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Vehicle Impounded - I'm the last registered owner. New owner died before registering.

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in_california1

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CALIFORNIA

TL;DR: I gave away an SUV, i filled out the release of liability and transfer notice through the DMV. New owner did not register it. New owner is now dead. I have a bill for $5,000.

SUV was taken for a joy ride by someone else and was impounded by CHP for a mandatory 30 days. I got an extortion letter from the towing company listing me as the registered owner and looking to collect an easy $5,000 ($75/day storage, plus fees, and more fees). If I do nothing it will be sold off or auctioned, however the towing company might bill me for whatever is not covered after the sale, if I don't pay they can also try to sue me. Do they have a case against me? How am I still the registered owner? What's the point of the "Release of Liability" then?


Long Version: In November 2014 I drove to northern California (from southern California) to give my father an SUV because he did not have reliable transportation and needed something to go to and from doctors appointments, etc. I gave him the pink slip (car title), we filled it out, wrote down current mileage etc, I checked the box that said I was gifting in to him. I filled out the "Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability" through the DMV website and that was that, or so I thought.

I returned back to Los Angeles shortly after. Sadly, my father's health took a turn for the worse, he never got a chance to go to the DMV to get the SUV registered in his name. He passed away without warning two months later in January of this year. My mom (or maybe my brother) still have the pink slip.

Two months ago my younger brother decided to take it out for a joy ride and got pulled over by CHP. He freaked out and lied to the cop, gave him false name and some other nonsense. Cop did not actually have any legal basis for impounding other than expired vehicle registration but decided to get it impounded anyway for a mandatory 30 days! I guess as a lesson for lying to a cop.

The part I need legal advice with: Earlier this week I received a NOTICE OF PENDING LIEN SALE from the towing company called by CHP up in northern California to pick up my dad's SUV. Fees are a ridiculous $75/day plus bunch of other fees, in all I'm looking at close to $5,000. The DMV lien sale notice has ME listed as the registered owner. Is that right? The legal owner box is blank. The interested parties box has my dad's name and his address. My brother, the one responsible for this mess is not listed anywhere.

If you've followed all that so far then this is the tricky bit... my dad and I have/had very similar names--same first name but different middle names. On paper it all looks like this all just one person, but it's not. I'm in Los Angeles, I was 300+ miles away while all this was going on.

So, what am I looking at here? Is the towing company just trying to shake me down but has no legal case, or as the last registered owner am I still liable for all those fees?
Is there any sense in having my mom mail in the DMV registration now posthumously, or going to the DMV in person with my fathers death certificate to clear this up? I would prefer to keep her out of all this, losing my father has been difficult enough.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
Two months ago my younger brother decided to take it out for a joy ride and got pulled over by CHP. He freaked out and lied to the cop, gave him false name and some other nonsense. Cop did not actually have any legal basis for impounding other than expired vehicle registration but decided to get it impounded anyway for a mandatory 30 days! I guess as a lesson for lying to a cop.
Your brother gave you a line of hooey. If it was impounded for 30 days it was because (a) he had never had a license or it was suspended, or (b) he was stopped and cited for reckless driving.

The part I need legal advice with: Earlier this week I received a NOTICE OF PENDING LIEN SALE from the towing company called by CHP up in northern California to pick up my dad's SUV. Fees are a ridiculous $75/day plus bunch of other fees, in all I'm looking at close to $5,000. The DMV lien sale notice has ME listed as the registered owner. Is that right? The legal owner box is blank. The interested parties box has my dad's name and his address. My brother, the one responsible for this mess is not listed anywhere.
A lien sale can occur after 30 days have expired and no arrangements have been made to collect the vehicle and pay the impound and storage fees. I'm not sure why it might be approaching $5,000, but at $75 per day plus about $400 for the original tow, that amount would be $2,650 and when you add in release fees and the like I would expect it to be about $3,000. You might want to ask for an itemized breakdown of the costs.

If you've followed all that so far then this is the tricky bit... my dad and I have/had very similar names--same first name but different middle names. On paper it all looks like this all just one person, but it's not. I'm in Los Angeles, I was 300+ miles away while all this was going on.

So, what am I looking at here? Is the towing company just trying to shake me down but has no legal case, or as the last registered owner am I still liable for all those fees?
If there is a valid release of liability on file with the DMV then you should not be held accountable for any costs that extend above what he tow company will get for the vehicle at auction. If anything, they could sue your father's estate for the balance.

Is there any sense in having my mom mail in the DMV registration now posthumously, or going to the DMV in person with my fathers death certificate to clear this up? I would prefer to keep her out of all this, losing my father has been difficult enough.
You and mom can certainly try. But, the DMV doesn't appear to be the issue (though you might want to get a copy of the release of liability) it appears that the tow company is trying to get their money and they will try to do it from anyone they can. It may be bluster, or, they may be unaware of any release of liability ... or, choosing to ignore it.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]
 
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CALIFORNIA

TL;DR: I gave away an SUV, i filled out the release of liability and transfer notice through the DMV. New owner did not register it. New owner is now dead. I have a bill for $5,000.

SUV was taken for a joy ride by someone else and was impounded by CHP for a mandatory 30 days. I got an extortion letter from the towing company listing me as the registered owner and looking to collect an easy $5,000 ($75/day storage, plus fees, and more fees). If I do nothing it will be sold off or auctioned, however the towing company might bill me for whatever is not covered after the sale, if I don't pay they can also try to sue me. Do they have a case against me? How am I still the registered owner? What's the point of the "Release of Liability" then?


Long Version: In November 2014 I drove to northern California (from southern California) to give my father an SUV because he did not have reliable transportation and needed something to go to and from doctors appointments, etc. I gave him the pink slip (car title), we filled it out, wrote down current mileage etc, I checked the box that said I was gifting in to him. I filled out the "Notice of Transfer and Release of Liability" through the DMV website and that was that, or so I thought.

I returned back to Los Angeles shortly after. Sadly, my father's health took a turn for the worse, he never got a chance to go to the DMV to get the SUV registered in his name. He passed away without warning two months later in January of this year. My mom (or maybe my brother) still have the pink slip.

Two months ago my younger brother decided to take it out for a joy ride and got pulled over by CHP. He freaked out and lied to the cop, gave him false name and some other nonsense. Cop did not actually have any legal basis for impounding other than expired vehicle registration but decided to get it impounded anyway for a mandatory 30 days! I guess as a lesson for lying to a cop.

The part I need legal advice with: Earlier this week I received a NOTICE OF PENDING LIEN SALE from the towing company called by CHP up in northern California to pick up my dad's SUV. Fees are a ridiculous $75/day plus bunch of other fees, in all I'm looking at close to $5,000. The DMV lien sale notice has ME listed as the registered owner. Is that right? The legal owner box is blank. The interested parties box has my dad's name and his address. My brother, the one responsible for this mess is not listed anywhere.

If you've followed all that so far then this is the tricky bit... my dad and I have/had very similar names--same first name but different middle names. On paper it all looks like this all just one person, but it's not. I'm in Los Angeles, I was 300+ miles away while all this was going on.

So, what am I looking at here? Is the towing company just trying to shake me down but has no legal case, or as the last registered owner am I still liable for all those fees?
Is there any sense in having my mom mail in the DMV registration now posthumously, or going to the DMV in person with my fathers death certificate to clear this up? I would prefer to keep her out of all this, losing my father has been difficult enough.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Usually when a towing company impounds a vehicle and the owner of such vehicle does not pay to get it out of impound, it gets sold and the towing company gets what ever it sells for minus auction fees. They will NOT come after you for anything since their benefit is to sell the vehicle. As such, you don't have to worry anymore about liability concerning the vehicle since it is being sold to a new owner.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Usually when a towing company impounds a vehicle and the owner of such vehicle does not pay to get it out of impound, it gets sold and the towing company gets what ever it sells for minus auction fees. They will NOT come after you for anything since their benefit is to sell the vehicle. As such, you don't have to worry anymore about liability concerning the vehicle since it is being sold to a new owner.
If the tow company does not receive enough money at auction to cover their costs, they will almost certainly look to the registered and/or legal owners for the balance between the sale and the debt. How hard they will pursue the matter is anyone's guess and will likely depend on how much the difference was.

In the OP's case, if he has a release of liability on file with the DMV he should be free and clear no matter the case.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Usually when a towing company impounds a vehicle and the owner of such vehicle does not pay to get it out of impound, it gets sold and the towing company gets what ever it sells for minus auction fees. They will NOT come after you for anything since their benefit is to sell the vehicle. As such, you don't have to worry anymore about liability concerning the vehicle since it is being sold to a new owner.
Nellibelle - your "advice" (as usual) is highly suspect, bordering on intentionally damaging. Of COURSE the towing/impound yard can come after the OP for the difference (if any) between what the vehicle sells for and what is owed. To say otherwise can be harmful to the op, financially speaking. I expect you to make a correction of your erroneous statement, anything else will simply make it obvious that you are intentionally giving false information.
 
If the tow company does not receive enough money at auction to cover their costs, they will almost certainly look to the registered and/or legal owners for the balance between the sale and the debt. How hard they will pursue the matter is anyone's guess and will likely depend on how much the difference was.

In the OP's case, if he has a release of liability on file with the DMV he should be free and clear no matter the case.
I'd like to see any evidence of any towing yard attempting to recover any of their excessive fees from anyone who chose not to get their vehicle out of impound. These towing companies make a pretty good living out of selling cars at auctions (I've attended several)!! They certainly don't need to and I've never seen it or heard of them coming after anyone for fees that were in excess of the car's selling price.

I suppose if they wanted to litigate for excessive fees not paid or recouped from the sale of the vehicle, they could try, but as I said in another thread, I know of 3 cases in which no such litigation occurred. In my opinion, it doesn't happen very often if at all.

As a note, after studying the California Vehicle Code, I can see why I've never heard of any liability beyond the forfeiture of one's car for not paying impound fees. There are strict guidelines imposed by the state of Ca. regarding CHP impounds that doesn't allow for the towing company to recoupe storage fees beyond what they are allowed from the sale of the forfeited vehicle.
 
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Nellibelle - your "advice" (as usual) is highly suspect, bordering on intentionally damaging. Of COURSE the towing/impound yard can come after the OP for the difference (if any) between what the vehicle sells for and what is owed. To say otherwise can be harmful to the op, financially speaking. I expect you to make a correction of your erroneous statement, anything else will simply make it obvious that you are intentionally giving false information.
I see you had my post deleted. Why? Because I disagree with you regarding a vehicle impounded by the CHP? If you would care to read the California Vehicle Code, you would see that there are strict guidelines regarding impounded vehicles. Nowhere does it say the towing company has a right to recover storage fees from the person who forfeited the vehicle!! This pretty much supports my posts that indicate that the OP will not have to worry about it!
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I'd like to see any evidence of any towing yard attempting to recover any of their excessive fees from anyone who chose not to get their vehicle out of impound.
I have seen a lot of them. I have to deal with the R/Os that get these notices and have to go to Small Claims and then ask what they can do about it. I also have friends that own tow companies and deal with this all the time.

A tow company is in the business for ... uh, business. If they cannot recover their costs at auction, they go after the registered and legal owners for the balance. Each company may have their own threshold for taking action. A couple hundred bucks, they may write off. But, a thousand dollars or more, they can't afford to. The tow company has expenses, and many of the cars that they get for 30 day impounds are not going to net the $2,000-$3,000 they could have received as many are nearly junk. So, they have little choice but to go after the R/O or L/O.

These towing companies make a pretty good living out of selling cars at auctions (I've attended several)!! They certainly don't need to and I've never seen it or heard of them coming after anyone for fees that were in excess of the car's selling price.
You clearly have not seen some of the cars they tow. You may have attended some auctions, but I have both attended auctions and worked with parties on both ends of the equation.

I suppose if they wanted to litigate for excessive fees not paid or recouped from the sale of the vehicle, they could, but as I said in another thread, I know of 3 cases in which no such litigation occurred. In my opinion, it doesn't happen very often if at all.
I know for a fact that it DOES happen. I cannot quantify it, but, I could probably find out that answer in relatively short order. The bottom line is that these companies have to stay afloat and they cannot do that on a loss, and auctions are unpredictable.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I see you had my post deleted. Why? Because I disagree with you regarding a vehicle impounded by the CHP? If you would care to read the California Vehicle Code, you would see that there are strict guidelines regarding impounded vehicles. Nowhere does it say the towing company has a right to recover storage fees from the person who forfeited the vehicle!! This pretty much supports my posts that indicate that the OP will not have to worry about it!
As a note, I don't know that Zigner is an Admin capable of deleting posts. If he is, I presume he will inform you.

The CVC doesn't directly cover civil actions regarding such liability. You will find that in the CCP and others.

However, the CVC DOES cover abandoned vehicles and how to pursue civil action:

Abandonment Prohibited

22523. (a) No person shall abandon a vehicle upon any highway.
(b) No person shall abandon a vehicle upon public or private property without the express or implied consent of the owner or person in lawful possession or control of the property.

(c) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100) and shall provide proof that the costs of removal and disposition of the vehicle have been paid. No part of any fine imposed shall be suspended. The fine may be paid in installments if the court determines that the defendant is unable to pay the entire amount in one payment.

(d) Proof that the costs of removal and disposition of the vehicle have been paid shall not be required if proof is provided to the court that the vehicle was stolen prior to abandonment. That proof may consist of a police report or other evidence acceptable to the court.

(e) The costs required to be paid for the removal and disposition of any vehicle determined to be abandoned pursuant to Section 22669 shall not exceed those for towing and seven days of storage. This subdivision does not apply if the registered owner or legal owner has completed and returned to the lienholder a "Declaration of Opposition" form within the time specified in Section 22851.8.

(f) (1) If a vehicle is abandoned in violation of subdivision (b) and is not redeemed after impound, the last registered owner is guilty of an infraction. In addition to any other penalty, the registered owner shall be liable for any deficiency remaining after disposal of the vehicle under Section 3071 or 3072 of the Civil Code or Section 22851.10 of this code.

(2) The filing of a report of sale or transfer of the vehicle pursuant to Section 5602, the filing of a vehicle theft report with a law enforcement agency, or the filing of a form or notice with the department pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 4456 or Section 5900 or 5901 relieves the registered owner of liability under this subdivision.

And, since the tow company will have notified the responsible parties that they need to claim their property, this begins their authority (among others) to recoup their losses.
 
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I have seen a lot of them. I have to deal with the R/Os that get these notices and have to go to Small Claims and then ask what they can do about it. I also have friends that own tow companies and deal with this all the time.

A tow company is in the business for ... uh, business. If they cannot recover their costs at auction, they go after the registered and legal owners for the balance. Each company may have their own threshold for taking action. A couple hundred bucks, they may write off. But, a thousand dollars or more, they can't afford to. The tow company has expenses, and many of the cars that they get for 30 day impounds are not going to net the $2,000-$3,000 they could have received as many are nearly junk. So, they have little choice but to go after the R/O or L/O.


You clearly have not seen some of the cars they tow. You may have attended some auctions, but I have both attended auctions and worked with parties on both ends of the equation.


I know for a fact that it DOES happen. I cannot quantify it, but, I could probably find out that answer in relatively short order. The bottom line is that these companies have to stay afloat and they cannot do that on a loss, and auctions are unpredictable.
For one thing, a CHP impound according to the Vehicle Code does not allow for a 75.00 a day storage fee. We are not talking about private towing yards, we're talking about a CHP impound. Nowhere in the Ca. Vehicle Code does it say anything about a towing yard that is contracted with the city/state to impound such vehicles recouping fees. In fact such fees are (by law) much less than 75.00 per day. Also, if the car is not worth anything (junk) the state deals with it by sending it off to the junk yard.

I'm sure private towing companies that don't do business in conjunction with police impounds would and have had issues allowing them to try and recoupe expenses, but again, we're not talking about such companies in this thread! Appreciate the information you gave, CDWjava! :)

BTW...all Zigner or any member has to do to have a post removed is to report it. That is what Zigner did to my post--although it wasn't warranted. You are a nice guy--so much that you aren't aware of the report button, I believe. :)
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
For one thing, a CHP impound according to the Vehicle Code does not allow for a 75.00 a day storage fee. We are not talking about private towing yards, we're talking about a CHP impound.
The CHP does not operate their own storage and impound yards - they contract out and any tow company meeting the requirements of distance, security, capabilities, etc., can be a part of the rotation. In some places there can be a dozen or more tow companies on the rotation for a particular area, in others there may be one or two. The daily and other rates are established by region.

Here is the statewide agreement:
https://www.chp.ca.gov/ResearchAndPlanningSectionSite/Documents/15_16TSA.pdf

Regional agreements will determine daily rates, gate fees, etc.

Nowhere in the Ca. Vehicle Code does it say anything about a towing yard that is contracted with the city/state to impound such vehicles recouping fees. In fact such fees are (by law) much less than 75.00 per day. Also, if the car is not worth anything (junk) the state deals with it by sending it off to the junk yard.
These are covered - in part - in the CVC and the Civil Code. And there is no state law that limits tow companies to $75 per day.

I'm sure private towing companies that don't do business in conjunction with police impounds would and have had issues allowing them to try and recoupe expenses, but again, we're not talking about such companies in this thread! Appreciate the information you gave, CDWjava! :)
The examples I provided are for law enforcement contracted tows. Private tows can be covered under a different set of rules and may incur greater tow fees.

BTW...all Zigner or any member has to do to have a post removed is to report it. That is what Zigner did to my post--although it wasn't warranted. You are a nice guy--so much that you aren't aware of the report button, I believe. :)
I have reported spam before, but, I never noticed a post disappearing. <shrug> And, thanks.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Nelli - really? I didn't report your post. If I HAD reported it, do you think I would have quoted it in its entirety within my reply, leaving it for everyone to see? Grow up.
 
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