To hire a lawyer, or not to hire a lawyer? That is the question...

[Stephenopolis]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ILLINOIS

Hello,

I know this is long, but this is kind of complicated, so I don't want to leave aspects out.


My wife is from Scandinavia. We met a few times, got engaged, and eventually married (in Illinois, Kane County). After a little more than 1/2 year living together, she decided she needed a break. She told me she was leaving but would return, and went to stay with a friend in another state while she was reconsidering everything. There she stayed for about 3 or 4 months while I was sending her money the entire time to support her. She then told me she wasn't coming back, and next thing I knew, she was back in Scandinavia.

Her angry family members began threatening me, that if I didn't give her a giant sum of money to compensate for her incurred expenses (plane ticket, moving back, etc...) that he'd come after me with legal force to get it (They threatened big, but I really believe they don't have a leg to stand on). Anyway, I received a document from her country that as of last October, we were officially separated in her country (which as far as I know, does not apply here in the U.S.). In her country, 1 year of legal separation is required before a divorce is allowed. To my understanding, we will officially be divorced in October this year (again, only in her country, which I believe does not apply here).

There are no children (thank goodness), and there is no mortgage (thank goodness). We barely owned anything together, and I wasn't making very much money at all while we were together. She was not yet even a citizen of this country when she left, nor is she now. She has no social security number or tax ID, etc... She left me, there was no abuse or mistreating, which is something both parties would say. That being said;

My questions are,

- Does the fact that I will be legally divorced in her country apply in this country also, or do I have to get a lawyer and go to court to become officially divorced in this country?

- If I need to do something here in the US in order for it to be finalized, is it possible to do so without a lawyer?

- Is this a case of abandonment?

- Can she legally demand the compensation her father has threatened to take?

- Can she legally demand half of the assets (if it is or isn't a case of abandonment)?

- I know in divorce courts, it is mandatory to have the signatures of both parties in an uncontested divorce. I'm sure they have ways of getting by in scenarios when one party refuses, right? What about when one party has vanished? Because, in my case, I believe I have actually been abandoned as defined by the court's definition. So, my question has to do with getting her to cooperate. It's kind of hard to get somebody to play ball when their reason for leaving was that they no longer wanted to be on the team.

- Also, I get to decide how the inside of my car looks, until I sell it or give it away and it is no longer in my possession. I can't come back to it once I've given it up and start changing things on it as though I still own it. Similarly, if she has already legally divorced me in Norway, doesn't that constitute a willful surrendering of her rights to contest what she wants out of the divorce? To contest it would mean that somebody is challenging it, making terms for it or stipulations for it. My question, how can somebody make terms for something they have already wilfully disowned? Can she or can't she demand anything from me?

Your help would be much appreciated!

Thank you,

Stephen

 

[LdiJ]

Any legal divorce, in any country in the world, is fully recognized in the US. Just as is any legal marriage. Therefore no, you don't have to do anything here, and yes, if she divorces you there, you will also be divorced here.

As for the threats they are making. I know absolutely nothing about Norwegian family law, and whether or not the US would recognize any orders made in Norway, that didn't conform to generally accepted practices here. There isn't anyone else here who knows anything about Norwegian family law either.

 

[Stephenopolis]

I see, but the only thing is, we were married here. Our marriage certificate is from the county I live in. Even if the marriage is officially dissolved in Scandinavia, how will they know that here in the county where the marriage certificate was given?

 

[LdiJ]

I see, but the only thing is, we were married here. Our marriage certificate is from the county I live in. Even if the marriage is officially dissolved in Scandinavia, how will they know that here in the county where the marriage certificate was given?

How do "they" know it if you get married in CA and get divorced in FL? Its no different. You will get a copy of the divorce decree and you can give it to anyone that questions whether or not you are divorced.

 

[mistoffolees]

I see, but the only thing is, we were married here. Our marriage certificate is from the county I live in. Even if the marriage is officially dissolved in Scandinavia, how will they know that here in the county where the marriage certificate was given?

It doesn't matter. If you ever need to prove that you're divorced, you can provide the document to whoever needs it. There's really no need to go back to the county where you were married and notify them.

It's up to you, but I personally wouldn't do anything until you get a formal demand from them. If you get a subpoena to appear in Norway or you get a finalized order that says you owe something, then take it up with an attorney. If I ran to an attorney every time my ex-wife or her family bluffed, I'd be broke.

Just don't ignore any legal documents. For example, if you get a subpoena, THAT is the time to take action. If you simply 'no show' for the court hearing, you could jeopardize your case.

Of course, if they're making you really nervous, go ahead and talk with an attorney. A typical fee might be $300 / hour (with a very wide range) and you might need half an hour. Is your peace of mind worth $150?

 

[Stephenopolis]

Thanks for replying BTW,

I never considered a subpoena to appear in her country... that would be strange... What if I didn't or couldn't show for it? Would that be some kind of crime under their jurisdiction? Under US Jurisdiction?

 

[seniorjudge]

Thanks for replying BTW,

I never considered a subpoena to appear in her country... that would be strange... What if I didn't or couldn't show for it? Would that be some kind of crime under their jurisdiction? Under US Jurisdiction?

This is for US law only. The US does not care whether you go to court on a civil matter outside its borders.

In any event, get a certified copy of the judgment in the lawsuit in Norway and get it translated and have the translation certified.

Keep it handy forever.

 

[Stephenopolis]

By the way... she left, said she'd be back, and never came back... doesn't that qualify as abandonment?

 

[mistoffolees]

By the way... she left, said she'd be back, and never came back... doesn't that qualify as abandonment?

Sure, but what difference does it make? She's getting a divorce in her country, so you'll be divorced. Whether she abandoned you or not has no bearing on that fact.

 

[Farfalla]

Sure, but what difference does it make? She's getting a divorce in her country, so you'll be divorced. Whether she abandoned you or not has no bearing on that fact.

I believe that he's asking about the abandonment as there seems to be a provision that a person in his state can get a divorce based on abandonment. I can see why doing that might be a good way to tie up loose ends here in the USA.

Than it does not matter what they do in her country, they will be divorced here in the USA.

Am I right Stephenopolis?

 

[Farfalla]

Thanks for replying BTW,
I never considered a subpoena to appear in her country... that would be strange... What if I didn't or couldn't show for it? Would that be some kind of crime under their jurisdiction? Under US Jurisdiction?

If you are subpoenaed can probably appear via telephone because of the distance.

Do you have an attorney in Scandinavia? Who is representing you in this divorce? When it is done it will be a valid divorce. Don’t they require that both parties appear? Or did you sign a waiver of appearance? Seems to me that if you don’t get representation you are at their mercy. And it sounds like they blame you for everything and she takes no responsibility for her contribution to the problems. No telling what kind of a settlement they can dream up with you having no representation. Though if I were you, with the way her father is being… I’d avoid actually going there if you can.

Does the separation agreement or divorce petition (whatever it is) have you paying her any kind of financial support right now? And if it does demand that, are you paying it? I don’t think that they can enforce anything across borders.

While the divorce will be legal here in the USA when it’s done, I doubt that the Scandinavian courts can force you to pay or do anything since you’re not there.

You might want to see if you can file a copy of the translated foreign divorce in your local court. I've heard of some people doing that in some states. I can understand why you want to have it recorded here in the USA.

And example of this was that when my husband moved to New Mexico from Virginia, he filed the child custody papers from Virginia here in the local court house. That way when he needed to go to court for some custody issues, the local court was aware of the Virginia agreement… something like that.

Most European public records/courts will offer a certified translated copy of court records for a small fee. You might want to request that of the court provide you with a certified, translated copy or two as part of what you get when the divorce is final.

 

[LdiJ]

I believe that he's asking about the abandonment as there seems to be a provision that a person in his state can get a divorce based on abandonment. I can see why doing that might be a good way to tie up loose ends here in the USA.

Than it does not matter what they do in her country, they will be divorced here in the USA.

Am I right Stephenopolis?

I will repeat....he does NOT need to get another divorce in the US. He doesn't have any loose ends to tie up here.

 

[Farfalla]

I will repeat....he does NOT need to get another divorce in the US. He doesn't have any loose ends to tie up here.

I agree with you that he does not need to get a divorce here.... my point is that I understand why he is asking the question about abandonment.

He needs to take the proceedings in Scandinavia seriously and get representation there since it seems he has no idea what’s going on and what they can stick him with if he leaves it all up to his wife and her father.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree with you that he does not need to get a divorce here.... my point is that I understand why he is asking the question about abandonment.

He needs to take the proceedings in Scandinavia seriously and get representation there since it seems he has no idea what’s going on and what they can stick him with if he leaves it all up to his wife and her father.

I am not sure that he needs to take the proceedings in Norway (Scandinavia is a cultural region, not a country) as seriously as you might think..except to make sure that it goes through.

They were only married six months. Norway has no jurisdiction over any property that is located in the US and they apparently don't have any marital assets or significant marital debts.

The worst he is looking at is spousal support, and if I remember correctly, that's not a common thing in Norway or Sweden....and its questionable whether or not the US would assist in collecting on alimony.

Hiring an attorney over there would be extremely expensive for him. He would be better off taking the risk that it was ordered, and then hiring a US attorney to fight any US attempt at collection.

 

[Stephenopolis]

Thanks by the way, I appreciate everybody giving this serious thought and response. Hmmmm.... Spousal support is a scary thought for me... Mostly because I believe they'd try to hit me for it if they thought they had a case... Now whether or not she has a case, I sincerely doubt it... On what grounds? I couldn't imagine how she'd have a chance at winning that battle without making something up... She came here, wasn't and still isn't a citizen, it lasted such a short while, she abandoned me, and for no other reason than not feeling hopeful about it. On those circumstances, it still doesn't seem likely that she'd be able to collect spousal support even with a made up story (obviously lacking evidence, because there is none).

The big concern for me is that things are wrapped up here once it is finalized there. Whether or not they subpoena me to come out there, is of importance, yes, but not as much. Even if they subpoenad me to come out and I for whatever reason couldn't make it, I just hope it wouldn't foul things up for me in the US... I'm under the impression that it wouldn't mess things up for me here, but I think it could mess things up for me if I were ever to travel over there again.