Old Debt being collected Cant get verification -WV

[DebtHelp]

What is the name of your state? West Virginia (Lived here all my life)

I had a credit card that was charged off in 2003. I was 30 days past due as of 9-2002 and I got this information from a credit report as of 2004. I started receiving collection calls at some point in 2003 and was willing to get the balance taken care of within reasonable means.

I had talked with the collections department and made an arrangement to set up a payment plan. I started sending in $100 a month for a period of 4 months. About 3-6 months later the checks were all returned as being undeliverable. I called the company and they couldn't pull up any information. Eventually, I got someone who looked into my issue and I found out that the Associates Credit Cards (Who my card was with) was purchased by them (CitiCards) at some point in early 2000. Collections efforts were handled by them for a period of time, but the decision was made to write off all pervious debts and all accounts were sold to collection agencies and that is most likely why my payments were returned.

I never heard from a collection agency about the account for quite a few years, and had no idea with whom to setup a payment plan with since Citi had no record of my account.
In 2004 I checked my credit report and found that the amount listed was much higher than my original balance (by almost 1500) so I filed a claim with one of the three Credit bureaus. The credit bureau did not get validation of the debt and it was removed from my report in 2005 for all of the big 3 agencies, still no calls from a collection agency. I have the email about the report, but I didn't realize that it was a page that was only available for a short period of time. I don't have a way to look at it any longer, so I don't know what exactly it said. (Can I call up the agency and get a copy of it?)

Anyways, I forgot about the debt up until some point last year when I received a call about the account. I told them over the phone about the claim I filed with the credit bureau and that I wanted verification of the debt and she was really nice and said she would look into what she had and mail it, didn't hear anything from them.

Then at the end of last year I got a call from Midland Credit Management about the debt and I told them the same thing. I heard back from another woman from the agency that said they were putting my debt back on my credit report and I again told them I wanted verification for the debt.

I just received a letter from a collection attorney that has an office in my state. It is my understanding that they will probably sue me in the next couple weeks, but the letter just says they received my account and are collecting on behalf of Midland Credit Management, but nobody has reviewed my account from their agency yet. I am again going to try to get verification for the debt, but would like to know if they can sue before sending the verification. Also I don't have a problem setting up some sort of payment once I get the account verified and corrected, I just don't want to be taken to court for the amount that was incorrect.

Any Ideas? Statue of Limitations come in to play here if I am taken to court?

Thanks for any help.

[debtcollector`]

OP ignore Bearcreek -- he is not partially wrong but completely and totally wrong. If fact it has been some time since I have seen advice here that was as wrong with being deliberately incorrect.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

1st: You need to put your request in writing that you are disputing the debt. Over the phone, there is no record of your request and they don't have to legally do anything. After receiving your request in writing they have so many days to respond.

The CA doesn't HAVE to do anything legally at any time and there is no time frame restricting the CA. The law gives the consumer (that's you) 30 days. If you dispute within 30 days of first contact, then the CA must cease collections until they validate the debt, which means calling the OC and asking: "Does John Smith owe the money?" I have never heard of an OC that said no. Then they have to send you the name and addy of the OC and the game is back on. If you request validation outside the 30 days ... good luck, you may never get validation and have no recourse.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

If they can't produce proof that you owe the bill within that amount of time, they cannot legally sue you.

Bull crap. Prove it. Again, the CA has no time limit on validation. And the FDCPA places NO restrictions on an entity's right to pursue resolution through the courts.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

When making the request, ask for the 1st date of delinquency with the original company. Keep copies of all of your requests and make sure to send them certified so you can prove they received your request.

1. The CA doesn't care when you were first delinquent. You are wasting your breath and proving they need to play hardball with you. You do not want them playing hard ball.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

2nd: I learned that you never acknowledge that you owe money to any creditor. It is up to them, once you have requested in writing, to prove this is a valid debt you owe.

The only acknowledgment that matters in debt collection is written or a payment.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

You stated that your bill had been charged off? Once you admitted to that next collection agency that you owed the money and made payment arrangements, that totally re-opened up your old debt and started the date all over again. They are now able to collect, because you admitted that you in fact owed the money.

As a collector I don't care if you admit anything. Just grab your checkbook. And we certainly don't need the debtor's permission to collect against them. This is noise and dangerous because it implies that there are legal restrictions and requirements on both the debtor and CA that do not exist.

Originally Posted by Bearcreek inc

Every time you make an arrangement or payment on a debt the date gets updated to the last activity associated with that debt.

That is because it is the last activity associate with the account. You try to make sound dastardly but it is simply common sense. The last time I put gas in my truck was the last time I put gas in my truck -- whether you want to admit it or not.

OP:
The SOL is an affirmative defense. It only exists if you raise it - and raise it properly. If you are considering a court battle I strongly encourage you to discuss this with an attorney.

DC

[DebtHelp]

Debtcollector,

Thanks for your reply. I want to get validation of the debt, which was my main issue from the start of this way back in 2004. If this is a debt that I owe, I have no problem taking care of this issue. My concern is being taken to court before the debt is validated. Can this be done if I request it in writing within the 30 day period? Also, what can a collection agency send that legally proves that the debt is mine and the amount is correct?

If they send me the name and address of the original creditor, charge off amount, current amount, and account number, does that legally prove anything in court? My issue is how does that prove the amount is correct? I only plan on using the SOL defense if taken to court before the validation.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

Debtcollector,
Thanks for your reply. I want to get validation of the debt, which was my main issue from the start of this way back in 2004. If this is a debt that I owe, I have no problem taking care of this issue.

You started in your first post that it was your debt - you just didn't want to pay the interest that has accumulated.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

My concern is being taken to court before the debt is validated. Can this be done if I request it in writing within the 30 day period?

Separate issues. If you request validation and have proof that it was received within 30 days and the CA sues you, you can sue them under the FDCPA - the max award is $1,000. But, it won't affect the debt.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

Also, what can a collection agency send that legally proves that the debt is mine and the amount is correct?

A collection agency CAN send you any media they have on an account. But they won't. They don't have to. You can request anything you like during discovery - but you aren't going to get it until that happens.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

If they send me the name and address of the original creditor, charge off amount, current amount, and account number, does that legally prove anything in court?

Depends on the court.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

My issue is how does that prove the amount is correct? I only plan on using the SOL defense if taken to court before the validation.

From what you have posted I think it is the interest that is bothering you and not that you have to pay the original debt. Fine. That's fair enough. If so, here is how I would advise handling it.

Call the attorney. Tell him that you you would like to settle the account but have some concerns about the amount of interest. You would be happy to settle in full for X dollars today, or discuss a different amount if he would provide an accounting of the interest.

The debt is borderline OOS. He could make a case that it is in stat based on your payments, which do not have to be accepted to restart the SOL in WV. You can make the case that is out of stat based on the original date since the payments were returned un-cashed. Personally, I'd save the SOL argument for court and stretch negotiations out if you plan to not pay.

DC

[DebtHelp]

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

You started in your first post that it was your debt - you just didn't want to pay the interest that has accumulated.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear. Its not the interest that I am disputing, but the charged off amount. What was listed on my credit report from the OC and what was previously discussed with me from the OC collection department is 1500 off.

My understanding is when the OC writes off the account, it stops earning interest. It is the CA that can add interest to that account, but thats not what I have a problem with. The credit listing from the OC was incorrect in my views and I disputed the item with the CRA to get verification of the debt, and hopes to find out who currently owned it.

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

A collection agency CAN send you any media they have on an account. But they won't. They don't have to. You can request anything you like during discovery - but you aren't going to get it until that happens.

I am asking what can they send you when you send a debt validation letter to prove the debt is yours and correct?

[spieler]

First and foremost don't take debt collection advice from a debt collector!
Your debt has more than likely been bought by Midland for pennies on the dollar.
They more than likely have no more proof of your debt than a name, an address and an account number with a balance.
The strategy is to serve you and hope you don't answer.
My advice would be to not worry about validation, but write to the lawyer and ask him for:
1. Copy of the signed agreement between you and the original creditor showing that the contract was able to be assigned
2. Copy of each transaction showing what was purchased, the date it was purchased, and the signature of the one who purchased it.
3. Copy of the assignment from the original creditor to you showing your name on it.
4. Copy of any and all statements showing late charges, interest accrued, collection fees etc.
5. Copy of any judgment if applicable.
6. Proof that the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account.

Make sure to get a copy of an agreement with your signature on it.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

Sorry, I think you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear. Its not the interest that I am disputing, but the charged off amount. What was listed on my credit report from the OC and what was previously discussed with me from the OC collection department is 1500 off.

My understanding is when the OC writes off the account, it stops earning interest.

Your understanding is wrong.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

It is the CA that can add interest to that account, but thats not what I have a problem with. The credit listing from the OC was incorrect in my views and I disputed the item with the CRA to get verification of the debt, and hopes to find out who currently owned it.

Great but not relevant to the immediate issue - which is resolving the account.

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

I am asking what can they send you when you send a debt validation letter to prove the debt is yours and correct?

They don't have to prove anything to you. All they have to send in the name and address of the OC.

Regarding Spieler's post -- They are not obligated to do any of what he says. And they will simply sue you. He's a moron for even posting that nonsense.

DC

[DebtHelp]

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

Your understanding is wrong.


Great but not relevant to the immediate issue - which is resolving the account.


They don't have to prove anything to you. All they have to send in the name and address of the OC.

Regarding Spieler's post -- They are not obligated to do any of what he says. And they will simply sue you. He's a moron for even posting that nonsense.

DC

Resolving the account is not the immediate issue if they are trying to collect an incorrect balance. Interest aside, if the principle that is being collected is incorrect, how is a debt collector legally able to bind you to that amount? That is what I had tried to do since late 2004.

If nobody contacts you about the debt, and it is no longer on your credit report, how do you expect someone to go about doing so? I had heard nothing about this account from 2003 until late 2007 and if they can validate the debt, I’ll pay it

[debtcollector`]

I think you misunderstand what validation is. All that is required for validation is the name and address of the original creditor.

It seems that you are saying you will pay it when the court issues a judgment against you. I hope you are able to resolve it before then. And wish you luck regardless.

DC

[DebtHelp]

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

I think you misunderstand what validation is. All that is required for validation is the name and address of the original creditor.

Well thank you for your information DC, but I received a call back from a lawyer that I left a message for earlier today. He pointed me to some interesting information that is found on both Government and State websites. The thing I found that I would like to post for everyone proves your comment incorrect and oddly enough, you have a link to the same information in your sig.

[url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.shtm[/url]

This information is found under § 809. Validation of debts

I bolded the information for you:

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within
the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original credi-
tor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt,
or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector
obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt
collector. Collection activities and communications that
do not otherwise violate this title may continue during
the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the
consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the
debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original creditor.
Any collection activities and communication during the
30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with
the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or
request the name and address of the original creditor

But again, that is only if requested in the DV sent to the CA. There is some other stuff that he pointed me to and sent to my email, but he advised me to stay away from sites like this until the matter is settled. I'll be back after I meet with him and after this issue is taken care of to give everyone an update.

Thanks everyone who replied

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

The thing I found that I would like to post for everyone proves your comment incorrect and oddly enough, you have a link to the same information in your sig.

[url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.shtm[/url]

This information is found under § 809. Validation of debts

I bolded the information for you:

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within
the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the
debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original credi-
tor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt,
or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector
obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt
collector. Collection activities and communications that
do not otherwise violate this title may continue during
the 30-day period referred to in subsection (a) unless the
consumer has notified the debt collector in writing that the
debt, or any portion of the debt, is disputed or that the consumer
requests the name and address of the original creditor.
Any collection activities and communication during the
30-day period may not overshadow or be inconsistent with
the disclosure of the consumer’s right to dispute the debt or
request the name and address of the original creditor

You overlook the phrase. The next phrase in the sentence is the one that most CAs act on. "or name and address of the original creditor, is mail to the consumer..." The problem here is that or means either/or and most people tend to read as in addition to.

But good luck with your issue. Please keep us posted.

DC

[DebtHelp]

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

You overlook the phrase. The next phrase in the sentence is the one that most CAs act on. "or name and address of the original creditor, is mail to the consumer..." The problem here is that or means either/or and most people tend to read as in addition to.

But good luck with your issue. Please keep us posted.

DC

Nothing against you, but incorrect again. This is coming directly from what my debt cellector lawyer has said after our meeting today. The CA has to legally send two things if requested in writing whithin 30 days of their first letter: Original address and name of original creditor and Copy of item used for validation or copy of judgment if one was filed, but only has to send the information if requested by the debtor.

The code is written as a "chose one out of three" type of multiple choice and the CA only has to send what the consumer requested.

If in the debt validation letter the consumer only request validation of the debt, then this line applies:

obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor

If in the debt validation letter the consumer request the original creditor name/address and validation of debt, then this line applies:

obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor

lastly, if in the debt validation letter the consumer request the original creditor name and address only, then this line applies:

obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment,
or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy
of such verification or judgment, or name and address of
the original creditor

Then the requested information is mailed to the customer.

[spieler]

I'm glad to see you got an attorney. The debt guy is a debt collector and only telling you what debt buyers want you to hear. He won't tell you that debt buyers rarely have proof of the debts they bought. He told you that you have to raise the defense of Statute of Limitation. He didn't tell you that you have an action against the collector for suing or threatening to sue on a out-of- statute debt.
Your attorney will be able to help you and here's hoping you sue the SOB if the debt is beyond the statute of limitations.

[Chien]

He didn't tell you that you have an action against the collector for suing or threatening to sue on a out-of- statute debt. Your attorney will be able to help you and here's hoping you sue the SOB if the debt is beyond the statute of limitations.

I don’t agree with the OP’s attorney’s interpretation of Sect. 809(b). It’s contrary to statutory construction in general and inconsistent with the construction of the remainder of the Act. It’s also inconsistent with the ruling in the key case to define “validation”. However, the 4th Circuit is notoriously rigorous in its interpretation of the Act, and I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility that there is some supportive WV case law. If there is, don’t suppose that it translates broadly to other jurisdictions.

You, on the other hand, are simply a wealth of misinformation. Post #6 is likely to evoke a little chuckle from any lawyer or collector, and that may be the reason that DC didn’t even bother to respond.

Aside from that, there are only three states where it is illegal to sue on a debt out of statute. Would you like to guess which they are? You really should, if you’re going to chime in, because WV isn’t one of them and, in WV, suit can be filed and an expired SOL is an affirmative defense. DC’s statement is correct.

No guessing or did you just not bother to look at the OP’s state? Well, I don’t want to bother to come back for your sake, so they’re CA, WI & MS. Thanks for playing. Pick an easier category next time.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by DebtHelp

The code is written as a "chose one out of three" type of multiple choice

That is correct -- but it is the CAs choice, not the consumers.

DC

Regardless, good luck to you. I'm done on this thread.