How can I buy time / use loopholes?

[stillinlove]

What is the name of your state? Oregon

1. In Clackamas County, I believe it is possible under certain circumstances for a judge to order Marriage Counseling to a married couple (even if they haven't any minor children between them, and only 1 child - my son from a prior marriage - living in the home part-time, who was not listed on the petition) pending his granting a divorce. Is that true? If so, how would I request such an order from the court when I file my "Response" to the petition I was served just last week? (More info in para. 3)

2. The petition has numerous inaccuracies and flat out lies on it, such as: He is showing the wrong address of residence for himself. (I need to know what to do to get sufficient proof/evidence that he has been living with his "girlfriend" and her children for the past 6 months.) He (the Petitioner) is asking to be served through the mail at the incorrect address (his parent's apartment) and I would prefer to have him served personally at his g/f's house and use the Proof of Service as evidence. Can I do that?

3. I don't want a divorce, but this is a "No Fault" state. The woman he is living with is a controlling, manipulative type, and because a.) He is normally the shy, quiet type who avoids conflict at any cost, and b.) She has made communications between my spouse & I nearly impossible, and has actually changed his personality into someone I neither recognize nor like any more. He once agreed to attend a marriage councelor with me, then moved in with her and never followed through. I have documents that prove that 10 days after he left our home "to figure out what [he] wanted" (after being together for over 5-1/2 years without any serious disagreements until the last month), he suddenly couldn't remember the color of my eyes, or the date we met, or our wedding anniversary date. He even has the wrong wedding date written on the petition, yet our anniversary was only one month to the day before he moved out very suddenly and without explanation. He even gave me a card! How could he use the wrong date and within 10 days forget the color of his own wife's eyes!!, unless he developed a sudden case of amnesia or some mental problem has destroyed his memory? Perhaps alien's have stolen his brain

Any suggestions on how I can use these things to get him into counseling and buy lots of time? Even if we end up divorced, I honestly believe he needs to get some professional help and get his personality and memory back to normal. She will get tired of him sponging off of her, or he will get sick of her temper tantrums and the screaming kids, etc. I know he will be looking for a way out soon, hopefully I can get him into counseling before he burns the bridge down on the path that leads back home! Please help, I can't afford an attorney. He doesn't have one, either, but I am intelligent enough to understand more than the average person, so I am comfortable dealing with this without representation if pointed in the right direction.

Thank You,
stillinlove

 

[stephenk]

the court cant force him to go to counseling if he does not want to. Again, what is so special about him?

 

[stillinlove]

Very hard to explain. We had so very much in common. He was my 3rd husband, and the only one to whom I ever was completely faithful to and I felt totally devoted to spending the rest of my life in his company. We called it being "mated for life" or "life mates." I guess part of it was having helped him pull his life together from the beginning, and trusting him completely never to let me down, that made ours such a special relationship. Most of our problem stems from mis-communication, I think. The rest has to do with blaming each other for financial issues that both of us were responsible for causing.

But part of the "special" of him is my ability to know where he is just about 100% of the time, even today. There is a definite magnatism I cannot explain, but it is there.

Also, for me to have been so attached to anyone at all is a first. Then, having been betrayed by not only a good friend (her), but lied to and dumped without explanation by him - who I would have given the world to, if he would have taken it from me, not only lied and kept his true feelings from me (because he was "afraid I would just get angry") but abandoned me without any resources and a bunch of animals to take care of. All without any transportation, in a rural home 2 miles from the nearest small town, no job, little food, and no money. (Not to mention a pile of unpaid bills and utility shutoff notices.)

I had a hard time building trust in him in the beginning, but he proved to me for the first 4 years we were together he was worth the money I "invested" to help him out. Never would I have dreamed that, after marrying me, he ever would have just bailed out on me when things got really tough. He said he would go to counseling with me before, I don't understand why all of the sudden he would renig on everything he has said he would do, ever since that witch lured him into her life. Ever since, he has completely shut me out. He has no job, he bitches about her and her kids, but does nothing to change. I've wondered if it could be his mid-life crisis that has caused part of this, but I don't know....

Yes, I know... I could do much better than an under-educated guy like him. But I was so commited to him that I don't want to give up and let him wreck his life again. I care about him more than that. I care about our marriage - even if he doesn't. If I am partially to blame for his leaving, all I ask is for a counselor to hear us out. At this point, all I ask from him is why? Is that too much to ask?

 

[VeronicaGia]

How does the old saying go?

"If you love him, set him free. If he comes back, he's yours. If not, he never was yours."

Something like that. He's with someone else. Move on.

 

[cyana]

I agree with Veronica

I saw your post yesterday but didn't have time to respond. Actually, in some counties of OR you can delay a divorce (without children) for court ordered counseling. From www.divorcesource.com

"MEDIATION OR COUNSELING REQUIREMENTS: Certain Oregon courts offer conciliation services. If a court does offer such services, either spouse or the court may delay the dissolution of marriage proceedings for 45 days while a reconciliation or settlement is attempted. In addition, if child custody or child support issues are contested, the court will refer the parents to mediation for up to 90 days. [Oregon Revised Statutes; Volume 2, Sections 107.179, 107.540, and 107.550]."

But then after reading today's responses, including yours, I though "Why bother with court-ordered counseling (assuming your court district says you both "have to")?"

Sweetie, my story is quite a *lot* like yours, except that the OW did not have children, and we were married for a lot longer. Your H has "emotionally divorced" you already. Stop letting your H whine about how tough he has it. YOU need to take care of yourself, emotionally and legally. Please stop with the starry - eyed illusion that if you two could only get marriage counseling then he would come back. I DO NOT mean to be cruel, but I've been there, done that (including marriage counseling) and nothing worked because my ex had already "emotionally" divorced me too.

Please seek counseling and (paid) legal advice for yourself. I know that is a hard route to take and I wish the very best.

P.S. www.divorcesource.com also has an ad for "stopping your divorce" but I don't how effective the techniques are.

 

[stillinlove]

Thanks for the feedback, pros & cons, etc. Yes, I knew about the court's mediation & conciliation services being available in the county where I live.

I had already been to a counselor and they extended the opportunity to my spouse to come in separately, if that was his preference. By that time, he was already "with" the witch, so he wasn't receptive to anything.

I swear, it's been as though she has put a ring in his nose and blinders to keep him from looking back. This is the 2nd marriage in a row she has directly been responsible for breaking up. No kidding! It's like she is such a desparate woman - not good enough to be able to find a single, decent man on her own... She waits 'til she senses a little bit of turmoil in a relationship, then swoops in to "rescue" the guy at an opportune moment. She even braggs at how she has her own parents "over a barrel" when it comes to disagreements over who should and should not be allowed to stay in the house 24/7 around the kids. Her parents own the property and live right next door. (No rent for her to pay, must be nice!) She tells everyone that they can't tell her to make her boyfriend (at that present time) move out, cuz they know she will tell them, "If he goes, I go!" This makes them live in fear that if they say anything, they won't get to see the grandkids or be close enough to be available for emergencies or have a hand in raising them. I am just trying to illustrate the intensity and scope of her ability to control and manipulate anyone who is emotionally sensitive to particular circumstances.

As for www.divorcesource.com, two of the four options for divorce stopping are written by one of my favorite authors. In fact, I have a copy of The Divorce Remedy checked out from the library right now (for the 2nd time.) Also, I was just finishing up with John Gray's "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus." Awesome book on the differences between male and female communication styles and interaction. I recommend it highly.

As for the rest of it all, I guess only time and the judge will tell. At least, that is what I said to my spouse today when I called him to tell him that while I wanted to question and address a few minor things on his petition when I file my response, I was no longer going to push him into counseling if he really didn't want to go or to put any effort into ironing out our communication problems and misunderstandings. I gave him a few examples of what I was referring to, and told him I wish he enjoyed reading more, because I have really learned a lot. Now I am starting to discover most of what caused the gap that formed between us. I had some really great stuff that I wanted to share with him. I figured going to a couselor would be the next best thing. But if he isn't going to put forth any effort to help me to understand him, or visa versa, then I am not going to waste any more time. The rest is up to the judge. (I heard a little sniffle on the other end of the line at that point.)

I don't know if it will help or hurt the situation, but I get the feeling I hit a nerve and woke up a little bit of regret in him today. I will keep reading, learning and becoming a better person for it, regardless of the outcome. I just wanted to keep him from ruining his own life, since it took me at least the first 3 years we were together making it a much better one than what he had when I met him. Now, he has gone full-circle and is going downhill fast.
Very sad, indeed.

Thank you all,
stillinlove

 

[VeronicaGia]

She sounds like one of those people who want what they cannot have. Then, once they get what they cannot have, they no longer want it.

Please move on. Stop making excuses for him, he's not good enough for you.

 

[stillinlove]

No excuses, just stating the facts.

Good enough, or not, unless you have ever been in the exact same situation where you gave (unlike you ever have before in your life), trusted, believed, and loved with all of your heart and soul, then had your entire world destroyed beyond repair...

You could not possibly understand the actual depth of my relationship with my estranged spouse.

"Move on" is not an acceptable answer.

Having been married twice before my current marriage, I know exactly how, with some marriages that fail, it is the best possible way to deal with the situation. However, watching him revert back to indebtedness, emotional turmoil (he is struggling with this - if only on the inside, I can read it in his eyes and I heard it in his voice 4 days ago), and lack of income, he is an exception to the norm. He is having regrets, and he won't stay where he is much longer. I can "feel" this tide getting ready to turn, and I don't want to be left high & dry, all by myself on this deserted island that has become my home.

That's why I am trying to work with any possible "gaps" and stretch the divorce process as long as possible. Having moved on a couple of times in the past, I am committed to my current marriage and feel very strongly about giving my husband as much time as possible to realize what he is throwing away by getting the divorce before even trying to talk about whatever is making him unhappy that he left in the first place. If we can't work things out - fine. I can learn to live with that if it happens. But refusing to even take time to tell me if I did something wrong, or offering some clues as to why he was so confused and disoriented when he left is not acceptable! (Of course, I know darn well exactly what that witch was doing behind my back when I was out of town for 10 days. But I would prefer hearing it from him, if only so it is finally brought into the open where we can be honest with each other like we always were before the sh!+ hit the fan.

I do appreciate the feedback and I know your comments are made with good intentions, what I am looking for in this forum is some reasonably sound advice that is more legal in nature. I need to buy some more time here because, until I have run out of marriage therapy books and methods to try, I don't want a divorce! I want my sweet, handsome, and loving husband back -- and I want to eliminate that homewrecking 'ho' from the face of the earth - or at least take her out of commission and put her in mortal fear of ever being stupid enough to put herself in this position again, considering the possiblilty of having to suffer the same consequences of any further interference into other people's marriages.

NOTE: I live in a very small town, where wives don't take lightly to homewrecking 'ho's like her. The perfect example is of one wife who found out about some chick who was messing with her husband and decided to get even. The wife had one of her husband's friends call the 'ho' and "relay" a message, that her boyfriend (the husband) was out hunting, and wanted her to meet him up near where he was, and bring up some lunch.

Well, she went up there to meet him, and was ambushed by the irrate wife and a couple of her girlfriends who also hated the 'ho'. They threw her on the ground and the two friends pinned her down so she couldn't move, tied her hands and then tied her to a tree. Then, they gagged her and held her head still...

While the angry wife cut off nearly ALL of the 'ho's beautiful, long, blonde hair!!!!!

Then they left her a** up there and the wife told her husband (later that day) to go up, cut her loose, bring that 'ho' back to town, and NEVER, EVER EVEN THINK ABOUT CHEATING ON HER, EVER AGAIN! (Or the next time it might be him!) lol

 

[stealth2]

You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. At the end of the day, your husband made a choice to cheat.

As for the assault you described - those "ladies" (I use the term advisedly) are very lucky that they weren't charged with assault. And ya know... I wouldn't laugh all that hard since you yourself said that this is the only husband you've been faithful to.

 

[VeeGee]

Stillinlove....I really feel for you. I can see how hard you are trying to save your marriage. But buying time is not going to solve or save your marriage and put it back together as it once was. I'm not trying to be cruel here, I'm trying to help you. If he doesn't want to go to marriage counselling...then I'd say he is sending out a message loud and clear to you. And let's say he agree's, and all goes well. How long before he does this again? You really need to seek counselling for yourself, and worry about yourself and ONLY yourself. I know you must be devastated, and the thought of being alone might frighten you some. But trust me, you will only grow stronger with time...and in time you will look back and thank your lucky stars you rid yourself of someone who was not worthy of you. Please honey...do yourself a favor, and let him go...you really deserve better, and you will find someone better in time.....I know this because I did. Good luck and stay strong.

 

[stillinlove]

Momma_tiger, I was just being honest and never meant to imply I have ever been perfect. Besides.... I have never "been" with a married man before, unless he happened to be married to me! As for the brutal group of wives, I was surprised they weren't charged with assault, too. Maybe the homewrecking "ho" was too embarrassed at being exposed, and decided not to press charges for fear of public criticism.

I know better than to do anything to anyone that could put me in jail. Especially with my husband's "mistress", who happens to be sue-happy in addition to her other not-so-charming qualities!

VeeGee, thanks for the supportive words. Actually, during the first week of our separation, I asked my spouse if he would be willing to see a marriage counselor or therapist with me. I told him that I was having so much separation anxiety, that I wanted to see a counselor ASAP. He agreed to go along with me. Well, the counselor's office was booked nearly 3 weeks out. During that time, he succumbed to the "ho's" overt flirtations, sympathetic ear, etc. (but wasn't willing to see me to talk about whatever it was that was bothering him.) By the time the day came to go to the session, he was not only involved with the "ho", but had had me served with a Restraining Order just for trying to find him and let him know when the appointment was! All that, just to keep me from finding out he had moved in with her, and afraid I would shoot them both if I saw them together!

Needless to say, I still went to counseling, unaware that my very confused and inexplicably unhappy spouse was seeing the ONE person I knew I should be keeping a close eye on! I was pretty upset during that first session. I ended up getting a voluntary mental health evaluation, an appointment with my regular doctor to treat my accute anxiety and chronic depression problems. I still can't sleep well. I still wake up sometimes and see this mental image of her being in my place, "doing" my husband! If I'm lucky or if have an empty stomach, now I just take a sleeping pill so I'm not dealing with another anxiety attack until daybreak. I guess you could consider it progress that I don't puke everytime, like I used to do whenever that would happen. Also, for months after he left, I had no appetite at all. I was small to start with - 106 lbs average and only 5'2" tall. But during the early months, my weight dropped below 88 lbs. When the weather got colder, I had to literally force myself to eat one decent meal every day, so I would have the strength to split firewood from the huge 2' - 3' x 18" round slices of oak behind the barn. It was either do that, or freeze & die of starvation due to the situation in which I was abandoned. No running vehicle (another broken promise), 4 pets to care for, $137 he gave me two weeks after he left was the only money I had (and I used that to keep the phone turned on, since he said he would give me "most of the money out of every paycheck." I never saw another penny. My car never got fixed. I had to "put down" an old dog that I had raised from when she was a pup, because he didn't do it for me and she was blind, deaf, and barely able to stand up and walk. I couldn't bear to watch her struggle, so I shot her and buried her myself - one of the hardest things I have ever had to do.

What I have been through over the last 6 months was so awful, I will probably never be the same person again. He knows it, too, since I told him exactly what I went through. No wonder he has dark circles under his eyes, and can't bear to see me or communicate with me since he moved in with the "ho". He knows how wrong it was, and is. I can read the guilt clearly everytime I see his face. I can't blame all of this on him, because I know exactly what she did to persuade him. She had been working on stealing him away from me for quite a while - my intuition told me that - a month before we had any real arguments at all; a whole month before he went to stay with relatives, not knowing how long until he figured out what was wrong and what he wanted to do; supposedly to return home when he had figured things out on his own. It turned out to be abandonment, infidelity, and, over six months later - filing for divorce. But he told me two months ago that he still loves me, but he wasn't "ready to come home
yet!" Honest-to-God, he sounded like a spoiled brat, little boy when he said that, and NOT like the man I married. She has had a horrible influence on him, and now he is sounding exactly like she does when she throws a fit.

Sure, I know what he did was dishonest and cruel. In some states it is down-right illegal and/or grounds for a divorce. But I have to question his mental stability at this point, because of some rather bizarre things he has done ever since she started talking to him behind my back. I wonder if I would have any luck persuading a judge to order both physical and mental evaluations on my spouse, since his personality has changed completely over the past year, to the point of his becoming unrecognizeable as being the same man today. It's like she has brainwashed him. I wouldn't even suggest the evaluations, if it weren't for how severely and radically he has changed. Any thoughts?

I want to make sure he gets help if, in fact, he really needs it. I'm very serious. I am worried about him and about his overall health. There is more to this than I have time to write, and definitely more things that need to be addressed before I will just turn my back on someone I care about - regardless of what he has done to me and the mess he made of my life in the process - especially when it is my husband. It is to the point where I just want to know if he is going to be OK and is in full control of his faculties before the divorce is final. He used to be such a good man and my best friend. My friends and I agree - he isn't the same person he used to be. I can't just "let go" of that or go out looking for someone more deserving of me, as long as I am still a married, Christian woman.

 

[VeeGee]

Imstillinlove....You asked if I had any thoughts, well here they are. you MUST take care of yourself FIRST!!! This is the first step to recovery...build some strength up...oh it's there, you just haven't applied it yet. Ask yourself what you really want? Do you want to stay in a marriage like this? Will it EVER be the same again, ( you mentioned in your post that it will not). Will you ever trust him again? If things do work out, will he ever do this again? Is he worth the fight? Sis...this is NOT her fault, and it's certainly not YOUR fault either. No matter what she tells him or how hard she tries to brain wash him, or how much she tried to take him from you...it's HIM, and ONLY him who made that decision to leave! Bottom line. I DO know how you feel, trust me. But it has been 6 mos. if he was coming back to you, he would have been there already. What you have to do now is get on with your life...even if there's a chance he might come back, you still need to do this. You mentioned friends, see if someone can help you get a job. Believe it or not...that makes all the difference in the world...not only financially, but mentally. Get on your feet and put your act together sis, show him ( no matter how hard it is for you) that you are going on with your life. STOP trying to communicate with him...be vague, and not available...let him wonder, and miss you. I know you still love him...love cannot be turned on and off like a faucet. I'm real sorry for saying this but...if he still loved you, he wouldn't be putting you through all this heartache! Once you accomplish all this...you will see how easy the rest comes. Who knows, by then you may NOT want him anymore. Go sis...show him you DON't need him and take care of yourself! Do it for YOU! I wish you all the luck in the world and I do hope things work out for you.

 

[stillinlove]

Thanks VeeGee. I know exactly what you mean about work, etc. Been there, done that. I had to fix an old junker of my son's that was parked/stored at the house (until he is old enough to drive.) I got it running (out of desparation, because I was getting awfully tired of walking 1/2 mile one-way, on the white line, no shoulders, and on a very busy main road just to get to the highway at the nearest bus stop. From there, I could get to the county Family Services building, Mental Health, Energy Assistance, the Court House, etc.) I went looking for work, found a job that payed fairly well and was seasonal employment - but all I could find at that time.

Sure, I felt better. It didn't seem to stop me from thinking and wondering about "him" on an hourly basis. I managed to sell my house, ONE DAY before the foreclosure auction was to be held. I had to have a friend haul 2 huge trailers full of stuff he was supposed to help me clean out of the barn, pasture, and garage. I packed, burned, threw away, and gave away the 16-1/2 years worth of memories and "stuff" from two marriages, 3 growing boys, and lots of pets that were some of the happiest years of my adult life. All that remains now are the things that would fit comforably in my 1 bedroom appartment, plus a 10'x10' rental storage unit. I bought myself a nice, economical, used vehicle with most of the chunk of change I received from the house. I got rid of "our" sheets & comforter sets, and bought a nice, new set. I replaced my 24-year-old canvas tent with a new, larger and lighter-weight one. I still need to pick up a tent heater, a new camping stove, and a gold dredge conversion kit to upgrade my sluice box. Then I will be all set for this Summer! (When the going gets tough, the tough GO SHOPPING!! Wee-ee-ee-ee!)

I plan on doing plenty of productive prospecting this year - even if my spouse has other plans for his own Summer. I will miss his company and all but, if I'm lucky, maybe I can find a friend to go along every now and then. (Some of his closest friends have been coming over to visit me lately on a regular basis. I bet taking one of them along with me would make him wonder, huh?)

Don't worry, I'm still moving forward. But I got laid off from work last week, and right now I'm working with the VA counselor to find another job as soon as possible. Having nothing better to do than sit around waiting, wondering and worrying all the time is enough to drive anyone insane!
Hopefully, I will land a job before I "go completely around the bend", again!

Take care, and thanks, again.

stillinlove

 

[VeeGee]

Now that's the spirit!!!!!!! Keep on moving on lol...do nice things for yourself, like get your hair done...buy a new pair of jeans. Go out with some friends, meet new friends...and YES, taking along one of his friends would definately make him wonder lol. I know you can't just stop thinking about him...that takes time. As far as delaying the divorce, I'm sure there are legal ways to do this...but why delay it??? If your meant to be together, you will be. Things do happen for a reason...if you don't believe anything else in life...believe that! Just take care of yourself...everything will work out for the best. Take care sis...