To Catch A Cheating Husband

[hopingforthebes]

What is the name of your state? WA

Husband is cheating. I know for sure. Has cheated before, is cheating again.

1. Is it illegal to download/print out/obtain his e-mail correspondence with the mistress without his consent?

2. Is it illegal to record phone conversations he has with the mistress without either his or her consent?

If it helps at all, mistress is out of the country.

If it is illegal, then I'm really lost because I've got an enormous amount of evidence against him.

If I present illegally obtained evidence in court, can he use that against me?

Thank you.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? WA

Husband is cheating. I know for sure. Has cheated before, is cheating again.

SO? Divorce him. You chose to stay with him after he cheated before. Why are you still with him?

1. Is it illegal to download/print out/obtain his e-mail correspondence with the mistress without his consent?

It very well can be.

2. Is it illegal to record phone conversations he has with the mistress without either his or her consent?

Yes. Why would you think it would NOT be against the law. Why do you think you have a right to record conversations he has with someone else without his consent?

If it helps at all, mistress is out of the country.

guess what? FEDERAL CRIME!

If it is illegal, then I'm really lost because I've got an enormous amount of evidence against him.

For what purpose? Seriously. What do you want to accomplish?

If I present illegally obtained evidence in court, can he use that against me?

Yep. And he can ask that CRIMINAL charges be pressed against you by filing a criminal complaint.

Thank you.

you are welcome.

 

[hopingforthebes]

Wow, if you're a lawyer, did you just lose a case? Need a hug?

SO? Divorce him. You chose to stay with him after he cheated before. Why are you still with him?

Easier said than done, honey. We have a child and I plan to have a divorce once the kid's out of college and gets a job. Staying with him for now, for far more complicated reasons than I want to explain on a random forum. Waiting for the right time. But the ball's in my court and will be even more so by the time we get that divorce rollin'. I've got all the financial power, as the breadwinner of the family.

I'm not sure how strong the rest of my evidence is. I do have financial records (missing income from him, etc.), possible records of abuse, and telephone records (i.e. bills). But is that enough?

Also, if the kid testifies against him, would that be considered evidence as well? The kid argues better than most lawyers.

It very well can be.

Any loopholes?

Yes. Why would you think it would NOT be against the law. Why do you think you have a right to record conversations he has with someone else without his consent?

Well, they do sell the equipment...
It's got to be legal somehow. Maybe not in my state?

guess what? FEDERAL CRIME!

Not a crime in other countries.

For what purpose? Seriously. What do you want to accomplish?

Elaborate revenge. Think Monte Cristo or Shawshank Redemption, without the killing and prolonged prison stay.

Yep. And he can ask that CRIMINAL charges be pressed against you by filing a criminal complaint.

Is it possible to get a warrant of some sort? He won't be able to afford a very good lawyer.

 

[Ohiogal]

Wow, if you're a lawyer, did you just lose a case? Need a hug?

Nope. Won a case.

Easier said than done, honey. We have a child and I plan to have a divorce once the kid's out of college and gets a job.

It is easy though -- you are making the CHOICE to stay with him.

Staying with him for now, for far more complicated reasons than I want to explain on a random forum. Waiting for the right time. But the ball's in my court and will be even more so by the time we get that divorce rollin'. I've got all the financial power, as the breadwinner of the family.

Okay. So he doesn't work? Is that what you are saying? And you would need to prove adultery. LEGALLY. And you may very likely end up paying him Spousal Support.

I'm not sure how strong the rest of my evidence is. I do have financial records (missing income from him, etc.),

So he does work? How far back do these go?If you are putting up with it then it doesn't really matter.

possible records of abuse,

Apparently not ACTUAL or there would be police reports and convictions and proof.

and telephone records (i.e. bills). But is that enough?

Enough for what? telephone records only show that calls were made. Not by who. And not what was said.

Also, if the kid testifies against him, would that be considered evidence as well? The kid argues better than most lawyers.

The KID? You want a child to testify against his parent? ABOUT WHAT? How old is this kid?

Any loopholes?

Loopholes no. But if you have consent then you can access them.

Well, they do sell the equipment...

Yeah and they also sell fireworks in Ohio but that doesn't mean they are legal to USE here.

It's got to be legal somehow. Maybe not in my state?

If you have a search warrant from a court that is based on probable cause that specifically allows you to tap the phone then it could be legal. But you wont' get one of those.

Not a crime in other countries.

Oh really? You are sure of that? IT is a CRIME here however and because it involves other countries that makes it a federal offense.

Elaborate revenge. Think Monte Cristo or Shawshank Redemption, without the killing and prolonged prison stay.

Oh good grief. Revenge? How about immaturity? Grow up. Get a divorce. Move on.

Is it possible to get a warrant of some sort? He won't be able to afford a very good lawyer.

He could file criminal charges against you and the prosecutor can decide to prosecute and have an arrest warrant issued for you. For a variety of crimes. Depends on what you plan to do with the information and what your "revenge" entails.

 

[hopingforthebes]

Congrats on the win.

It is easy though -- you are making the CHOICE to stay with him.

Well aware. Yes, I am making the choice to stay with him. It's not a choice that I'm happy with, but we're not talking about the underlying reasons now are we?

Okay. So he doesn't work? Is that what you are saying? And you would need to prove adultery. LEGALLY. And you may very likely end up paying him Spousal Support.

He does work. Out of the country. Exchange rates diminish salary.
How do I legally prove adultery? Take a picture of the two together? But then that would be another breach of privacy correct? And taking the picture would be rather impossible (out of country, unless we spend $$$ getting a private investigator? But golly, college is $$$$$).

I'm trying to avoid Spousal Support by using this and also making him initiate the divorce proceedings willingly. Unless there's a better way?

How far back do these go?If you are putting up with it then it doesn't really matter.

These go back 20 years.

Apparently not ACTUAL or there would be police reports and convictions and proof.

It was recorded at a clinic, but not reported to authorities. However, that was 10 years ago and I'm not sure if the clinic still has that.

Enough for what? telephone records only show that calls were made. Not by who. And not what was said.

Darn. Maybe we could use logic and reason it out. Calls made at abnormal hours of the day, etc., etc.?

The KID? You want a child to testify against his parent? ABOUT WHAT? How old is this kid?

Oh, kid hates him, for sure and fully understands the special circumstances The kid's in college. Would testify against father about doing a crap job, etc. (obviously, not going to give actual details). The kid's been preparing for this (impending divorce) for a while. Been recording our arguments (conspicuously, so I assume it's legal? Because spouse knows about it). Also, what spouse says in arguments (that are recorded by the kid with his consent) can be used against him in court right?

Oh really? You are sure of that?

Yeah sure.

Oh good grief. Revenge? How about immaturity? Grow up. Get a divorce. Move on.

Patience. Like I said, underlying reasons bigger than me. Matter of time. But we're not focusing on that .

He could file criminal charges against you and the prosecutor can decide to prosecute and have an arrest warrant issued for you. For a variety of crimes. Depends on what you plan to do with the information and what your "revenge" entails.

Oh, the kid's got that handled.

Ohiogal: Try not to focus on me getting a divorce ASAP. The divorce will happen. Just trying to make my side as strong as possible. I really don't want to give out anymore specific details.

 

[Bali Hai]

Congrats on the win.


Well aware. Yes, I am making the choice to stay with him. It's not a choice that I'm happy with, but we're not talking about the underlying reasons now are we?


He does work. Out of the country. Exchange rates diminish salary.
How do I legally prove adultery? Take a picture of the two together? But then that would be another breach of privacy correct? And taking the picture would be rather impossible (out of country, unless we spend $$$ getting a private investigator? But golly, college is $$$$$).

I'm trying to avoid Spousal Support by using this and also making him initiate the divorce proceedings willingly. Unless there's a better way?


These go back 20 years.


It was recorded at a clinic, but not reported to authorities. However, that was 10 years ago and I'm not sure if the clinic still has that.


Darn. Maybe we could use logic and reason it out. Calls made at abnormal hours of the day, etc., etc.?


Oh, kid hates him, for sure and fully understands the special circumstances The kid's in college. Would testify against father about doing a crap job, etc. (obviously, not going to give actual details). The kid's been preparing for this (impending divorce) for a while. Been recording our arguments (conspicuously, so I assume it's legal? Because spouse knows about it). Also, what spouse says in arguments (that are recorded by the kid with his consent) can be used against him in court right?


Yeah sure.


Patience. Like I said, underlying reasons bigger than me. Matter of time. But we're not focusing on that .


Oh, the kid's got that handled.

Ohiogal: Try not to focus on me getting a divorce ASAP. The divorce will happen. Just trying to make my side as strong as possible. I really don't want to give out anymore specific details.

It was an easy win, she represented the wife.

 

[Ohiogal]

It was an easy win, she represented the wife.

WRONG! But I knew you were going to say that.

 

[FITFatherof2]

What a piece of...work you are. Telephone calls at abnormal hours? Are these calls made overseas at times which could be considered normal hours in that time zone?

Possible abuse ten years ago? So after this "abuse" you stuck around for ten more years? Youre not a victim, but rather a volunteer.

As much garbage as you spew about your husband it is no wonder your son hates him, the courts will see that.

Being that I went through my divorce in Wa state as well, and since conversations were recorded. I can tell you this. Erase everything! If you do not have his recorded consent on the tape then the recording was illegally obtained, and will do more harm to you ( which may not be a bad thing). Also, your super sluth of a son cannot present his recordings unless the father was asked and gave permission on the recording consenting to the recording.

Wa state is a no fault state, and adultry is considered "legally irrelevant". For all the recordings and phone records that could be easily explained, I would say you have nothing.

Tell you husband to contact me I know of a very good attorney I can refer him to.

 

[Ohiogal]

Congrats on the win.


Well aware. Yes, I am making the choice to stay with him. It's not a choice that I'm happy with, but we're not talking about the underlying reasons now are we?

yeah but it is a choice. Okay? And adultery really doesn't matter.

He does work. Out of the country. Exchange rates diminish salary.

But he is working.

How do I legally prove adultery? Take a picture of the two together? But then that would be another breach of privacy correct? And taking the picture would be rather impossible (out of country, unless we spend $$$ getting a private investigator? But golly, college is $$$$$).

legally you could prove it by her getting pregnant and him being legally adjudicated the child's father. that is IRONCLAD proof. Taking a picture of them together in a public place wouldn't necessarily prove it. I am in public with other men (not my husband) all the time. And also you do not have to legally pay for your ADULT child's college education.

I'm trying to avoid Spousal Support by using this and also making him initiate the divorce proceedings willingly. Unless there's a better way?

Spousal support depends on many things -- the differences in income, the debts and assets and other parts of the divorce.

These go back 20 years.

And are largely IRRELEVANT!

It was recorded at a clinic, but not reported to authorities. However, that was 10 years ago and I'm not sure if the clinic still has that.

IRRELEVANT.

Darn. Maybe we could use logic and reason it out. Calls made at abnormal hours of the day, etc., etc.?

I make calls at abnormal hours as well. Anywhere from 6am to midnight some days. And I have been known to make calls earlier/later depending on the situation.

Oh, kid hates him, for sure and fully understands the special circumstances The kid's in college. Would testify against father about doing a crap job, etc. (obviously, not going to give actual details). The kid's been preparing for this (impending divorce) for a while.

Look it will not come into play quite frankly. This is NOT a custody trial. You and he will still be splitting marital debt and marital property. That is what will happen.

Been recording our arguments (conspicuously, so I assume it's legal? Because spouse knows about it). Also, what spouse says in arguments (that are recorded by the kid with his consent) can be used against him in court right?

yeah. But arguments may not hold much water.

Yeah sure.


Patience. Like I said, underlying reasons bigger than me. Matter of time. But we're not focusing on that .

And you are missing the big point. The longer you are married the more assets you acquire. And the more there is to split.

Oh, the kid's got that handled.

Ummm... okay. Involving your child in this is NOT going to be appreciated by the court even though the child is legally an adult.

Ohiogal: Try not to focus on me getting a divorce ASAP. The divorce will happen. Just trying to make my side as strong as possible. I really don't want to give out anymore specific details.

Then you aren't really going to get accurate advice except to know that holding out when apparently you are the breadwinner is NOT the smart thing to do.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Not only can your husband make a criminal complaint, he, the other woman, and any other person who had their communications illegally intercepted, recorded, or access by you can sue you for each occurance. The illegally obtained evidence is not admissable against him, but would be against you if you attempt to use it or he discovers it.

 

[hopingforthebes]

It was definite abuse; did not report it to authorities because then his life would've been absolutely ruined. We stayed together because back then, the kid didn't want us to divorce. S/he fully regrets that.

I would argue with all of you, but that would be 1) pointless and 2) give away too many details.

Two questions:

1) If I can prove that he can support himself just fine and that I purchased everything (house, car, valuables) and assisted him in buying his house, what sort of other arguments could he make against me (of course, we won't bring up this amateur evidence in court)?

2) What are the trial set-ups for a divorce? I'm not sure if I'm saying it correctly, but when we plead our case, would it be to just one judge? I know there are mediations, but it isn't just that correct?

Fatherof2: Super sleuth of a kid was given consent by father. Thanks for the information about WA state, that was actually helpful.
Oh, if only you knew. That attorney you'd refer him to would turn him down immediately. I'll take you up on that. I really will.

 

[Zigner]

OP - it's quite simple. You will have a run-of-the-mill no-fault divorce, just like thousands of other people. Yours is not a special case and is really no different than happens every day.
If you don't feel you can give further information here, then consult with a divorce attorney with whom you would have attorney/client confidence.

 

[Silverplum]

Zig's right. This is no big deal, and you are not James Bond.

Here's a link to WA's family law site on divorce basics:
http://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/WA/StateChannelResults.cfm/County/ /City/ /demoMode/= 1/Language/1/State/WA/TextOnly/N/ZipCode/ /LoggedIn/0/iSubTopicID/1/iProblemCodeID/1320200/sTopicImage/familyjuvenile.gif/iTopicID/862/ichannelid/7/bAllState/0

 

[Ohiogal]

It was definite abuse; did not report it to authorities because then his life would've been absolutely ruined. We stayed together because back then, the kid didn't want us to divorce. S/he fully regrets that.

No it was not abuse because you have no proof of it and it happened ten years ago and therefore has no relevance at all.

I would argue with all of you, but that would be 1) pointless and 2) give away too many details.

I agree. it would be pointless because you will NEVER understand.

Two questions:

1) If I can prove that he can support himself just fine and that I purchased everything (house, car, valuables) and assisted him in buying his house, what sort of other arguments could he make against me (of course, we won't bring up this amateur evidence in court)?

He is entitled to HALF of all items purchased during the marriage, half of all retirement funds that accrued during the marriage, half of all bank accounts, half of all stocks and bonds, half of all property (real and personal), half of everything. Just like you are. If it was purchased during the marriage or accrued during the marriage then it is most likely marital property.

2) What are the trial set-ups for a divorce? I'm not sure if I'm saying it correctly, but when we plead our case, would it be to just one judge? I know there are mediations, but it isn't just that correct?

There will be a judge presiding who will follow the law.

 

[Bali Hai]

There will be a judge presiding who will follow the law.

And the law gives that presiding judge the discretion to shove it up. But that won't happen.