Engagement Ring return

[kennethhoff]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina

I know the returning a engagement ring if the marriage does not happen is dependent upon each state's law. I am wondering what it is in North Carolina, and just as important, where does it specifically say that? Is there a statute or Case law that anyone can point me too?

Thank you

[seniorjudge]

You gave her the ring.

It was a gift.

She keeps the ring.

That's the law in 50 states.

[mistoffolees]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

You gave her the ring.

It was a gift.

She keeps the ring.

That's the law in 50 states.

To go even one step further, you can't even count it as marital property (at least in my state - I don't know if that's universal or not) because it was a gift.

[nextwife]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

You gave her the ring.

It was a gift.

She keeps the ring.

That's the law in 50 states.

Your honor, I've heard differently: an engagment ring is NOT a gift, it is consideration given in anticipation of marriage, of a type of contract (the tradition of marriage as contract goes back over 2000 years, the Jewish Ketubbah, as example). It is, in essence the marital equivilant of earnest money - to bind an agreement to marry.

I also understand that the Etiquette Police consider the issue of WHO broke the agreement as a factor in who keeps the ring, just like a default in a real estate agreement can affect who can have the earnest money.

[Nevergrowup]

I'm confused. Is the OP saying they were engaged and broke up, or married and broke up? Because I assume legally it is 2 different things?

A gift in contemplation of marriage and the marriage never happens must be returned.

A gift in contemplation of marriage and that marriage occurs is different...that is a done deal, gift, over and out.

Right?

[nextwife]

Originally Posted by Nevergrowup

I'm confused. Is the OP saying they were engaged and broke up, or married and broke up? Because I assume legally it is 2 different things?

A gift in contemplation of marriage and the marriage never happens must be returned.

A gift in contemplation of marriage and that marriage occurs is different...that is a done deal, gift, over and out.

Right?

Yes, if the marriage takes place it is a different issue, because it was not given in exchange for a promise to wed, it is property now held because of having wed.

I guess the poster needs to clarify if he/she is referring to the ring before or after the ceremony.

[mistoffolees]

Originally Posted by nextwife

Your honor, I've heard differently: an engagment ring is NOT a gift, it is consideration given in anticipation of marriage, of a type of contract (the tradition of marriage as contract goes back over 2000 years, the Jewish Ketubbah, as example). It is, in essence the marital equivilant of earnest money - to bind an agreement to marry.

Jewish law also says that the bride's family has to give the groom 3 goats and a cow. If she didn't do that, she is supposed to suffer penalties. For that matter, if she's not a virgin at the time of marriage, Jewish law says he can publicly denounce her and get his ring back. Is that reasonable?

It's a gift.

Originally Posted by nextwife

I also understand that the Etiquette Police consider the issue of WHO broke the agreement as a factor in who keeps the ring, just like a default in a real estate agreement can affect who can have the earnest money.

Fortunately, the courts are not bound by the etiquette police.

[SopranoKris]

Doesn't it seem a bit petty to want the ring back? I can understand if was a family heirloom passed down through the years, but simply wanting it back because the marriage is over? Do you want the ring itself back or do you want the VALUE of the ring back?

[2Mistakes]

[url]http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/marriage-more/broken-engagement.html[/url]

Interesting reading, if nothing else.

[2Mistakes]

Another interesting article:

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/01/07/diamond.not.forever/index.html[/url]

It would be great to know if the OP actually got married or not. I re-read his OP, and it sounds to me like the marriage never took place.

[kennethhoff]

But where is the statute or case law that actually says this? This is what I'm trying to find.

[2Mistakes]

OP, did you ever get married or was the engagement broken?

[Bali Hai]

Originally Posted by mistoffolees

Jewish law also says that the bride's family has to give the groom 3 goats and a cow. If she didn't do that, she is supposed to suffer penalties. For that matter, if she's not a virgin at the time of marriage, Jewish law says he can publicly denounce her and get his ring back. Is that reasonable?

Yes, anything that forces women to be responsible is reasonable.

I understand that OK law allows for a public beating of the wife once per month in the town square.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by SopranoKris

Doesn't it seem a bit petty to want the ring back? I can understand if was a family heirloom passed down through the years, but simply wanting it back because the marriage is over? Do you want the ring itself back or do you want the VALUE of the ring back?

If he wants the value back, he is going to be sadly disappointed if he does get it back. Unless it could still be returned to the store where it was purchased, the resale value is about 20% of what he paid for it.

[mistoffolees]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

If he wants the value back, he is going to be sadly disappointed if he does get it back. Unless it could still be returned to the store where it was purchased, the resale value is about 20% of what he paid for it.

Unless he plans to give it to his next fiancee. If he's tacky enough to make an issue of getting it back, it wouldn't surprise me for him to recycle it.