Huge Debt questions...

[Susie3q]

What is the name of your state? SC

First, here is the background links for my previous relevant posts:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=352308

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=351453

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=360004

Just a little more background:

My dear stbx abusive butthole husband is now claiming that he "borrowed" more than 65k in the last year from various people in the community... NOT financial institutions, but from the "Arab" community. I do believe that these people will "document" these imaginary loans. This in my opinion is clearly an attempt by him to retain the 40k plus that we have in equity in the marital home.

My question is: (and I know it's only a guess..) Will these "loans" be considered marital debt since I had no prior knowledge of the loans or where any of that money went? I never signed any documents or saw any documents pertaining to loans from his friends or family...

How can I prove that this money NEVER actually entered our household? Our bank statements definately NEVER had these kinds of deposits. Just how much stock will a judge put into "personal" loans?

Our next step is mediation and I would like to know what to expect and how much I should dispute.

Oh and just as a side note for comic relief... stbx's attorney brought a flowerpot similar to the one stbx slammed into my windshield as I was attempting to escape on the night of the DV incident to show the judge how "light" it was. She really chewed him out for this one. It was hysterical to watch him turn 15 colors of red.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer...

SusieWhat is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? SC

First, here is the background links for my previous relevant posts:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=352308

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=351453

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=360004

Just a little more background:

My dear stbx abusive butthole husband is now claiming that he "borrowed" more than 65k in the last year from various people in the community... NOT financial institutions, but from the "Arab" community. I do believe that these people will "document" these imaginary loans. This in my opinion is clearly an attempt by him to retain the 40k plus that we have in equity in the marital home.

My question is: (and I know it's only a guess..) Will these "loans" be considered marital debt since I had no prior knowledge of the loans or where any of that money went? I never signed any documents or saw any documents pertaining to loans from his friends or family...

How can I prove that this money NEVER actually entered our household? Our bank statements definately NEVER had these kinds of deposits. Just how much stock will a judge put into "personal" loans?

Our next step is mediation and I would like to know what to expect and how much I should dispute.

Oh and just as a side note for comic relief... stbx's attorney brought a flowerpot similar to the one stbx slammed into my windshield as I was attempting to escape on the night of the DV incident to show the judge how "light" it was. She really chewed him out for this one. It was hysterical to watch him turn 15 colors of red.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer...

SusieWhat is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?

If people are willing to document the imaginary loans, it could be a problem. I think that your attorney should attack it on the basis of "where did the money go?".

You can prove that it didn't go into the household accounts, and if your stbx is trying to say that you should be responsible for 1/2 of it as marital debt, that would make you also entitled to 1/2 of the value of whatever it purchased. If that was his business, (is he still claiming to be only a "manager" rather than an owner?) then he could be shooting himself in the foot.

In any case, discuss that with your attorney.

 

[Susie3q]

Business Owner

Thanks LdiJ,

Actually he is claiming ownership in the business now so that he could claim ZERO income. That's how he got to only pay $100.00 per month in child support for 2 children under 3. Anyways, I will have his private bank accounts pulled during discovery as I KNOW that no money went into our "joint" account as this is where I was to put MY money so he could have access to it.

Now, the next question: He was ordered 6 hours of supervised visitation over 3 days during the week. My ONLY request was that no visitation took place on Saturday so I could have a weekend day with the children uninterupted. Of course, he proposed:

1) 3 hours Saturday and 3 hours Sunday
OR
2) 2 hours Friday and 4 hours Sunday
OR
3) 2 hours Friday, 2 hours Saturday, and 2 hours Sunday.

He would not even consider visitation during the work week.

Now my attorney tells me I have to "compromise" with him. Only number 3 meets the requirement in the court order.

So, I guess it's number 3 and I get screwed again. Do you think I was being unreasonable to offer 2 hours Friday, 2 hours Sunday and 2 hours on any other day except Saturday?

 

[LdiJ]

So, I guess it's number 3 and I get screwed again. Do you think I was being unreasonable to offer 2 hours Friday, 2 hours Sunday and 2 hours on any other day except Saturday?

No, you absolutely were NOT being unreasonable, and it would not be unreasonable for you to stick to your guns on that one. I think that your attorney is being just a little too "accomodating" to the other side. Remember that your attorney works for you, and as long as you are not being unreasonable, your attorney should be doing what you want done.

However, the two hours Friday and the four hours Sunday is not a bad compromise even though its not strickly what the judge ordered. Who will be doing the supervising?

 

[Susie3q]

Superviser

Dear LdiJ,

Thanks for insight on the supervision... For now, the negotiations go on. My attorney is pro bono so I guess you get what you pay for.

As to your question regarding the supervisor, it's his BEST FRIEND. I requested his family members (his first cousins-older and married with children) but they were not chosen due to knowing too many people (judges and lawyers) in our city. His best friend's wife left him this week and the friend is currently up for a federal INS hearing regarding deportation in Atlanta, GA in August of this year. He has an attorney but his attorney has advised him that since he is separated and the deportation action is based on a "fake" marriage, that he will likely get deported.

Also, AH and I are both 38 years old and his supervisor is only 27 and has no children of his own.

What do you think?

Susie

 

[LdiJ]

Dear LdiJ,

Thanks for insight on the supervision... For now, the negotiations go on. My attorney is pro bono so I guess you get what you pay for.

As to your question regarding the supervisor, it's his BEST FRIEND. I requested his family members (his first cousins-older and married with children) but they were not chosen due to knowing too many people (judges and lawyers) in our city. His best friend's wife left him this week and the friend is currently up for a federal INS hearing regarding deportation in Atlanta, GA in August of this year. He has an attorney but his attorney has advised him that since he is separated and the deportation action is based on a "fake" marriage, that he will likely get deported.

Also, AH and I are both 38 years old and his supervisor is only 27 and has no children of his own.


What do you think?

Susie

What I think is that you should absolutely refuse to accept his "best friend" as the supervisor even if you risk contempt to do so. Anyone who is about to be deported is NOT an acceptable supervisor. I think that you should probably be insisting that a supervision center is where the visitation should take place.

 

[Bali Hai]

What I think is that you should absolutely refuse to accept his "best friend" as the supervisor even if you risk contempt to do so. Anyone who is about to be deported is NOT an acceptable supervisor. I think that you should probably be insisting that a supervision center is where the visitation should take place.

This is unequivaly and totaly bias and this decison would be thown right back in your feminist face.

 

[Susie3q]

Supervisor

LdiJ,

I agree about the supervisor, but have no choice at least in the short term. My attorney did agree to revisit the visitation issue as soon as we have a GAL and both sides are evaluated. Please keep in mind that my AH has been charged with 2 counts of misdomeaner child abuse and 1 count of cruelty to a child AND is not cooperating with DSS. He refused to even meet with them again after the case was found to be "indicated." DSS is filing a case against him to make it mandatory by court order to comply with their treatment plan.

I disagree with you Bali Hai in that a "Best Friend" is not the person that should have been appointed supervisor. A friend with NOTHING to lose because he is going to be deported has no reason to comply 100% with the arrangement.

So far the children have seen their father for 12 hours.

The following statements have been made by my just turned 3 year old daughter without any prompting or questioning by me almost immediately after returning home:

Daughter: Mommy, your house is dirty, but Baba's (that's daddy in Arabic) house is clean.

Me: Can you show me where mommy's house is dirty, sweetie?

Daughter: Um, no, but Baba says so.


Next visit:

Daughter: Baba has a broken heart.

Me: It's ok sweetie, Baba will be ok. He isn't really broken, he just misses you.


Next visit:

Daughter: Baba has a broken heart.

Me: He's really ok honey, Baba will be ok, he just misses his little girl.

Daughter: Mommy broke baba's heart.

Me: Oh honey, Baba isn't broken at all, he just misses you.

Daughter: Why did you break baba?

Me: Really, Baba is ok sweetie, he just misses you.


Next visit:

Daughter: I want to live with Baba.

Me: I would really miss you if you lived with Baba.

Daughter: You can come too.

Me: Mommy and Baba don't live together anymore honey.

Daughter: Baba says your mean and he wants me to live with him.

Me: Do you think mommy is mean?

Daughter: Mama is mean.

Me: How is mommy mean to you sweetie?

Daughter: Um, I love you mommy.

I can't help but wonder if that restraining order in our court order regarding not talking badly about each other in front of the children is being upheld by the supervisor or Baba.

Could it be that I'm just misreading the thought process of a child that turned 3 on April 15th? I know she is intelligent, but to generate this stuff seems unlikely and when I ask the supervisor he assures me that Baba NEVER says anything bad about me or tries to manipulate the children in any way. They just play and have fun.

Opinions? Bali Hai?

 

[Ohiogal]

Actually Susie, Bali Hai is correct. Ldij was giving you VERY poor advice. As for your comment about pro bono attorneys and getting what you pay for -- well I would offer you more advice but since I am an attorney and you aren't paying me anything apparently that is not good enough. Go find another attorney to pay if you want advice.

 

[LdiJ]

Actually Susie, Bali Hai is correct. Ldij was giving you VERY poor advice. As for your comment about pro bono attorneys and getting what you pay for -- well I would offer you more advice but since I am an attorney and you aren't paying me anything apparently that is not good enough. Go find another attorney to pay if you want advice.

BS Ohiogal. The supervisor is someone who is about to be deported. That is completely unacceptable.....and for Bali's sake, I don't care if the supervisor is male or female, if they are about to be deported they are unacceptable as a supervisor.

 

[Susie3q]

Superviser

Hmmm, Not sure how I accomplished ticking off Ohiogal, but I am indeed sorry. I guess the wonderful thought process my dear little innocent girl is coming up with is completely my imagination??? Don't get me wrong, I want my stbx abusive horrible husband to be a wonderful father to his children, just wondering if it will ever happen. As far as the friend, I think the judge had just a few minutes to make the decision based on little to no information since I didn't know that he had requested the friend. I hope things will be re-examined before the August deportation date. I would hate for their Baba to miss an opportunity to manipulate, er, visit with the kids.

Ohiogal, I have the utmost respect for your opinion. I have read your advise for months. As far as my attorney goes, I think she is doing an excellent job overall. I was just disappointed that she "advised" me to cave in on the schedule that my husband suggested without even considering my side of things, especially since she is MY lawyer. This was my first disappointment with her. I had made it clear that this man is a controlling, abusive and down right mean person. And now, she thinks I should just give him what he wants without considering my own feelings. I did that for the entire 8 years I was married to him. Also, she told me that if I didn't do the visitation on his terms (2 hours, Friday, Saturday and Sunday) that I could be found in contempt and the court could possible transfer custody to my husband that is going to trial on child abuse charges. Threatening me to give in to him felt horrible. Of course I DID agree and now, the summer is basically ruined for us.

I am unable to attend any family functions at the lake this summer since I don't have any uninterrupted weekend days that we can drive down and hang out. Also, the night service that I've been attending at church for 3 years is no more since his hours overlap the service.

I'm a bit puzzled why a man that makes ZERO dollars at his business can only see his children on the weekends so that his business doesn't suffer. Even the judge in our temporary hearing told him that his imaginary customers wouldn't miss him if he closed down early a few times a week to see his children. For God's Sake, he is paying $100.00 per month in child support for two children (3 years and 22 months old)! This is a man that was making $60,000 per year up until he was arrested in January for CDV and child abuse.

Go figure.

Anyways, sorry I pissed you off Ohiogal, I do respect your opinion. As for Bali Hai, I had hoped that my response would have swayed his opinion on the comment that LbdJ was full of crap on the supervisor since I happen to agree with Lbdj.

Anyways, I hope everyone has a great day.

 

[Ohiogal]

BS Ohiogal. The supervisor is someone who is about to be deported. That is completely unacceptable.....and for Bali's sake, I don't care if the supervisor is male or female, if they are about to be deported they are unacceptable as a supervisor.

If the court stated that this person is to be the supervisor then they find the person acceptable! That is the point you are missing. If she decides not to cooperate with that and allow him to see the child with that individual supervising then she is going to get into trouble.

 

[Ohiogal]

Hmmm, Not sure how I accomplished ticking off Ohiogal, but I am indeed sorry.

Apology accepted but you stated the following: My attorney is pro bono so I guess you get what you pay for.
Since I am an attorney and do a LOT of lowcost divorces and pro bono work truthfully that comment made me mad.

I guess the wonderful thought process my dear little innocent girl is coming up with is completely my imagination???

I never said that.

Don't get me wrong, I want my stbx abusive horrible husband to be a wonderful father to his children, just wondering if it will ever happen. As far as the friend, I think the judge had just a few minutes to make the decision based on little to no information since I didn't know that he had requested the friend.

The fact that the judge found him acceptable however means as you said that you have to deal with him. Do not risk contempt. You may not agree with the judge's choice HOWEVER the judge made it and unless you appealed the decision you are stuck short term.

I hope things will be re-examined before the August deportation date. I would hate for their Baba to miss an opportunity to manipulate, er, visit with the kids.

Kids come up with the craziest things. My daughter came out with some of the wierdest comments caused by me and her dad divorcing -- most of it was because SHE wanted her dad and I together.

Ohiogal, I have the utmost respect for your opinion. I have read your advise for months. As far as my attorney goes, I think she is doing an excellent job overall. I was just disappointed that she "advised" me to cave in on the schedule that my husband suggested without even considering my side of things, especially since she is MY lawyer.

Here is the thing, you need to compromise on some things. I would not have said cave on the Sunday thing. I would have thrown back at him your idea. And if he didn't like i would have forced it to court.

This was my first disappointment with her. I had made it clear that this man is a controlling, abusive and down right mean person.

I missed it and don't have time to reread all the other threads but do you have convictions?

And now, she thinks I should just give him what he wants without considering my own feelings.

Some things are small battles and some are large. You need to decide which is which.

I did that for the entire 8 years I was married to him. Also, she told me that if I didn't do the visitation on his terms (2 hours, Friday, Saturday and Sunday) that I could be found in contempt and the court could possible transfer custody to my husband that is going to trial on child abuse charges. Threatening me to give in to him felt horrible. Of course I DID agree and now, the summer is basically ruined for us.

You can only be found in contempt IF it is in the court order that those are the days. The fact that you agreed however you are stuck.

I am unable to attend any family functions at the lake this summer since I don't have any uninterrupted weekend days that we can drive down and hang out. Also, the night service that I've been attending at church for 3 years is no more since his hours overlap the service.

Okay the courts don't care about church. You will have to go to a morning service if you want to attend. As for family functions -- pick one and petition the court for permission to take your daughters for an uninterrupted weekend.

I'm a bit puzzled why a man that makes ZERO dollars at his business can only see his children on the weekends so that his business doesn't suffer. Even the judge in our temporary hearing told him that his imaginary customers wouldn't miss him if he closed down early a few times a week to see his children. For God's Sake, he is paying $100.00 per month in child support for two children (3 years and 22 months old)!

Some businesses when they first start don't make any money and end the year in the red. Child support is a VERY DIFFERENT subject than visitation and you CANNOT connect of them.

This is a man that was making $60,000 per year up until he was arrested in January for CDV and child abuse.

Go figure.

That can waylay a career being accused of these. Until he is convicted he is considered innocent.

Anyways, sorry I pissed you off Ohiogal, I do respect your opinion. As for Bali Hai, I had hoped that my response would have swayed his opinion on the comment that LbdJ was full of crap on the supervisor since I happen to agree with Lbdj.

Anyways, I hope everyone has a great day.

The problem is the judge found this person acceptable and it is NOT Ld's opinion. Bali's opinion or my opinion that counts. Yours doesn't even count. It is the judge's opinion that holds. If you didn't agree you should have appealed.

 

[Susie3q]

Ohiogal

Thanks again Ohiogal! I appreciate your insight. Actually, the initial hearing was a 15 minute job in which the Judge read our affadavits and asked DSS a few questions regarding their indicated investigation and then she made a ruling. I didn't have the right at the time to say ANYTHING, nor did my attorney or even his.

The judge did say that his business was a wash and told him she expected him to get a "real" job. The business did make money last year, but since we separated on January 7th of this year, it has been unprofitable. The judge did say that if it is found in discovery that he lied, alimony would be awarded back to the hearing date. The judge did order 6 hours of supervised visitation, 2 hours at a time on 3 separate days. The judge chose his requested supervisor over mine because the one I wanted is very active and popular in the community and well respected by many of the judges he is friends with (just not this particular judge) and she didn't want to risk change of venue in the future. Out of all of the judges, she is the only one that isn't personal friends with my husband's family, so I guess we won't go before any other judges in our city.

Anyways, this was my husband's second arrest for CDV, however the first was expunged (still on the books, but this offence counts as a first). He has not gone to trial yet, but the charges were found to be "indicated" by DSS and he is refusing to cooperate with them.

This guy has already completed the Domestic Violence Program in our area once (6 month program 1.5 hours a week) and he has reoffended. Only 14% of men that complete the program get re-arrested.

Ohiogal, I want you to know that my deepest hope is that my husband will stop all of these games of trying to financially ruin me, intimidation, manipulation and just be the BEST dad he can be. Unfortunately, he has a history of abuse including a prior arrest and conviction and he really scares the HE11 out of me. I do have a protection order and I am going to testify against him in criminal court. I am doing EVERYTHING possible to protect myself and my children. Everyone tells abused women to just leave, but few realize how hard we have to fight in court to stay safe when getting divorced. I just don't want to be a statistic.

By the way, the children have just left with the supervisor for their 2 hour visit tonight. I would NEVER break a court order even if it goes against everything I believe in. I would NOT risk losing custody of my children to an abusive man. I am doing my best to protect myself and my children within the guidelines of the law.

(((Ohiogal))) I know you do the best work for many people at no cost or low cost. I absolutely love my attorney and am very thankful for all of her hard work. She does get paid by a grant for my case, but she chose to take me as a client and I am very grateful! I was just aggravated because she jumped on me. This was out of frustration with her having to deal with his attorney being bull-headed. She was having to negotiate back and forth for a week with still no agreement and she was tired. She just wanted me to cave and I did, but I caved in to giving up my time to follow the court order to the letter of the law.

Oh, and one other thing... This is South Carolina and church is very important when considering custody and visitation in our state. It's even written into the law that the childrens spiritual needs are a high priority when making a custody determination. I have attended my church for more than 3 years (this one). My husband began going to church 3 weeks ago and I am having to accomodate him because he chooses to attend the 1:00 pm service instead of the 9:00 am service. But when it comes down to it, I guess he definately needs to be there more than me!!

Anyways, thanks for accepting my apology. I would never want to do or say anything that would imply that you don't do a great job and that my attorney isn't a saint for taking my case. My husband is going to really make this hard for her. He's not a nice guy.

Tootles!

Susie