Land/house divorce division

[Cross Hair]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
After 20 years of marriage we have decided to get a divorce. Division of property has me a little concerned. I owned the property free and clear for several years before we got married. When we built the house everthing (mortage/title/insurance)has both our names on it. House is fully paid off at this point. I am not happy about splitting our assets but understand that's the way it goes. But I don't believe she is entitled to 50% of the value of our house and property. Is there any way I can seperate the value of house and property at this point or is it considered community property? The property itself has a value of $168,000 and with the house the value jumps up to $314,000. We are trying to be fair and civil with each other but we don't agree on this issue. And no at this point we havn't got any attornies involved, neither one of us wants to give up that money .

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
After 20 years of marriage we have decided to get a divorce. Division of property has me a little concerned. I owned the property free and clear for several years before we got married. When we built the house everthing (mortage/title/insurance)has both our names on it. House is fully paid off at this point. I am not happy about splitting our assets but understand that's the way it goes. But I don't believe she is entitled to 50% of the value of our house and property. Is there any way I can seperate the value of house and property at this point or is it considered community property? The property itself has a value of $168,000 and with the house the value jumps up to $314,000. We are trying to be fair and civil with each other but we don't agree on this issue. And no at this point we havn't got any attornies involved, neither one of us wants to give up that money .

Everything has both your names on including the title? Hence she owns HALF the value of the property and house as the deed for the house includes the property -- correct? You gifted her the value of the property when she came on to the title. You owe her half of the full amount since it is paid off ($157,000).
And Ohio is NOT a community property state. It is equitable division. That doesn't change things as she is on the title and therefore is half owner.

 

[mistoffolees]

Everything has both your names on including the title? Hence she owns HALF the value of the property and house as the deed for the house includes the property -- correct? You gifted her the value of the property when she came on to the title. You owe her half of the full amount since it is paid off ($157,000).
And Ohio is NOT a community property state. It is equitable division. That doesn't change things as she is on the title and therefore is half owner.

Besides, after 20 years, no one is going to argue that she's not entitled to half (well, maybe no one except Bali).

 

[Ohiogal]

Besides, after 20 years, no one is going to argue that she's not entitled to half (well, maybe no one except Bali).

Apparently OP is arguing however. I highly doubt his wife is arguing that she should NOT be entitled to half of it. If she were NOT on the title however the land possibly could be considered separate property. Unless there was a mortgage on the home which included the land. And then it gets infinitely more difficult.

 

[Bali Hai]

Besides, after 20 years, no one is going to argue that she's not entitled to half (well, maybe no one except Bali).

Ohiogal
Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 18,458

And Ohio is NOT a community property state. It is equitable division.

You just DON'T get it do you!! 20 years has NOTHING to do with equitable distribution.

For all we know, the wife has several million dollars in real estate properties and a million dollars in the bank that is her separate property. She might be the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

You are so BLIND believing that the divorce laws are designed to give the wife fair treatment in divorce cases that you disregard that the law should be treating the husband with EQUAL fairness!!

 

[LdiJ]

Ohiogal
Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 18,458

And Ohio is NOT a community property state. It is equitable division.

You just DON'T get it do you!! 20 years has NOTHING to do with equitable distribution.

For all we know, the wife has several million dollars in real estate properties and a million dollars in the bank that is her separate property. She might be the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

You are so BLIND believing that the divorce laws are designed to give the wife fair treatment in divorce cases that you disregard that the law should be treating the husband with EQUAL fairness!!

Bali, just because you believe that you didn't get treated fairly, under your definition of fairness, doesn't mean that no one else gets treated fairly.

 

[Ohiogal]

Ohiogal
Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 18,458

And Ohio is NOT a community property state. It is equitable division.

You just DON'T get it do you!! 20 years has NOTHING to do with equitable distribution.

For all we know, the wife has several million dollars in real estate properties and a million dollars in the bank that is her separate property. She might be the CEO of a fortune 500 company.

You are so BLIND believing that the divorce laws are designed to give the wife fair treatment in divorce cases that you disregard that the law should be treating the husband with EQUAL fairness!!

Yes and then wife would have to share half of the marital property with him. They each are entitled to that. If she is a CEO all her income from said position is marital. As an aside, I am trying to remember all the Fortune 500 companies in Ohio. I am not coming up with any in Ohio that have a female CEO.

Edited to add the following companies in Ohio that are Fortune 500:

Cardinal Health, The Procter & Gamble Co., Nationwide Mutual Insurance Co., American Electric Power Co. Inc., Federated Department Stores Inc., Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., FirstEnergy Corp., The Progressive Corp., Dana Corp., National City Corp., Limited Brands Inc., Fifth Third Bancorp, Parker-Hannifin Corp., Owens-Illinois, KeyCorp, N.C.R Corp., The Sherwin-Williams Co., Owens Corning,CInergy Corp., OM Group Inc., AK Steel Holding Corp., Big Lots Inc., International Steel Group Inc., Western & Southern Mutual Holding Co., The Timken Co., Cooper Tire & Rubber Co., American Financial Group Inc., are on the list.

And I could have swore that Smucker's also was on the list.

 

[Bali Hai]

Yes and then wife would have to share half of the marital property with him. They each are entitled to that. If she is a CEO all her income from said position is marital. As an aside, I am trying to remember all the Fortune 500 companies in Ohio. I am not coming up with any in Ohio that have a female CEO.

Well maybe she takes her private jet to work in Chicago every morning!!

 

[Ohiogal]

Well maybe she takes her private jet to work in Chicago every morning!!

Oprah is not married Bali.

 

[Cross Hair]

To clearify some things. My wife's name is on the deed. We used the property as collateral to secure the loan to build the house. She is not CEO of a fortune 500 company but she has always had her own business. Her earnings have always been hers alone. She has never contributed to the house hold budget, as a matter of fact I always pay her taxes at the end of the year. We have always fought about money, I have never been able to figure out what she does with hers, her earnings for 07 were just over $20,000. We set up a retirement account for her 15 years ago and she has not made one contribution, yet she still wants half of mine.

And NO, she isn't staying home taking care of the house and the kids! That has never been her thing and she freely admits it.

Can someone give me a quick definition of the difference between community property and equitable division.

Thanks

Edit; wow it sure is hard to keep emotions out of this, lots of baggage after 20 years.

 

[LdiJ]

To clearify some things. My wife's name is on the deed. We used the property as collateral to secure the loan to build the house. She is not CEO of a fortune 500 company but she has always had her own business. Her earnings have always been hers alone. She has never contributed to the house hold budget, as a matter of fact I always pay her taxes at the end of the year. We have always fought about money, I have never been able to figure out what she does with hers, her earnings for 07 were just over $20,000. We set up a retirement account for her 15 years ago and she has not made one contribution, yet she still wants half of mine.

And NO, she isn't staying home taking care of the house and the kids! That has never been her thing and she freely admits it.

Can someone give me a quick definition of the difference between community property and equitable division.

Thanks

Edit; wow it sure is hard to keep emotions out of this, lots of baggage after 20 years.

In a community property state anything owned by either party, if purchased with marital assets, is community property and must be divided 50/50, and any debt is the same. One of the bigger issues in a community property state is that a lender can go after a spouse who is not listed on the loan at all, or go after a spouse's property.

In an equitable distribution state, there is some room for a little flexibility in that, but 99.9 times out of 100, assets and debts are still going to be split 50/50, but a creditor cannot go after a spouse for debts that are not in the spouse's name, nor go after assets that are only in the spouse's name.

 

[Bali Hai]

In a community property state anything owned by either party, if purchased with marital assets, is community property and must be divided 50/50, and any debt is the same. One of the bigger issues in a community property state is that a lender can go after a spouse who is not listed on the loan at all, or go after a spouse's property.

In an equitable distribution state, there is some room for a little flexibility in that, but 99.9 times out of 100, assets and debts are still going to be split 50/50, but a creditor cannot go after a spouse for debts that are not in the spouse's name, nor go after assets that are only in the spouse's name.

Property Distribution: Since Ohio is an "equitable distribution" state, the marital property shall be divided in an equitable fashion. Equitable does not mean equal, but rather what is fair. The court will encourage the parties to reach a settlement on property and debt issues otherwise the court will declare the property award.

In making a division of marital property and in determining whether to make the amount of any distributive award, the court shall consider all of the following factors: (1) The duration of the marriage; (2) The assets and liabilities of the spouses; (3) The desirability of awarding the family home, or the right to reside in the family home for reasonable periods of time, to the spouse with custody of the children of the marriage; (4) The liquidity of the property to be distributed; (5) The economic desirability of retaining intact an asset or an interest in an asset; (6) The tax consequences of the property division upon the respective awards to be made to each spouse; (7) The costs of sale, if it is necessary that an asset be sold to effectuate an equitable distribution of property; (8) Any division or disbursement of property made in a separation agreement that was voluntarily entered into by the spouses; (9) Any other factor that the court expressly finds to be relevant and equitable. (Ohio Code - Sections: 3105.171)

 

[LdiJ]

Property Distribution: Since Ohio is an "equitable distribution" state, the marital property shall be divided in an equitable fashion. Equitable does not mean equal, but rather what is fair. The court will encourage the parties to reach a settlement on property and debt issues otherwise the court will declare the property award.

In making a division of marital property and in determining whether to make the amount of any distributive award, the court shall consider all of the following factors: (1) The duration of the marriage; (2) The assets and liabilities of the spouses; (3) The desirability of awarding the family home, or the right to reside in the family home for reasonable periods of time, to the spouse with custody of the children of the marriage; (4) The liquidity of the property to be distributed; (5) The economic desirability of retaining intact an asset or an interest in an asset; (6) The tax consequences of the property division upon the respective awards to be made to each spouse; (7) The costs of sale, if it is necessary that an asset be sold to effectuate an equitable distribution of property; (8) Any division or disbursement of property made in a separation agreement that was voluntarily entered into by the spouses; (9) Any other factor that the court expressly finds to be relevant and equitable. (Ohio Code - Sections: 3105.171)

In practice however, generally judges treat 50/50 as "fair", even in equitable distribution states. Lets not give the guy a false idea of what a judge would be likely to order.

 

[Bali Hai]

In practice however, generally judges treat 50/50 as "fair", even in equitable distribution states. Lets not give the guy a false idea of what a judge would be likely to order.

Let's focus our advice on the law and not how judges conveniently deviate from the way it's written to favor one party over the other.

 

[mistoffolees]

In practice however, generally judges treat 50/50 as "fair", even in equitable distribution states. Lets not give the guy a false idea of what a judge would be likely to order.

Particularly since after 20 years of living in the house and sharing the expenses (he says he's paid the taxes, for example), most of the equity in the home accrued during the marriage. I haven't looked it up, but the home was probably worth less than 20% of its current value when they got married.