Divorce, Remarriage and crazy divorce decree

[bebe333]

What is the name of your state? Illinois

I am seeking advice because my fiance's ex is a complete nightmare. He seems to get along with her for his daughter's sake, but we would appreciate some advice. In his divorce decree it states that "both parties agree to equally divide all of the Respondent's (my fiance) employment and retirement benefits at any and all employers, this includes but is not limited to the Respondent's Pension Paln, Profit Sharing, 401K, IRA or any other employees plan or any retirement benefit. Both parties shall cooperate in the drafting of a Qualified Domestic Relations Order to effectuate said intent. The Plan Administrator shall direct the Trustee of the plan to Petitioner, after the Plan Administrator is satisfied that there is a Qualified Domestic Relations Order. It is both parties' understanding the Petitioner, as the alternate payee, may elect any of the available pay-out options under the terms of the Plan and that she may elect to receive her benefits at the earliest possible time permitted by the Plan, including survivor benefits. Respondent agrees to equally divide with Petitioner any retirement bonus, golden parachute payment, early separation incentive, or any toher such benefit other than his ordinary compensation that the Respondent should receive from any and all emplayers at the termination of his emplyment. Respondent shall cooperate with the Petitioner and promptly execute any document necessary for the Petitioner to obtain any retirement benefit that she might be entitled to obtain. This includes but is not limited to social security, pension plans and the like." Is this binding after my fiance and I are married?? Is that legal?? And is there any way to change that??? As his wife I thought I have to be the beneficiary on any retirement, and that there is a signature required by his wife to name anyone else. If that is true, do I have to sign it and what would happen if I didn't??
Thanks for your help in this matter.

 

[ellencee]

If this is already an order of the court, then it stands whether or not you marry this man. He agreed to it and did not give himself any avenue for change.

His ex is no more responsible for this "nightmare" for you than he is.

EC

 

[nextwife]

WHAT was he thinking? Why would he agree to give her half of all retirement he ever earns SUBSEQUENT to the marriage termination? Does he, in turn, get half of whatever SHE acquires in retirement subsequent to the marriage?

guess he'd better save more in regular savings instead of 401K if he wishes the two of you to have more retirement funds together. And you'd better plan on saving to the max in YOUR 401K, and taking the max available IRA, even if not deductable, for yourself. And buy life insurance yourself against him so you, too, are covered.

I'm stunned that anyone would agree to give away half of all FUTURE retirement, etc. after a divorce.

 

[ellencee]

nextwife

I'm stunned that anyone would agree to give away half of all FUTURE retirement, etc. after a divorce.

Me, too--unless the ex's job was to be a homemaker throughout the marriage, which is a most important job but leaves the homemaker with no employee benefits.
EC

 

[snodderly]

I'm stunned that anyone would agree to give away half of all FUTURE retirement, etc. after a divorce.

Hmmm, what do you suppose would motivate someone to agree to such a thing? Maybe guilt, maybe it was a long term marriage and she had stayed at home and raised the kids and then he wanted out?

I can't even imagine a judge signing such an order UNLESS the judge knew that the circumstances around the case warranted the ex wife getting a portion of his future retirement. Whoever she is, I'm thinking this ex wife is one smart cookie who knew how to take care of herself in a divorce.
snodderly

 

[bebe333]

Is there any way to get that part changed?? Or is it binding? I am not convinced that it is lawful, but I don't really know. If anyone knows for sure, let me know.

Thanks

 

[bebe333]

to snodderly

Actually, the ex wife cheated on my fiance. He only filed for divorce because she wouldn't do it. The whole having your cake thing. They were separated for 2 years before the divorce occurred. I don't know that the copy of the decree that I have is the final draft. We are looking for the signed one.

 

[nextwife]

nextwife

Me, too--unless the ex's job was to be a homemaker throughout the marriage, which is a most important job but leaves the homemaker with no employee benefits.
EC

Well, sure that explains why she should get half of what accrued in his retirement DURING the marriage, but he could be remarried for a quarter century after that marriage. They won't be little forever. Basically, from age 4-5 they are in school at least half a day.

He should definately have an attorney look this over. I'm not entirely sure he can waive a future spouse's future marital property rights. This is sort of like a prenup that the second spouse never signs, waiving her rights to half the retirement funds acquired during his marriage to her.

 

[bebe333]

This is sort of like a prenup that the second spouse never signs, waiving her rights to half the retirement funds acquired during his marriage to her.

He has already cashed that 401k out. He took care of what he had to with her, but what happens if he decided to join his current employers 401k plan now?? Does that mean she is the beneficiary of the plan too, even though they are not married and the plan did not occur during their marriage? And what happens if, after my fiance and I are married, I don't sign the waiver? Does anyone know??

 

[ellencee]

I'm not entirely sure he can waive a future spouse's future marital property rights.

He is only entitled to half of any future 401Ks and that type of thing because of the court order. There is nothing stopping a future wife from claiming half of what is his, that being the half not going to his ex-wife.

Actually, the ex wife cheated on my fiance. He only filed for divorce because she wouldn't do it. The whole having your cake thing. They were separated for 2 years before the divorce occurred.

Not relevant; the marriage ended in divorce and the division of property has been signed into a court order. It's over and done.

Is there any way to get that part changed?? Or is it binding? I am not convinced that it is lawful, but I don't really know. If anyone knows for sure, let me know.

NO. Yes. It is. OK.

but he could be remarried for a quarter century after that marriage.

Yes; or longer! I'm betting he didn't have an attorney or if he did, it resembled a fern.

EC

 

[nextwife]

Yes; or longer! I'm betting he didn't have an attorney or if he did, it resembled a fern.

EC

Actually I envision an attorney who was less alive than a fern. Maybe a rock.

 

[bebe333]

I know that the ex wife knows nothing about that clause, and that the Qualified Order has never been drafted. It also says in the decree that if any changes are made outside of court, they have to be in writing (I am paraphrasing, but that is the gist). So if the ex wife signs something that says that the only 401k, IRA, etc that is/was to be divided would be what he had while they were married, can that override?? We are having her sign a change to the original child visitation schedule and her agreed upon amount for child support.
Supposedly this was a standard form for the Agreement for the Dissolution of Marriage. Believe me, the ex is not that smart so I know she doesn't know everything that is in it.

 

[bebe333]

I guess the other option is for us to just have savings accounts in his name, and I will have all the retirement accounts. He doesn't even want to join into his companies 401k/retirement program because he knows that she will get half. He is going to have an attorney look it over and see what can be done, if anything. grrr... this is frustrating.

 

[ellencee]

bebe333
You are leading your fiance down the road to destruction. His ex is not going to sit by and let you take away her children, the children's support, and her awarded retirement/savings benefits. The court isn't going to let you do it, either. Keep pushing this and you stand to be blamed for making things worse on your fiance and you may find yourself out the door and out of the relationship.

You may think the ex is not very intelligent, but I assure you, she is smart enough to keep you from taking away what is now rightfully hers and she will not submit to your manipulation of her life or her children's lives. Neither will the court. You are likely to face a very angry judge who tells you to sit down, shut up, and stay out of these affairs. You are likely to be the reason a judge issues an order that your fiance MUST enroll in all of the savings/retirement plans; as a matter of fact, I believe the current order will be interpreted as such and no change will be made because your fiance decided to marry again.

Don't marry this man if you can't leave alone his ex and everything related to his ex and his children. There will never be any peace for him or for you. Your best bet for a happy life and a financially secure life is to support your fiance's efforts to be just and honest and compliant with all orders.

EC

 

[nextwife]

Although, his voluntary contributions into the plan are discretionary and, at least in my plan, can go from nothing to 15%. HE is NOT required to defer the maximum into his 401K, even were he to never remarry. Perhaps he feels he can do better having use of the discretionary contribution funds and investing them himself.

I doubt this ridiculous agreement can be changed. But a woman who has been divorced for decades PRIOR to retirement should NOT be relying solely upon what an ex husband is voluntarily stashing or not stashing away for retirement funds. IF the agreement REQUIRES a minimum contribution, then he is required to comply.

Not only that, but he is paying her CS on income that he is putting away for HER retirement!