Credit card debt all in ex's name

[itsangie]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I was married for 6 years and during that time my ex husband ran up almost 50,000 dollars in credit card debt! I was not aware of much of this and am not a signer on any of the cards. I understand I live in a community property state. I was laid off in April, have four kids and have not been able to afford an attorney through this process. We had our MSC yesterday and he and his lawyer have proposed I begin paying my half back 1 yr. after I get another job at 0% interest. We did not set a timeframe for payback or an amount..only that we would agree on an amount when time came. The last card has not been been paid on for over a year and I requested he try to get balance reduced as I know credit card companies are working with you to get at least something. My research has led me to believe that if I still cannot do it I could file chapter 13 and include my equalization payment in that...so after so much time I would be done. First, is that correct and am I also understanding that I could not include this payment in a chapter 7 filing? If I chose to take this to trial is it likely a judge would make me pay half?

Thanks!

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I was married for 6 years and during that time my ex husband ran up almost 50,000 dollars in credit card debt! I was not aware of much of this and am not a signer on any of the cards. I understand I live in a community property state. I was laid off in April, have four kids and have not been able to afford an attorney through this process. We had our MSC yesterday and he and his lawyer have proposed I begin paying my half back 1 yr. after I get another job at 0% interest. We did not set a timeframe for payback or an amount..only that we would agree on an amount when time came. The last card has not been been paid on for over a year and I requested he try to get balance reduced as I know credit card companies are working with you to get at least something. My research has led me to believe that if I still cannot do it I could file chapter 13 and include my equalization payment in that...so after so much time I would be done. First, is that correct and am I also understanding that I could not include this payment in a chapter 7 filing? If I chose to take this to trial is it likely a judge would make me pay half?

Thanks!

50k worth of stuff/benefit came into your house and you never noticed? That is not a good excuse. You would be responsible for half the debt roughly. If you tried to include it in a bankruptcy you could find your ex filing a motion to show cause against you if you were ordered to pay him x amount a month. it is likely that you would be held liable for half the marital debt. Without other info no one can say whether you would be held liable for this specific 25k or not. What assets are there in the marriage?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I was married for 6 years and during that time my ex husband ran up almost 50,000 dollars in credit card debt! I was not aware of much of this and am not a signer on any of the cards. I understand I live in a community property state. I was laid off in April, have four kids and have not been able to afford an attorney through this process. We had our MSC yesterday and he and his lawyer have proposed I begin paying my half back 1 yr. after I get another job at 0% interest. We did not set a timeframe for payback or an amount..only that we would agree on an amount when time came. The last card has not been been paid on for over a year and I requested he try to get balance reduced as I know credit card companies are working with you to get at least something. My research has led me to believe that if I still cannot do it I could file chapter 13 and include my equalization payment in that...so after so much time I would be done. First, is that correct and am I also understanding that I could not include this payment in a chapter 7 filing? If I chose to take this to trial is it likely a judge would make me pay half?

Thanks!

Do you know what he spent the money on? Is there anything tangible as a result of the spending?

 

[itsangie]

I am not saying I was not aware of all of it, but I thought we were around $10,000. We own really nothing...I mean we rented the house that I still reside in, we had two car payments one that is now paid off and he kept and one that was sold. We don't have much.....that is what is making me crazy. The house is small and nothing in it is expensive, lavish etc. Money was always very tight and when I would express a concern over a bill etc he would say it would be taken care of. I did not realize this much use of credit cards was used to pay off regular living etc. We took one bigger vacation the whole time and that was to Mexico where he had a timeshare.

 

[LdiJ]

I am not saying I was not aware of all of it, but I thought we were around $10,000. We own really nothing...I mean we rented the house that I still reside in, we had two car payments one that is now paid off and he kept and one that was sold. We don't have much.....that is what is making me crazy. The house is small and nothing in it is expensive, lavish etc. Money was always very tight and when I would express a concern over a bill etc he would say it would be taken care of. I did not realize this much use of credit cards was used to pay off regular living etc. We took one bigger vacation the whole time and that was to Mexico where he had a timeshare.

You may want to insist upon seeing records of the purchases prior to agreeing to pay a specific share of the bills. My mind is blank at the moment but there is a legal term referencing the misappropriation or wasting of marital assets...or creation of marital debt, that can possibly mitigate some of the debt and throw it back on him.

50k is a LOT of debt to rack up in 6 years, on purely credit cards.

 

[Golfball]

Dissipation?

 

[LdiJ]

Dissipation?

Yes! That was the word I was looking for...I can't believe my mind went blank like that.

 

[Ronin]

50k is a LOT of debt to rack up in 6 years, on purely credit cards.

It's really not that much in 6 years and the type of debt that can creep up a lot of folks very easily. Consistently living a few hundred dollars a month above ones means, then fallling behind on payments and getting slapped with 30% interest can do a lot of damage to the outstanding balance.

 

[LdiJ]

It's really not that much in 6 years and the type of debt that can creep up a lot of folks very easily. Consistently living a few hundred dollars a month above ones means, then fallling behind on payments and getting slapped with 30% interest can do a lot of damage to the outstanding balance.

That's true, but I still think its worth finding out exactly where the money went.

 

[Ohiogal]

That's true, but I still think its worth finding out exactly where the money went.

but that would not be dissipation. It is debt. It is debt during the marriage. They may not have a lot but if the utilities and such were paid on credit cards and they ate dinners out and such....

 

[Bali Hai]

but that would not be dissipation. It is debt. It is debt during the marriage. They may not have a lot but if the utilities and such were paid on credit cards and they ate dinners out and such....

You're absolutely correct OG.

LD is advising OP to go on a fishing expedition (that the husband would probably end up paying for) and would not even suggest this if it were the wife who ran up the debt.

 

[LdiJ]

but that would not be dissipation. It is debt. It is debt during the marriage. They may not have a lot but if the utilities and such were paid on credit cards and they ate dinners out and such....

That, of course, would not be dissipation. However the way the OP described things, they never had much money or "stuff"..therefore there is a chance that he might have been spending money on something that would be dissipation. Its simply worth checking out.

 

[Ohiogal]

That, of course, would not be dissipation. However the way the OP described things, they never had much money or "stuff"..therefore there is a chance that he might have been spending money on something that would be dissipation. Its simply worth checking out.

Please quit. YOu do not understand the legal definition of dissipation:
The use of an asset for an illegal or inequitable purpose such as a spouse's use of community property for personal benefit when a divorce is imminent.

She is NOT going to be able to prove that all that debt is dissipation. When divorce is filed she may be able to prove a SMALL portion of it in the few months IMMEDIATELY preceding the divorce was filed and even that is doubtful as he wasn't spending it to give himself an inequitable amount.
If they didn't have much money or stuff but had gas, electric, cars that ran, insurance and the likes that could account for a big part of that chunk. How much did they eat out? how much did they travel?
What types of gifts did they buy family for Christmas and birthdays? Did either of them gamble? What type of food did they eat at home? There are tons of ways that 50k could have been accumulated in the last 6 years (less than 9k a year).Just because he spent money and they don't have material things does NOT mean dissipation. Why was she NOT keeping track of the debt load during the marriage? She has responsibilities. They also had four kids in the household. So how many times did the kids get new clothes? How many times did they get toys or anything else?

You jumped strictly and directly to hubby was doing something wrong and dissipating assets. Yet prove that he was doing something illegal with the money. Was she an authorized user? How much did she use it?

 

[Ohiogal]

I am not saying I was not aware of all of it, but I thought we were around $10,000. We own really nothing...I mean we rented the house that I still reside in, we had two car payments one that is now paid off and he kept and one that was sold. We don't have much.....that is what is making me crazy. The house is small and nothing in it is expensive, lavish etc. Money was always very tight and when I would express a concern over a bill etc he would say it would be taken care of. I did not realize this much use of credit cards was used to pay off regular living etc. We took one bigger vacation the whole time and that was to Mexico where he had a timeshare.

And there is the 50k -- regular living for six people and vacationing in Mexico at a timeshare -- which has yearly fees associated with it. That is NOT dissipation. Maybe she should have been more aware of the finances of HER home. What do you consider a SMALL house square footage wise with six people?

 

[Ohiogal]

Oh I was wrong about going a few months back:
139 Cal.App.4th 712
IN RE MARRIAGE OF JANET E. AND RONALD W. BURKLE. JANET E. BURKLE, APPELLANT, v. RONALD W. BURKLE, RESPONDENT.
139 Cal.App.4th 712, 43 Cal.Rptr.3d 181, 2006 Daily Journal D.A.R. 5978, 06 Cal. Daily Op. Serv. 4104, 2006.CA.0004143

[158] First, section 2100 states the Legislature's findings and declarations. The first policy declared by the Legislature is to marshal and preserve community assets "that exist at the date of separation so as to avoid dissipation of the community estate before distribution . . . ." (Fam. Code, § 2100, subd. (a)(1).) The second policy is to ensure fair and sufficient child and spousal support awards, and the third is to achieve a division of community assets as provided under California law "on the dissolution or nullity of marriage or legal separation of the parties . . . ." (Fam. Code, § 2100, subds. (a)(2) & (3).) The Legislature further states that sound public policy "favors the reduction of the adversarial nature of marital dissolution and the attendant costs by fostering full disclosure and cooperative discovery." (Fam. Code, § 2100, subd. (b).) From these stated policies, it is apparent that the asset disclosures required by the statute are attendant upon the separation of the parties and the imminent dissolution of the marriage, whether after a trial or by agreement of the parties.

In other words, dissipation occurs AFTER the date of separation and during the divorce but not just anytime during the marriage. The fact is that DIVORCE must be imminent. So when did OP and hubby separate? When was divorce filed? She should investigate expenditures during THAT time period to see about dissipation. Before that it is community and half her debt.