Asset Division

[PattiJ]

CT

I am in the middle of a nasty divorce (aren't most of them?) and we cannot agree on division of marital property. We were married for 6 years. No kids. He's furious as he discovered I was having an affair. During the marriage he made 60% of the income and I made 40%. Originally, he wanted alimony from me. I'm $11K into lawyers fees so far and after the 4th Case Management Date they've finally set up a Special Masters meeting for later this month.

I'm looking for an informed opinion as to what will happen with the following:

1) Credit card debt: There was one card in his name with a 3K balance and one card in my name with a 6K balance. Both cards were obtained approximately 3 years ago. Everything purchased was for the household or for him only as I made very few personal purchases. I am assuming in a 50/50 state we will both be responsible for 1/2. He maintains that I'm responsible for the card in my name and he's responsible for the card in his.

2) Material Assets: We cannot agree on splitting up the furniture, electronics, etc. that were purchased during the time of the marriage. He's in possession of everything (as I'm the one that left) and HIS agreed upon list has him keeping about 80% of the jointly purchased assets. Note that FMV on the assets totals maybe about 20K (including $10K in new home theatre equipment and electronics). My attorney tells me to forget about it and just get out but it's the principle of the unfairness of it that is getting to me. What usually happens in special masters or in front of a judge when two idiots cannot agree how to split up a bunch of garage sale items?

3) Gifted stock: My parents gifted me $20K in stock 2 years ago (worth only $13K now) in my name only. They may have said it was for "us" to fix up the house; he maintains they did but we don't remember. It certainly wasn't given just to me as we were married at the time but my parents don't want him to have any of it. He wants half ~ what's the law on this? Is it likely that it would be awarded to him since it was received during the marriage?

4) 401K: His 401K from inception of the marriage to breakup was worth $50K more than mine. I was inclined not to touch his 401K since I was feeling guilty about the affair but my attorney says I'm entitled to half the delta. With the market drop, it's probably half that but it would cover most of my attorneys fees and he's the reason we've had this long, protracted battle. Not sure of the law on this, either.

Any and all comments and opinions are welcome as I only have my attorney to talk to and am feeling so overwhelmed by all of the legal stuff. Thanks in advance!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[LdiJ]

CT

I am in the middle of a nasty divorce (aren't most of them?) and we cannot agree on division of marital property. We were married for 6 years. No kids. He's furious as he discovered I was having an affair. During the marriage he made 60% of the income and I made 40%. Originally, he wanted alimony from me. I'm $11K into lawyers fees so far and after the 4th Case Management Date they've finally set up a Special Masters meeting for later this month.

Well, him asking alimony from you when he has the higher income is obviously absurd. Hopefully that is completely off the table now.

I'm looking for an informed opinion as to what will happen with the following:

1) Credit card debt: There was one card in his name with a 3K balance and one card in my name with a 6K balance. Both cards were obtained approximately 3 years ago. Everything purchased was for the household or for him only as I made very few personal purchases. I am assuming in a 50/50 state we will both be responsible for 1/2. He maintains that I'm responsible for the card in my name and he's responsible for the card in his.

He is wrong, but each of you are the only ones responsible to the respective credit card companies therefire no matter what the judge orders, ultimately what is each on your respective cards is going to fall back on the cardholder.

2) Material Assets: We cannot agree on splitting up the furniture, electronics, etc. that were purchased during the time of the marriage. He's in possession of everything (as I'm the one that left) and HIS agreed upon list has him keeping about 80% of the jointly purchased assets. Note that FMV on the assets totals maybe about 20K (including $10K in new home theatre equipment and electronics). My attorney tells me to forget about it and just get out but it's the principle of the unfairness of it that is getting to me. What usually happens in special masters or in front of a judge when two idiots cannot agree how to split up a bunch of garage sale items?

A judge would order an equal split...but again, enforcing that split could be problematic.

3) Gifted stock: My parents gifted me $20K in stock 2 years ago (worth only $13K now) in my name only. They may have said it was for "us" to fix up the house; he maintains they did but we don't remember. It certainly wasn't given just to me as we were married at the time but my parents don't want him to have any of it. He wants half ~ what's the law on this? Is it likely that it would be awarded to him since it was received during the marriage?

The gift from your parents was in your name only...its your separate property. He doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding that.

4) 401K: His 401K from inception of the marriage to breakup was worth $50K more than mine. I was inclined not to touch his 401K since I was feeling guilty about the affair but my attorney says I'm entitled to half the delta. With the market drop, it's probably half that but it would cover most of my attorneys fees and he's the reason we've had this long, protracted battle. Not sure of the law on this, either.

You are each entitled to 1/2 of the amount of your respective 401ks that accrued during the marriage...which at this point, may mean that neither of you may be due anything from the other....because both of your 401ks may be worth less now than they were when you got married.

Any and all comments and opinions are welcome as I only have my attorney to talk to and am feeling so overwhelmed by all of the legal stuff. Thanks in advance!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

My gut reaction is that no matter what happens with the credit card debt that you are going to end up being responsible for what is in your name even if the judge orders him to pay part of it.

My gut reaction is that no matter what the judge orders regarding household goods that you will end up spending more to get your share than what the share is worth.

My gut reaction is that your respective 401ks may be less than they were when you entered the marriage.

He won't get a share of your stock.

You are already 11k into this divorce...cut your losses.

 

[mistoffolees]

2) Material Assets: We cannot agree on splitting up the furniture, electronics, etc. that were purchased during the time of the marriage. He's in possession of everything (as I'm the one that left) and HIS agreed upon list has him keeping about 80% of the jointly purchased assets. Note that FMV on the assets totals maybe about 20K (including $10K in new home theatre equipment and electronics). My attorney tells me to forget about it and just get out but it's the principle of the unfairness of it that is getting to me. What usually happens in special masters or in front of a judge when two idiots cannot agree how to split up a bunch of garage sale items?

3) Gifted stock: My parents gifted me $20K in stock 2 years ago (worth only $13K now) in my name only. They may have said it was for "us" to fix up the house; he maintains they did but we don't remember. It certainly wasn't given just to me as we were married at the time but my parents don't want him to have any of it. He wants half ~ what's the law on this? Is it likely that it would be awarded to him since it was received during the marriage?

You've already got most of your answers, but I have a couple of comments:

On (2), you might want to reconsider how much to fight over it. The judge is going to value things at fair market value (which is basically what they would fetch at a garage sale). If you paid $10 K for electronics even a few months ago, it would possibly fetch $1-2K AT MOST in a garage sale, so that is how the court would value it. You could end up spending a lot of money fighting over something that isn't really that much.

On (3), you got the answer that it is separate property. That would be true if it was given solely to you. HOWEVER, if the parents really did give it to both of you to fix up the house, then it would be considered marital property. If he remembers it that way and you and your parents can't remember one way or the other, he could win that argument.

 

[LdiJ]

You've already got most of your answers, but I have a couple of comments:

On (2), you might want to reconsider how much to fight over it. The judge is going to value things at fair market value (which is basically what they would fetch at a garage sale). If you paid $10 K for electronics even a few months ago, it would possibly fetch $1-2K AT MOST in a garage sale, so that is how the court would value it. You could end up spending a lot of money fighting over something that isn't really that much.

On (3), you got the answer that it is separate property. That would be true if it was given solely to you. HOWEVER, if the parents really did give it to both of you to fix up the house, then it would be considered marital property. If he remembers it that way and you and your parents can't remember one way or the other, he could win that argument.

I disagree with the bolded. They put the gift in her name only. That is all that matters at this point.

 

[mistoffolees]

[/B]


I disagree with the bolded. They put the gift in her name only. That is all that matters at this point.

Sorry, but that's not the case. Connecticut is an equitable distribution state which gives the judge a great deal of leeway. If the gift was intended for the use of both spouses, even if only one name was put on the stock certificates, then the judge can order it split. Of course, if both names are on the stock certificates, it WILL be split.

I went through this. We had a mutual fund (non-529) in my ex's name. We had talked about using it for the kids' education (although we had also considered using it for retirement property). Even though it was funded fully with marital assets (actually funded fully from my income since my ex wasn't working), the judge ruled that because we had talked about using it for their education, it should be set aside and given to her as separate property (since the kids were her kids from her first marriage and I had no ties to them after the divorce).

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry, but that's not the case. Connecticut is an equitable distribution state which gives the judge a great deal of leeway. If the gift was intended for the use of both spouses, even if only one name was put on the stock certificates, then the judge can order it split. Of course, if both names are on the stock certificates, it WILL be split.

I went through this. We had a mutual fund (non-529) in my ex's name. We had talked about using it for the kids' education (although we had also considered using it for retirement property). Even though it was funded fully with marital assets (actually funded fully from my income since my ex wasn't working), the judge ruled that because we had talked about using it for their education, it should be set aside and given to her as separate property (since the kids were her kids from her first marriage and I had no ties to them after the divorce).

The judge doesn't have jurisdiction/authority to order that separate property be given to one spouse or the other. In your situation the property was marital, therefore the judge had the authority to decide what to do with it.

The husband could try to convince the judge to deem that the stocks are marital property, but since her parents put them in her name only, he would be hard pressed to convince a judge of that.

 

[Ohiogal]

[/B]


I disagree with the bolded. They put the gift in her name only. That is all that matters at this point.

Not necessarily. There is a caselaw that says otherwise in some states. Judges are good at making sure that gifts that benefit both parties are marital property. Though I understand why you say otherwise.

 

[mistoffolees]

The judge doesn't have jurisdiction/authority to order that separate property be given to one spouse or the other. In your situation the property was marital, therefore the judge had the authority to decide what to do with it.

The husband could try to convince the judge to deem that the stocks are marital property, but since her parents put them in her name only, he would be hard pressed to convince a judge of that.

That's basically what I said. In my case, the property was marital, but the judge gave it to my ex exclusively (that is, it became her separate property after the divorce).

In OP's case, it is similar, but not quite the same. While you're right that the judge can't give him her separate property, if he rules that it's marital property, he can give it to whomever he pleases. One could argue that it's separate property because her name is on the stocks, but it might not be as clear cut as it seems. Husband claims that it was given to both of them to repair the house. Neither wife nor wife's parents can remember one way or the other. They did put the stocks in her name, but there are lots of reasons to do that for convenience rather than intent for it to be solely hers.

Depending on how credible the husband is, I could see a significant chance that he could get the stocks ruled to be marital property which is why I gave my case showing how much discretion judges have, particularly in equitable distribution states.

 

[PattiJ]

Thank you for the advice. I'll let you know how it turns out...
Patti