PayPal Chargeback & Collections Problem

[neil1989]

What is the name of your state? CA

Hi. Here is my situation.
I sold an item for around $2100. The buyer lives in France (Yeah, not smart, I know now) and told me he could pay through PayPal. We tried setting up the payments, but it appears that he had a limitation on his Credit Card, so he sent like 4 or 5 payments of 350 euro and one of 75euro from his Credit Card which equaled out to the cost of the item and my shipping charges.

I send the item. A couple of weeks later he files a claim through PayPal stating he never got it and think I am a "Scammer" and wants his money back. I provide a FedEx tracking number to PayPal which shows that he recieved the item and SIGNED for it. One week later, the PayPal investigation is complete and I WIN the claim and get to keep my money. He sends me a few emails calling me a scammer and wants his money or something, I just disregard these.

I buy some things here and there and transfer the leftover money to my bank account. About 2-4 months later, I get an e-mail from PayPal. The buyer apparently filed a Credit Card Chargeback stating "Unauthorized Use" (e-mail on Nov 14). PayPal immedatly debited my account to -2100$ (which I am aware they can do, due to their TOS I agreed to), because the CC refunded the guy but is still pending investigation, I have no problem with that as I hope I am going to win the chargeback.

Although I am not covered by the SPP (Seller Protection Policy), PayPal said they would help me dispute this as I won the PayPal claim. They said it would take the Credit Card company about 75 days to come to a decision and they also said I would need to restore the balance on my account, I asked if I could wait it out and see if I win or not, they said this was fine, on Phone and through e-mail.

December 28th I get an email from a BBrown asking me to call him and that he is with a Collection Agency. I did some research and he deals with PayPal collections (google search of [email]bbrown@comdes.com[/email]).

I haven't called him, but I was wondering what was your guys thoughts on this matter? PayPal has not notified me that the chargeback case has been closed yet, I emailed them on this matter and asked about the collection agent. Do I have any rights? Also, if per say I lose the chargeback, do I have to time frame to pay off the debt and can I dispute it?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advanced.

[TiredOfAbuse]

They said it would take the Credit Card company about 75 days to come to a decision and they also said I would need to restore the balance on my account, I asked if I could wait it out and see if I win or not, they said this was fine, on Phone and through e-mail.

Print the email and send a copy with a cover letter to the Collections Agency showing them your dilemma. If you have proof in writing as you state (an e-mail OK that your balance can be frozen until the CC completed investigation) then it should go a long way.

If they do not back down becuase their right hand doesn't talk to the left, send another good will letter stating the facts and their promise. After that 2nd attempt, start with a BBB complaint and progress to the AG. Personally I would consider their approval of the current situation in email a written agreement.

Any other views on this?

TiredOfAbuse

[neil1989]

Hey thanks for the reply. I will for sure print out the email(s) and send them to the Collection Agency. Also, I got a letter from the CA and they said I have 30 days to pay off this $2100 debt in full... Is their a way to make payments if I have to pay this off? Also, if I do, there is no way to fight this against PayPal or the associated Credit Company that issued the chargeback?? Because I feel that I am really getting screwed here, but I've read this is a common thing for people doing business online with PayPal/Credit Cards...

Anyways, thanks for the advice, I will send out the letter and also call them. Should I request a Debt Verification letter?

[TiredOfAbuse]

Originally Posted by neil1989

Hey thanks for the reply. I will for sure print out the email(s) and send them to the Collection Agency. Also, I got a letter from the CA and they said I have 30 days to pay off this $2100 debt in full... Is their a way to make payments if I have to pay this off? Also, if I do, there is no way to fight this against PayPal or the associated Credit Company that issued the chargeback?? Because I feel that I am really getting screwed here, but I've read this is a common thing for people doing business online with PayPal/Credit Cards...

Anyways, thanks for the advice, I will send out the letter and also call them. Should I request a Debt Verification letter?

You are really in a tough spot here. The advice I posted is what I would do in your shoes. The Collections Agency's job is to collect consumer debt using any means necessary. A CA likes to get paid in full right away. The agent loves the end of month bonus, and the company advertises they get "immediate results" to get more business.

Yes, there is a way to make payments. You do not know that though unless you contact the CA (preferably in writing, keep a paper trail) and make arrangements. Regardless, you have a written agreement with Pay Pal - this is something they should honor and you should fight tooth and nail over.

As the facts stand now, there is a con man disputing his CC bill, and you are the victim. I know it's hard, but at this stage you need to protect yourself. Bringing YOUR finances out of the red is protecting yourself. One thing to consider is that if you are only able to make payments, why not start now? It's possible you will lose in the end. By correcting your finances now, you prevent a lot more hurt down the road when they really do want the balance paid in full.

Also realize that you are fighting back. The CC company is investigating, Pay Pal has told you they are batting for you. If you win and you are making payments to bring your balance to $0, then you will be reimbursed.

If you can, see if you can contact any type of Fraud agencies in the country this person resides. Pay Pal and the CC company aren't your only course of action. You may be able to get that country's law enforcement to help you as well.

Is there anything you can do differently in selling items using Pay Pal that will help avoid this kind of thing down the road? Something to think about.

TiredOfAbuse

[neil1989]

Well it seems that I have lost the chargeback case as I recieved an email today from PayPal stating that I have lost. So they want me to pay up $2k. I sent them an email asking them if they can share any information with me so I can speak directly with the buyer's credit issuer, they said "we cannot disclose any information".

But then I found these little snippits on the PayPal website.

Originally Posted by PayPal

How does PayPal help sellers fight unwarranted chargeback?
2. If you resolve a dispute through the Resolution Center, Paypal will protect you 100% against any future claim, chargeback, or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction.

Originally Posted by PayPal

If a seller amicably resolves a PayPal dispute or wins a claim, is the seller covered against chargebacks?
Yes, if you amicably resolve a dispute through the Resolution Center, Paypal will protect you 100% against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer may file for that transaction.
To be covered, however, the seller must honor agreements made with the buyer during the dispute resolution process. And, if the chargeback comes in before the dispute or claim is resolved, the seller will not be covered."

After reviewing the above information, it seems that I should be covered. If you read the 1st post I made, I did in face win the PayPal dispute claim, and then after the claim was resolved the chargebacks were filed. So, to my understanding, I should be covered and PayPal should protect me... right?

I found the above information in quotes on the PayPal site under the Chargeback FAQ. Should I consult a lawyer, or should I speak with a PayPal representative about this? In the past, the PayPal reps have been less than informative on the matter and seem to ask/answer the same questions as if reading a script...

Please any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!!

[neil1989]

Anybody?

[debtcollector`]

For $2k you may want to discuss it with an attorney.

DC

[neil1989]

Originally Posted by debtcollector`

For $2k you may want to discuss it with an attorney.

DC

Ok, thank you for your input. I think I will... I wonder how much this is going to cost me now. haha. (Lawyer fees) :/

[Babaji]

Hi,

I.m also having problems with Paypal and have been doing some research. I came across a post from a seller in Australia (on another web site), who has been successful filing a claim through the FBI - I know it sounds a bit far out - and got his money back.

My impression is that being logical and methodical with Paypal in pursuing a resolution works primarily if the problem is one they are prepared to handle - i.e. it's simple - and when there is no entity outside of Paypal involved - like a credit card company.

Everyone knows how bad Paypal customer services is - is it likely that the people they do train have consistent training?. . . hell no. . . so even if your problem falls within what they promised they would handle, its still chancy. I've gotten instructions from them to do things and then find I can't do it because they have protocal prohibiting those very actions they recommended - how much more dysfunctional can you get?

It seems that Paypal has no pull with credit card companies - regardless of what they tell anyone they seem to have no leverage there.

It seems to me that you want to find a place of leverage - and the FBI (as the guy from Australia found out) has leverage. At this point - or at some point soon - this will not be about you and the buyer, but about you and Paypal - since they are violating their own promises.

Before you hire an attorney, how about giving the FBI a shot or doing some research about other entities that have more leverage than Paypal?

I won't leave my contact info since Paypal apparently tries to intimidate people who go after it, but will come back to this forum to see how you did. I will also try the FBI if my bank (Bank of America) can't get my money back.

By the way, I am not an attorney.

[neil1989]

hey do you use aim or something so we can talk?
i think i will call the FBI and see what they can do.
thanks alot.