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Germans getting divorced in Germany - what happens to CA lot

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rosenkrieg

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

We are both Germans and live back in Germany. We have been married for 17 years.

A couple of years ago we jointly bought an empty lot for later retirement in California (Tuolumne Cty), paid for out of my funds. No mortgage on the lot.
Wife committed adultery last summer, still is with her friend and then moved out in December. Seems like divorce will happen later this year.
I plan to later sell the CA lot to fund building a house elsewhere.

We are negotiating a separation agreement in Germany whereby she would deed her 50% of the lot over to me in exchange for some shares. It looks like she will sign the agreement which raises the following questions.

What kind of deed would we have to use such that I then own the lot 100% and can later sell the lot without having to ask for her consent or having to pay her a share ?

What special language/phrasing would have to be in the deed ?

Or do we or she need to sign something else in addition to a deed? One real estate lawyer in NC mailed me a "Free Traders Agreement" we should sign in addition to a "General Warranty Deed" for a lot we also own in NC, but I got confused as to if this agreement would work retroactive for property acquired before the FTA was signed, and that lawyer never got back to my answer. So I asked the same question as here for our NC lot in a NC-forum, and there a very helpful lawyer gave me specific wording to put into a "special warranty deed" referencing the German separation agreement and all sorts of NC statutes.

So how could I find someone in CA to help me in a similar way for the CA lot in order to set up the right deed and/or contract to get this transfer done the right way?

Thanks a lot for your help. All of this is difficult enough when you are a native American, but even more so if you are a "resident alien" presetly living in Germany.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
It depends on the GERMAN law that deals with this. But in the US you will not be able to sell this lot without your spouse's permission since it is JOINTLY owned.
 

JETX

Senior Member
What kind of deed would we have to use such that I then own the lot 100% and can later sell the lot without having to ask for her consent or having to pay her a share?
Ohiogal is NOT correct on this as it has NOTHING to do with German law.

If you really REALLY want it done correctly (and you do since you only have ONE shot at this), contact a California attorney and have him draft a valid 'Quit Claim' deed for the property. Have your wife sign it in front of a US Notary (at the local US embassy in Germany).

Another possible option... Go to the following site and Enter 'notary services' at the following site (upper right corner) and you will get a list of local (German) attorneys who offer notary services. Since it is a simple jurat service, you can contact them and see if their notary service would be valid in California.
http://germany.usembassy.gov/

Once signed and notarized, file it with the county clerk in Tuolumne county.
 
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rosenkrieg

Junior Member
Ohiogal,

are you sure? Why would then anybody in the US make separation agreements covering real estate? I thought this was exactly the reason to do a separation agreement and a corresponding deed to deed property over to one spouse.
Otherwise courts would be full of cases where on party wants to sell his house 20 years after a divorce only to find out the ex doesn't want to consent...
Plus the lawyer in NC found specific wording to put into a deed especially for such a case and he explicitly also stated that the separation agreement referred to in the deed does not have to be an American separation agreement, actually a German separation agreement may be referenced as well and is legally binding.

All I would like is a hint as to how to find someone to draft me a similar deed for CA.

Thanks
 

rosenkrieg

Junior Member
Jetx,

thanks, so I thought.

Any idea what sort of lawyer I need? In NC I was running around in circles as my real-estate lawyer I used back then for closing said I need a family lawyer, and the family lawyers I contacted said I need a real estate lawyer....
Any hint? Any specifics I could search for?
Thanks
 

rosenkrieg

Junior Member
Jetx,
thanks a lot for your help.
Then I will try a real estate lawyer. It was just my experience in NC, that the real estate lawyer I used and a second I called both said I should go to a family lawyer, so I though this might be similar in CA.
Thanks again
 

JETX

Senior Member
It was just my experience in NC, that the real estate lawyer I used and a second I called both said I should go to a family lawyer, so I though this might be similar in CA.
Since you were talking two separate issues, I think you were confused.

'Real Property law' deals with issues of 'real property' (land transfers/sales, easements, deeds, etc.)
'Family law' deals with family issues (divorce, adoption, child support/custody, name changes, etc.).
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Ohiogal is NOT correct on this as it has NOTHING to do with German law.

If you really REALLY want it done correctly (and you do since you only have ONE shot at this), contact a California attorney and have him draft a valid 'Quit Claim' deed for the property. Have your wife sign it in front of a US Notary (at the local US embassy in Germany).

Another possible option... Go to the following site and Enter 'notary services' at the following site (upper right corner) and you will get a list of local (German) attorneys who offer notary services. Since it is a simple jurat service, you can contact them and see if their notary service would be valid in California.
Embassy of the United States - Berlin, Germany: Homepage

Once signed and notarized, file it with the county clerk in Tuolumne county.

They are German citizens who live in Germany with property in California that might be considered in their GERMAN divorce. That has some bearing on it.
 

rosenkrieg

Junior Member
Jetx,
ok I confess that I am confused; This is the reason I posted my qustion in the first place.

From what I understand I need a deed, which contains wording such that the separation of our property is legal. So I probably need a family lawyer to draft the wording which the real estate lawyer then puts into the deed, as we do not intend to sign a seperate separation agreement in CA as we don't live there.
So I guess I have to find a lawyer that does both. Maybe I am lucky to find one. I just had hoped someone here could actually hepl me out and draft such a wording as was possible through a forum in NC.

Would you know a divorce forum in CA?

Thanks
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
You need to hire a real estate lawyer in California.

I know that you will need a certified and translated copy of the judgment from the German court. It will probably need to be recorded in the land deed records in the county where the land is located.

This is a major problem. Not unsolvable but one that must be done right the first time (as JETX said).
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
They are German citizens who live in Germany with property in California that might be considered in their GERMAN divorce. That has some bearing on it.
If I understand the situation properly, if they take the advice that was given (have a CA attorney create a quit claim deed for stbx to sign), that would be binding in the US, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't create problems for OP in Germany. So both of you could be right.

One factor that would matter here is what OP means by saying he bought the property with his own funds. If it was separate money (pre-marital, inheritance, whatever), it would affect the ownership here. I have no idea at all whether it would matter in Germany.
 

rosenkrieg

Junior Member
Thanks to all for your replies.

Don't worry about my situation in Germany, both legally and tax-wise. That is well taken care of by the German notarized seperation agreement which is legally binding an enforcable for all purposes in Germany.
Also there will not be at present a German divorce court ruling, and when this eventually will happen when we divorce then the judge doesn't even bother about our property division because we have previously entered into a marital seperation agreement prior to divorce.

All I am concerned about is having the Toulumne county lot signed over to me (for consideration I pay to my spouse pursuant to the German separation agreement) such, that I never have to worry about later someone in the US wanting my ex to consent to a later sale. My ex wouldn't want to consent anyway, to her all that US law stuff is alien to start with. But I want to be sure when I sell the lot in 10 years no escrow company or lawyer or god knows who can stop the sale as he first wants a consent of my wife, whereupon she then might get appetite for extra money...

Thanks again for your input.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
I don't know anything about German law.

But the GENERAL rule is that a quit claim deed from one spouse to the other while they are still married is not valid to get rid of the deeding spouse's marital interest.

That is why you need a California lawyer to guide you in this.
 

rosenkrieg

Junior Member
One factor that would matter here is what OP means by saying he bought the property with his own funds. If it was separate money (pre-marital, inheritance, whatever), it would affect the ownership here. I have no idea at all whether it would matter in Germany.
Just to clarify: we bought the property with options and shares I got from my US employer and which were deposited into an account owned only by me. When we bought the lot jointly I had a tax adviser check if that would create a gift tax, but it didn't due to high allowances. However, I would think this is irrelevant anyway, as all property acquired during marriage no matter by whom is owned by both with the exeption of gifts, which options and shares given by an employer unfortunately are not. I guess this rule pretty much is the same in all US states as well as in Germany, that's why I have to pay her so much.

Thanks again
 

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