Does the court care about how we split property if we don't ask to rule on it?

[hrast]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona

My wife and I are jointly working on our divorce paperwork. We won't use any attorneys. We will come to the court together and file the paperwork this Friday. We agreed on how to split our assets and debt and everything else. Each of us only has some credit card debt and I have an auto loan while my wife's car is paid off. We also have various assets but we can't/won't report most (out of country bank savings accounts in parents' names, for example).

The plan is as follows:
We will ask the court just to dissolve our marriage but not to rule on anything else. We will list only some debt and some assets in the paperwork and indicate how we decided to split them. Our intention is to make sure the split of community property appears fair to the court. Will the court even care how we split the community property given that we won't ask for a ruling on this?
Because of many assets we can't report as mentioned earlier, most of which my wife gets, it would appear an unfair split of community property if we listed everything else we have. Therefore, we decided not to list my 401k account that we agreed I would keep, some of mine and her credit card debt, and my auto loan besides those other assets that we can't report.

My questions:
(1) Should we expect the court to give us any problems?
(2) What could happen if my wife (the petitioner) is actually just playing me and changes her mind AFTER filling the paperwork and goes after me in some way?
(3) If (2) is the case, is there something I could do to protect myself? For example, we both sign an additional document where we acknowledge what we did and have it notarized - we just don't include it in the submited paperwork, of course, but keep it for our protection if other person changes his/her mind later.

Let me emphasize that none of us is hiding any assets or debt from each other. It's just that we can not list all our assets (for different reasons) and without most asset listed it would appear an unfair split of community property, hence intention to list only select debt and assets, but then again doesn the court even care?

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona

My wife and I are jointly working on our divorce paperwork. We won't use any attorneys. We will come to the court together and file the paperwork this Friday. We agreed on how to split our assets and debt and everything else. Each of us only has some credit card debt and I have an auto loan while my wife's car is paid off. We also have various assets but we can't/won't report most (out of country bank savings accounts in parents' names, for example).

The plan is as follows:
We will ask the court just to dissolve our marriage but not to rule on anything else. We will list only some debt and some assets in the paperwork and indicate how we decided to split them. Our intention is to make sure the split of community property appears fair to the court. Will the court even care how we split the community property given that we won't ask for a ruling on this?
Because of many assets we can't report as mentioned earlier, most of which my wife gets, it would appear an unfair split of community property if we listed everything else we have. Therefore, we decided not to list my 401k account that we agreed I would keep, some of mine and her credit card debt, and my auto loan besides those other assets that we can't report.

My questions:
(1) Should we expect the court to give us any problems?
(2) What could happen if my wife (the petitioner) is actually just playing me and changes her mind AFTER filling the paperwork and goes after me in some way?
(3) If (2) is the case, is there something I could do to protect myself? For example, we both sign an additional document where we acknowledge what we did and have it notarized - we just don't include it in the submited paperwork, of course, but keep it for our protection if other person changes his/her mind later.

Let me emphasize that none of us is hiding any assets or debt from each other. It's just that we can not list all our assets (for different reasons) and without most asset listed it would appear an unfair split of community property, hence intention to list only select debt and assets, but then again doesn the court even care?

I think you're asking for trouble. If you don't settle matters legally, they can come back to bite you later. Look at all the posts in this board from people who thought that their own agreement was sufficient - and then found out years later that they wish they had done it properly.

The court is not likely to reject what you submit to them if you're both in agreement. In some circumstances (such as if there are minor children and it doesn't look like they're properly supported), the court might refuse to accept a negotiated agreement, but it would be highly unusual.

So let's say that you present your plan to the court, leaving out your heirloom widget collection that you have verbally agreed goes to you. After the divorce is final, she can come back to court and ask for her share of the collection because it's not addressed in the initial agreement. Even if you have a written agreement on the matter, division of assets is a divorce court matter and they are not bound by your written agreement. Furthermore, if you hide things from the court, the entire settlement could be open to question.

Unless your assets are illegal, there's little reason to leave them out of the settlement you propose to the court. You have a lot to lose and little to gain by playing the hiding game. Why would you want to try to hide everything from the court if you've already agreed on how you're going to split things?

If you really want to go down that path, you need not one, but two good attorneys (one for each of you). I'm sure there are ways that they can minimize your exposure, but it is still going to involve some risk and significant added legal expense.

 

[LdiJ]

While I agree with the other response, if you actually divide all your assets and debts the way that you want them divided, BEFORE you file for divorce. Then you honestly don't have to address assets and debts at all in the divorce.

You can simply state that the parties have already divided assets and debts to their satisfaction, and leave it at that.

As long as neither one of you are hiding anything from the other, that can be sufficient.

You might even want to consider drawing up a private "contract" of sorts, that you don't submit to the court, but that you both sign off on. That will provide evidence that you can submit in court, in the future, proving that nothing was hidden, should one of you decide to change your mind.

 

[Bali Hai]

While I agree with the other response, if you actually divide all your assets and debts the way that you want them divided, BEFORE you file for divorce. Then you honestly don't have to address assets and debts at all in the divorce.

You can simply state that the parties have already divided assets and debts to their satisfaction, and leave it at that.

As long as neither one of you are hiding anything from the other, that can be sufficient.

You might even want to consider drawing up a private "contract" of sorts, that you don't submit to the court, but that you both sign off on. That will provide evidence that you can submit in court, in the future, proving that nothing was hidden, should one of you decide to change your mind.

They don't have lawyers. If they divide everything how THEY want it, chances are that when the sharks enter the picture, there will be a feeding frenzy.

Voice of experience!!

 

[hrast]

We are able to agree on everything BEOFRE filling for the divorce. So is it possible that we don't address division of property at all on the paperwork, leave these sections ampty? Is this legal?

 

[Ohiogal]

We are able to agree on everything BEOFRE filling for the divorce. So is it possible that we don't address division of property at all on the paperwork, leave these sections ampty? Is this legal?

You need to address it even if you address it as simply as:
The parties have divided all debt and assets to their mutual satisfaction.

That is addressing it.

 

[mistoffolees]

You need to address it even if you address it as simply as:
The parties have divided all debt and assets to their mutual satisfaction.

That is addressing it.

That will make the court happy, but there's still a risk of ending up back there. I would also go with LdiJ's suggestion. Make up a list of all the assets and how they are divided and sign and notarize the list. This would be for each party to keep in their files.

Then, put the wording that you've suggested in the divorce filing.

That will prevent one party from coming back 2 years later and claiming that the OP hid assets.

 

[LdiJ]

That will make the court happy, but there's still a risk of ending up back there. I would also go with LdiJ's suggestion. Make up a list of all the assets and how they are divided and sign and notarize the list. This would be for each party to keep in their files.

Then, put the wording that you've suggested in the divorce filing.

That will prevent one party from coming back 2 years later and claiming that the OP hid assets.

That is what my ex and I did in our divorce. We simply stated that assets and debts were divided to our satisfaction. We didn't sign a private contract/list, but it was never a problem for us.

 

[mistoffolees]

That is what my ex and I did in our divorce. We simply stated that assets and debts were divided to our satisfaction. We didn't sign a private contract/list, but it was never a problem for us.

I would never encourage anyone to rely on a verbal agreement in a divorce situation. Things can become too volatile too quickly. The fact that it worked out OK in a few cases doesn't mean it's not high risk.

 

[seniorjudge]

We are able to agree on everything BEOFRE filling for the divorce. So is it possible that we don't address division of property at all on the paperwork, leave these sections ampty? Is this legal?

Not only is that perfectly legal, it is done all the time.

HOWEVER, as several other posters have pointed out, if it is not done 100% correctly, then it can cause expensive problems for years to come.

 

[hrast]

That is what my ex and I did in our divorce. We simply stated that assets and debts were divided to our satisfaction. We didn't sign a private contract/list, but it was never a problem for us.

We just did that as I type this but we have technical challanges, where to state this. In the paperwork (Consent Decree) there is a section called Exibit A. Instead of listing what we have, how to split, etc we wrote at the top of all those pages the suggested verbage with both of our signatures next to it. Is there a better way or place to state this?

We just signed a private contract too to prevent any issues in the future.

 

[seniorjudge]

We just did that as I type this but we have technical challanges, where to state this. In the paperwork (Consent Decree) there is a section called Exibit A. Instead of listing what we have, how to split, etc we wrote at the top of all those pages the suggested verbage with both of our signatures next to it. Is there a better way or place to state this?

We just signed a private contract too to prevent any issues in the future.

Sounds good to me...but the court is the one who has to approve it; not us.

 

[hrast]

Sounds good to me...but the court is the one who has to approve it; not us.

This is good news! Thank you!

Our other agreement looks like this:

City, Date

Subject: Division of debt and assets

This document represents mutually satisfying agreement on division of debt and assets between X and Y for the purpose of dissolution of marriage (divorce). It compliments statements made in section Exhibit A of the Consent Decree about to be filled that “all debt and assets have been divided to both parties mutual satisfaction”.
...
Debt: ...
Assets: ...
- Each party gets the money in their respective bank or brokerage accounts.
- Each party gets their respective retirement account(s).
- Each party gets their respective (titled) motor vehicle.
...
Names, signed & notarized

Looks ok? This is just for us for protecting not to be included in the document filed to the court.

 

[seniorjudge]

As I earlier pointed out, it will depend on the court's approval.

 

[hrast]

As I earlier pointed out, it will depend on the court's approval.

Thank you! What would the court's approval depend on?

On one other question:
We would like to get formally divorced just after new year so we can file for taxes jointly. We are going to file this Friday. Is this too soon if we don't want to be formally divorced before the year end?