Paying for information on a debtor

[insguy]

What is the name of your state? NY
Can somebody sell information to a creditor to help them collect against a debtor? As a resident of NY state can they sell this information to residents in other states? If the answer is yes where can I find case law that states this? Thank you

[Chien]

You’re not being specific enough, because the easy answer is yes, it’s done all the time as long as it’s public record information and/or there is a law permitting the dissemination. In the latter instance, as a general proposition, data is available to “permitted” or “permissible” users for designated purposes.

If you have something specific in mind, what is it?

[insguy]

Originally Posted by Chien

You’re not being specific enough, because the easy answer is yes, it’s done all the time as long as it’s public record information and/or there is a law permitting the dissemination. In the latter instance, as a general proposition, data is available to “permitted” or “permissible” users for designated purposes.

If you have something specific in mind, what is it?

Ok, lets say I go down to the court house and through public records I found that person or company A won a judgment, but they have been unable to collect from the debtor because they do not know where to look. I come along and tell person or company A hey I can find the information you are looking for on the debtor, but for a price. Now is there anything illegal about selling the creditor information on the debtor such as property owned, vehicles owned, addresses they could be at and so on.

[Chien]

For the examples that you've chosen, the answer is no, sale is not resricted. And you don't need case law to confirm that. It's public record information and available to anyone willing to take the time and make the effort to gather it.

There are any number of companies online that can and do provide THAT kind of information for a fee. Property owned-check with the county assessor and/or county recorder. Vehicles owned-check the Department of Motor Vechcles. Phone number-check the phone book or any number of online references.

You're still not taking about proscribed data, but that exists too.
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I've had second thoughts and I’ve gotten a bit uneasy with my facile answer and probably because of your choice of a screen name. I want to amend it.

If you have come into possession of public information other than from public sources - eg. in the course of your employment, because you handle loan applications or insurance applications or because you work for the Dept. of Motor Vehicles – that information is both proprietary and provided with the expectation that it be used for a specific purpose and, except for that purpose, remain confidential. If you then use that information for personal gain or even disclose it gratuitously, you will have potentially violated several criminal and civil laws, regardless of whether the information could have been independently aggregated from public sources with sufficient effort.

I'd personally like to know what you have in mind.

[insguy]

Originally Posted by Chien

For the examples that you've chosen, the answer is no, sale is not resricted. And you don't need case law to confirm that. It's public record information and available to anyone willing to take the time and make the effort to gather it.

There are any number of companies online that can and do provide THAT kind of information for a fee. Property owned-check with the county assessor and/or county recorder. Vehicles owned-check the Department of Motor Vechcles. Phone number-check the phone book or any number of online references.

You're still not taking about proscribed data, but that exists too.
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I've had second thoughts and I’ve gotten a bit uneasy with my facile answer and probably because of your choice of a screen name. I want to amend it.

If you have come into possession of public information other than from public sources - eg. in the course of your employment, because you handle loan applications or insurance applications or because you work for the Dept. of Motor Vehicles – that information is both proprietary and provided with the expectation that it be used for a specific purpose and, except for that purpose, remain confidential. If you then use that information for personal gain or even disclose it gratuitously, you will have potentially violated several criminal and civil laws, regardless of whether the information could have been independently aggregated from public sources with sufficient effort.

I'd personally like to know what you have in mind.

Screen name has nothing to with me or my profession. I stated above that if I go to the court house get the public information and then help the creditor by giving them public information on the debtor, which many creditors are too lazy to do can I charge a fee. That is all.

[Chien]

With an understanding of the limitations and prohibitions, if that's what you contemplating, my original answer stands. It's simply skip tracing, or asset location or record aggregation.
I'm a commercial litigator, and I use those kinds of services for my clients all the time.
Debtcollector is primarily involved in retail recovery, and I imagine that he does as well.
I would caution you to find out whether any activity that you contemplate would cause you to be considered a private investigator and, if so, if that requires a license in NY.

[debtcollector`]

Originally Posted by Chien

I would caution you to find out whether any activity that you contemplate would cause you to be considered a private investigator and, if so, if that requires a license in NY.

Yup -- I use databases for days.

For the OP, for what you are talking about doing, you most likely will need a PI license, unless it is just a specific person you have a grudge against, in which case you need a restraining order.

As far as aggregating public databases and reselling them, that's legal -- no license required. But there is a big difference between calling Joe Snuffy's creditors and selling information on HIM and collecting the public records and selling access to your file.

Frankly, with all the law changes of the past five years, very few creditors or collectors are going to buy data from you without you having a track record and impressive profile. Too much liability if you use illegal tactics.


DC

[Chien]

To DC’s comments-Amen. I use databases regularly to make decisions about suit and the potential for recovery, but I wouldn’t be receptive to someone who just popped up and proposed to “lighten my load”

There is presently a former “P.I. to the Stars” facing a 110 count federal indictment in Los Angeles for use of illegal information-gathering tactics. Attorneys, former clients and two police departments have been swept up in the investigation and 6 additional defendants named for knowingly abetting.

If you’re serious, there is a legitimate service that you can perform and that justifies a fee, because there would be far fewer uncollected judgments, if judgment creditors (and, often, their attorneys) knew what to do after the case is won. But my suggestion would be to think and start small, learn the art and science of skip-tracing, learn everything you can about judgment enforcement in NY, get paid for getting your clients from the point when the case is won to the point that they get the money and establish yourself that way. There are already large, well-established companies providing databases, if that’s all that’s needed.

(But don’t cross the line into the unlicensed practice of law.)

Originally Posted By debtcollector
For the OP, for what you are talking about doing, you most likely will need a PI license, unless it is just a specific person you have a grudge against, in which case you need a restraining order.

Funny line.
I wondered if just had an ex-girl friend's unlisted phone number in mind.

[insguy]

Originally Posted by Chien

To DC’s comments-Amen. I use databases regularly to make decisions about suit and the potential for recovery, but I wouldn’t be receptive to someone who just popped up and proposed to “lighten my load”

There is presently a former “P.I. to the Stars” facing a 110 count federal indictment in Los Angeles for use of illegal information-gathering tactics. Attorneys, former clients and two police departments have been swept up in the investigation and 6 additional defendants named for knowingly abetting.

If you’re serious, there is a legitimate service that you can perform and that justifies a fee, because there would be far fewer uncollected judgments, if judgment creditors (and, often, their attorneys) knew what to do after the case is won. But my suggestion would be to think and start small, learn the art and science of skip-tracing, learn everything you can about judgment enforcement in NY, get paid for getting your clients from the point when the case is won to the point that they get the money and establish yourself that way. There are already large, well-established companies providing databases, if that’s all that’s needed.

(But don’t cross the line into the unlicensed practice of law.)


Funny line.
I wondered if just had an ex-girl friend's unlisted phone number in mind.

Thank you and after reading everything I believe the best way would be to start a judgment recovery business. I had no idea that the judgment recovery business was so big until I did some research. As long as you know where to look and do a little leg work I can't see why you can't make a few bucks.