section 3-503 and notice of dishonor complying with that section is not given to an indorser, the liability of the indorser under subsection (a) is discharged.

(d) If a draft is accepted by a bank after an indorsement is made, the liability of the indorser under subsection (a) is discharged.

(e) If an indorser of a check is liable under subsection (a) and the check is not presented for payment, or given to a depositary bank for collection, within 30 days after the day the indorsement was made, the liability of the indorser under subsection (a) is discharged.

 

[Paduran2]

Welll thank you everyone for the quick responses.

However now I have another question.
This money order has a agent name, date and location id on it.
Is there anyway for me to use this information to find this person who paid me with this money order?
Its apparent to me now that they, the person who paid me with the money order originally, did this to scam me. since they knew they would process a stop payment as soon as they gave me this money order.
I would just like to hold the original party accountable, because now either this western union or I are going to be out $500 and from what I've gotten so far it seems it is going to be me.

 

[single317dad]

Did this scam involve Craigslist or a Nigerian prince?

Why did you accept a Western Union payment from someone you don't know?

If you feel you've been scammed, you should call the police.

 

[Paduran2]

Thank you for the insult single317dad, although it didnt really answer my serious question. Is this how you interact with other people? This might be the reason your a SINGLE dad hahaha.

To anyone else who can answer my question further, thank you for your time.

 

[Zigner]

Thank you for the insult single317dad, although it didnt really answer my serious question. Is this how you interact with other people? This might be the reason your a SINGLE dad hahaha.

To anyone else who can answer my question further, thank you for your time.

Since you decided to be rude to a senior member who was helping you (without insulting you), you can go on your own. Good day.

 

[single317dad]

Thank you for the insult single317dad, although it didnt really answer my serious question. Is this how you interact with other people? This might be the reason your a SINGLE dad hahaha.

To anyone else who can answer my question further, thank you for your time.

Those were legit questions.

Good day, sir.

 

[Paduran2]

I don't know but asking me If I was a victim of the Nigerian price scam (the one that has been around since AOL dail-up) kind of seems, although possibly unintentionally, to be an attack on my intelligence and common since.

And I still don't see the relevance of " Craigslist or Nigerian prince scam" since I was asking if there was a way to track down the this other party using the information on the money order.

Anyways my apologizes to you single317dad for my remark, it was uncalled for. Perhaps you understand how subjective reading things online can be.


Good Day to you Sirs

 

[Zigner]

I don't know but asking me If I was a victim of the Nigerian price scam (the one that has been around since AOL dail-up)...

It's been around much longer than that.

 

[Mark Maroon]

And I still don't see the relevance of "Craigslist or Nigerian prince scam" since I was asking if there was a way to track down the this other party using the information on the money order.

The question was a reasonable one and not an insult to your intelligence. I believe that the question was directed at how you came to be in possession of the Western Union money order that had a stop payment order placed on it. Since you apparently do not personally know the person who gave it to you, there is a high probability that the whole thing was a scam. But what type of scam can be important.

For instance, the Craigslist and Nigerian prince scams are what are known as "advance fee scams". They work as follows: Based on the victim's anticipation of a larger payment, the victim wires the scammer money by Western Union. In the case of the Craigslist scams the victim often believes that they have already received the larger payment because the scammer sent them a valid looking check that they deposited into their bank account. The problem is, that once the victim sends money to someone else via Western Union, it is GONE. There is no way for the victim to stop payment or contest payment or get a refund or sue or anything else. The victim's money is GONE. Only a few weeks later does the victim's bank tell them that the valid looking check that the scammer sent them was a fraudulent check. But too late, the victims money was GONE the moment they sent it to the scammer by Western Union.

But your scam is apparently a little different. In your scam, someone sent YOU a Western Union money order. I don't know if this "money order" is the same thing as simply sending money to someone else via Western Union, or if this is something slightly different. I don't have an answer to your question of whether or not Western Union has any information on who sent you the Western Union money order. I suggest calling Western Union and asking them about it.

 

[single317dad]

But your scam is apparently a little different. In your scam, someone sent YOU a Western Union money order.

This is an updated version. The scammer sends the mark some form of payment, a check or money order. The payment is for some item about 20-60% of the value of the payment. The additional funds are to cover someone to move the item and a little extra for the mark's trouble.

The mark is to arrange pickup with Moving Company XYZ (who is in on the scam). Mover picks up the item and takes payment in cash only. Sometime soon after, the mark learns the financial instrument received from the scammer was either fake, payment stopped, or otherwise fraudulent.

So, say the mark receives $500. Item value is ~$200. Mover charges ~$150. Mark is out $150 and an item. Scammer and mover split the $150 and scammer gets the item. If the scammer is overseas (likely), they'll have the mover drop it at an auction house.

My original advice stands; call the police.

 

[Paduran2]

Thank you for the Information. And again my apologies for the other day.

So let me clarify my situation a little more.
I cashed the money order over 1 1/2 years ago, I think it was for a pc I sold, so Im not the one out of money currently but this man from the western union insist I owe him, that I have committed a crime and that he could call the police.
My next question is why didnt he call the police in the first place or turn this bad money order in the DA when it first got returned?
I plan on speaking wit the police today and making a report.

 

[Zigner]

Whoa, slow down there. There is nothing for YOU to report at this point. The ball is in the Western Union guy's court at this point. Wait it out a bit. Or, be proactive. Tell the Western Union guy that you are unaware that there was any stop-payment and ask for more proof.

 

[single317dad]

I was unaware (sorry if I missed it) that the money order was cashed 18 months ago. That changes things quite a bit.

This man obviously knows you, if he knows this was your bad money order from that long ago. That certainly begs the question: why hasn't he done anything about this yet?

Zigner is right: back up a step and verify the whole situation before you do anything. PC 476a appears to require intent, so I wouldn't fret much about his threat.