Old DEBT, NO PROOF

[mrrogers92562]

I have a question. Supposedly I signed for someone to go to the emergency room at a hospital in the year 1999. Now im getting hassled for the bill. I asked the debt collector to send me proof that I signed to be guarentor. He responded by saying that if I pay the bill I can have all the proof I needed. Do I have to worry about this considering it was so long ago, and the debt collector wont provide proof???????? By the way I am in California And the debt collector is in utah

[debtcollector`]

You aren't going to get any proof like that. Your options are simple: Pay it or send them a cease and desist letter. If you send the letter you might be sued.

DC

[mrrogers92562]

Why is it so hard to get proof???? do debt collectors not have proof??

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by mrrogers92562

Why is it so hard to get proof???? do debt collectors not have proof??

frankly, debtors aren't worth spending the money to reproduce it and mail every time they want to stall. So, no one gets that.

DC

[Johnny O]

I dont think that after 9 years they can enforce this debt. You should get some feedback from the more knowledgeble posters on here. Chien, Debt guy, Senior Judge, Etc.
Be patient.

[Chien]

Based on what you’ve posted and assuming the alleged debt also arose in CA, the Statute of Limitations is 4 years. If you’ve given all relevant information, I’d go with the C & D letter.

If you’re asking for proof that you were the guarantor, it implies for me that you remember the incident. If there’s more to it, the consequences of a C & D are on you.

[mrrogers92562]

I dont remember the debt but I did know the person in which its regarding. I dont know if this person signed my name or what...

[No Gravy]

Originally Posted by mrrogers92562

I dont remember the debt but I did know the person in which its regarding. I dont know if this person signed my name or what...

Requesting validation of a debt is not only your right, but it's what is recommended in every other debt/credit/bankruptcy forum I know of....except for this one. This forum is like the twilight zone of debt "advice."

Do yourself a favor, spend some time on Google. And think about it, why would you pay someone who claims you owe money but won't give you proof of the debt? That's like someone walking up to you on the street and saying "Hey, you owe me $20 from 10 years ago. Remember?"

FDCPA Section 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

Plus, they must show proof positive that you owe them this debt. It's not enough to send you a computer-generated printout of the debt. There is an opinion letter from the FTC to back this up:

[url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm[/url]

Nor can they ask you to pay for digging up records of your debt:

[url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/krisor2.htm[/url]

So, if a creditor can't verify a debt:

* They are not allowed to collect the debt,
* They are not allowed to contact you about the debt, and
* They are also not allowed to report it under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). Doing so is a violation of the FCRA, and the FCRA states that you can sue for $1,000 in damages for any violation of the Act.

The opinion letter from the FTC which clearly spells out that a collection agency CANNOT report a debt to the credit bureaus which has not been validated:

[url]http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/cass.htm[/url]

[You Are Guilty]

Gravy,

Did you even read the links you posted? You are doing a grave disservice to debtors by giving them incorrect advice, (particularly about what information constitutes validation). Following your "advice" is a great way to get people, who might otherwise have a chance at negotiating their debt, sued.

[gxav]

YouAreGuilty

Would you care to point out exactly what is wrong with what NoGravy has said?

Thanks

[You Are Guilty]

Just noticed your reply. Here you go:

Originally Posted by No Gravy

Plus, they must show proof positive that you owe them this debt. It's not enough to send you a computer-generated printout of the debt. There is an opinion letter from the FTC to back this up:
[url=http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm]FDCPA Staff Opinion: LeFevre-Wollman[/url]

Under no stretch of imagination does the law say the collector must provide you with "proof positive" of the debt, and the FTC opinion letter cited (which does not rise to the "power" of a statute), certainly doesn't say it either. The minimum the law requires is the name and address of the original creditor, (although sometimes you can get more than that by asking nicely.) A "computer-generated printout of the debt", coupled with the OC's info is, under the law, more than required to "validate".

Originally Posted by No Gravy

Nor can they ask you to pay for digging up records of your debt:
[url=http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/krisor2.htm]FDCPA Staff Opinion: Fitzpatrick-Krisor[/url]

Correct.

Originally Posted by No Gravy

So, if a creditor can't verify a debt:
* They are not allowed to collect the debt,
* They are not allowed to contact you about the debt, and
* They are also not allowed to report it under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA). Doing so is a violation of the FCRA, and the FCRA states that you can sue for $1,000 in damages for any violation of the Act.

Misleading. If a collector DOES NOT verify a debt, despite a timely, written request that they do so, AND continues collection activities, they violate the FRCA. If they "can't" validate, but no request to do so was made, they can continue their collection efforts. And whether they verify or not, they are permitted under the FRCA to contact you under several scenarios and for different purposes.

Originally Posted by No Gravy

The opinion letter from the FTC which clearly spells out that a collection agency CANNOT report a debt to the credit bureaus which has not been validated:
[url=http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/cass.htm]FDCPA Staff Opinion: LeFevre-Cass[/url]

Not applicable to the question asked.

Of course, there is a potential statute of limitations defense here, but it's fact specific and we don't have enough of them to know for certain whether its applicable.