What is included in a Sheriff sale on personal property?

[Amina0719]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

My son and his uncle share an apartment, both names are on the lease. Nothing except for the uncle's clothes and car belong to the uncle. All items in the apartment belong to my son. A lot of the furniture and etc. were either given to him or bought at yard sales. His uncle received a notice from the Sherif stating that if he doesn't make payment on a judgement for unpaid credit card, then there will be a sheriff sale. What will this include and will they take my sons things?

 

[dfromnyli]

how big is the credit card balance? i'm sure the car will suffice.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

My son and his uncle share an apartment, both names are on the lease. Nothing except for the uncle's clothes and car belong to the uncle. All items in the apartment belong to my son. A lot of the furniture and etc. were either given to him or bought at yard sales. His uncle received a notice from the Sheriff stating that if he doesn't make payment on a judgment for unpaid credit card, then there will be a sheriff sale. What will this include and will they take my sons things?

In the experience I have with Sheriff's sales, they don't like to actually sell clothing, they would or could take the vehicle. If the vehicle has a lien against it, the lien company can fight the execution (which is what it is called) and take possession of the vehicle directly from the Sheriff. The Uncle is however, usually responsible for the towing and storage of the vehicle which is tacked onto the bill to be reconciled. If your son can prove that the other belongings are his, the Sheriff or Deputy can't take his things since he is not liable for his Uncle's debt. Depending upon the year, condition, make and model of the vehicle, they could refuse to take the vehicle anyway. But, be aware that anything that they do take and sell for lower than what is owed is still owed by the debtor (the Uncle) and he is still responsible for the debt, no matter how many of his things were taken and sold.

 

[annajosie]

I think that the uncle would have to assert his exemptions. I do not know the exemptions laws in New Jersey, but it would behoove the uncle to find this out.

As far as the vehicle being taken if it is being financed by another company, I don't believe the judgement creditor can do that unless they pay off the original lienholder of the car. The chances of that happened are 0 to none.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

I think that the uncle would have to assert his exemptions. I do not know the exemptions laws in New Jersey, but it would behoove the uncle to find this out.

As far as the vehicle being taken if it is being financed by another company, I don't believe the judgement creditor can do that unless they pay off the original lienholder of the car. The chances of that happened are 0 to none.

Contrary to this statement, if the collection agency that is employing the Sheriff's department has a signed court order stating the execution, it can and is done. This is not to say that the original lienholder cannot or does not seize the property from the Sheriff, only that they can and do seize the property whether or no there is a lien against the vehicle or property. The tug of war between the lien holder and the judgment creditor is usually not pretty, and the judgment creditor is usually out the vehicle, however the towing and storage fees are attached as normal and right fees to the judgment and subject to payback.

 

[annajosie]

If the uncle can exempt $1000 on his car. I believe he also has a $1000 exemption on his other personal belongings.

If the car is taken and sold at auction, then the judgement creditor would have to pay off the original lienholder of the vehicle first before they can recover any monies.

I can't see a judgement creditor with an unsecured credit card balance being able to take, sell, and keep the proceeds of a vehicle of the debtor, if the vehicle is being financed by another company.

Please explain how that is possible. The lienholder of the vehicle has to be paid off first.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

If the car is taken and sold at auction, then the judgement creditor would have to pay off the original lienholder of the vehicle first before they can recover any monies.

True.

I can't see a judgement creditor with an unsecured credit card balance being able to take, sell, and keep the proceeds of a vehicle of the debtor, if the vehicle is being financed by another company.

Please explain how that is possible. The lienholder of the vehicle has to be paid off first.

Also True.
This is where it gets sticky. Without knowing where to see if a vehicle has a lien against it, there is are very few ways to check this. This is where you have to be particularly careful about your next step. if you have a vehicle that has a lien against it and it is executed on by the Sheriff for an unrelated debt (the vehicle is not listed as collateral), you need to let your lien holder know of this. They will take care of this running. Then you need to deal with the lien holder directly about getting the vehicle back from them. However the costs relating to the preparation and execution of the vehicle for the judgment creditors is still tacked onto the fees relating to the un-related debt that the vehicle was taken to auction to pay for.

Usually the execution is the last attempt that the judgment creditor has and is usually done with the fingers-crossed hope that in order to get the vehicle back, the debtor will beg, borrow and/or steal to get the judgment paid. As with most auctions, a vehicle is only as valuable as someone else will pay for it. Sometimes items are bought for pennies on the dollar, if that. I was once asked to prepare a spreadsheet detailing how much of the judgment was paid after a fairly new vehicle was (this one did not have a lien against it) auctioned at a Sheriff's auction for $1. That $1 went towards the judgment balance, but debtor was still responsible for the remaining balance.

 

[annajosie]

thanks for the information

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

thanks for the information

No problem.

 

[dfromnyli]

True.



Also True.
This is where it gets sticky. Without knowing where to see if a vehicle has a lien against it, there is are very few ways to check this.

it's actually pretty easy, all lienholders are listed on the title of the car. Can very easily obtain this by the DMV. The law office I work for actually uses a program called accurint and can find this information within seconds. We normally try to avoid taking cars with lienholders just because the money clients have to lay out to repo a car is pretty expensive and we obviously want to get as much $$ as possible.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

it's actually pretty easy, all lienholders are listed on the title of the car. Can very easily obtain this by the DMV. The law office I work for actually uses a program called accurint and can find this information within seconds. We normally try to avoid taking cars with lienholders just because the money clients have to lay out to repo a car is pretty expensive and we obviously want to get as much $$ as possible.

The firm I worked for used the same software. In the state where I have the bulk of my experience, the titles are kept by the financing company, the owner (or co-owners if you want to call the financing company a co-owner as well) does not have access to it. All of the executions were subject to managerial approval, they were presented with the information we had, if there was a lien, any carfax that was avail. A lot of times, like I said in a previous post, it was a last ditch, finger crossed effort into getting the debtor to pay his debt. Underhanded, maybe. Usually ended up with the money in the end anyway though.

 

[annajosie]

I'm sorry but this still is not making sense. How do you get any money from the debtor even if you take his car and auction it off? The creditor has to pay original lienholder and may come away with nothing after all expenses.

Another thing, if the debtor's car value is $1000 or less, he can assert this exemption, and the judgement creditor would not be able to take the car.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

I'm sorry but this still is not making sense. How do you get any money from the debtor even if you take his car and auction it off? The creditor has to pay original lienholder and may come away with nothing after all expenses.

Another thing, if the debtor's car value is $1000 or less, he can assert this exemption, and the judgement creditor would not be able to take the car.

Really a good question. I didn't say that it made sense. The debtors either would just shrug (knowing the lien holder would take it back) and let it go, or scramble to get the money together so that it WOULDN'T be sold. The judgment creditor doesn't have to pay the original lienholder, its not their debt to pay. The debtor is still responsible having signed for the debt, either the one where the vehicle is holding collateral or the one where its the property seized to take care of the unrelated debt. As far as the $1000 value, before we would seize a vehicle worth so little, we ran KBB on it to see if it would be worth it. We had to look realistically if we could recoup even a portion of the debt before we approached management for approval. We also had outside people looking at the vehicles before we went to the trouble of asking for the execution.

 

[annajosie]

that it made sense. The debtors either would just shrug (knowing the lien holder would take it back) and let it go, or scramble to get the money together so that it WOULDN'T be sold. The judgment creditor doesn't have to pay the original lienholder, its not their debt to pay. The debtor is still responsible having signed for the debt, either the one where the vehicle is holding collateral or the one where its the property seized to take care of the unrelated debt. As far as the $1000 value, before we would seize a vehicle worth so little, we ran KBB on it to see if it would be worth it. We had to look realistically if we could recoup even a portion of the debt before we approached management for approval. We also had outside people looking at the vehicles before we went to the trouble of asking for the execution

But you have stated in a previous post that the judgement creditor does have to pay the original lienholder of the vehicle. Now you are saying that the judgement creditor does not have to pay the original lienholder.

An unsecured judgement creditor cannot just take an automobile that a lienholder has an interest in, tow it away, sell it and pocket the proceeds. He has to satisfy the original lienholder.

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

But you have stated in a previous post that the judgement creditor does have to pay the original lienholder of the vehicle. Now you are saying that the judgement creditor does not have to pay the original lienholder.

An unsecured judgement creditor cannot just take an automobile that a lienholder has an interest in, tow it away, sell it and pocket the proceeds. He has to satisfy the original lienholder.

You are taking my statement out of context. I never said that the judgment creditor had to pay the original lienholder for the vehicle. I said and I quote "if you have a vehicle that has a lien against it and it is executed on by the Sheriff for an unrelated debt (the vehicle is not listed as collateral), you need to let your lien holder know of this. They will take care of this running. Then you need to deal with the lien holder directly about getting the vehicle back from them. However the costs relating to the preparation and execution of the vehicle for the judgment creditors is still tacked onto the fees relating to the un-related debt that the vehicle was taken to auction to pay for."

and
"The tug of war between the lien holder and the judgment creditor is usually not pretty, and the judgment creditor is usually out the vehicle, however the towing and storage fees are attached as normal and right fees to the judgment and subject to payback."

Let me explain in an example.

Josh Joe has a 2004 Toyota Tundra with a lien against the title to the tune of $11000.00. Josh Joe also has a judgment against him for unpaid bad checks, pastdue medical bills, etc. to the tune of $5000.00.
Collection agent X finds said vehicle on Accurint, does not see a lien against it and is unable to get the records from the States office due to privacy laws. CAX goes into account on file and finds banking info, job info etc and checks into the accuracy of the info. No current info. Goes to management at her office and gets the approval to request an execution. Execution is prepared, court signs said execution, sheriff executes on said vehicle and additional fees for execution, towing, storage and publication are tacked on. Meanwhile Josh Joe calls his lender, tells them that the vehicle has been taken. Lender then gets their legal team involved, they contact the collection agency and take the vehicle back from the sheriff's office who is storing the vehicle prior to auction. Lender has vehicle, collection agency is out that avenue of restitution for the judgment. Collection agency now has those additional execution fees tacked onto the balance of the judgment (although it is not part of the judgment unless specified in the judgment wording), and they have to look for another way to collect. If the lienholder or lender does not get involved in time, I am not sure what would happen as it never went that far in the five years I did this. The lienholder ALWAYS protected their collateral.

Make sense now?