Legal Rights Question

[PSU Gal]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Good afternoon. I thought I would give this a try and see what, if any, advice I can get.

My boyfriends wife took almost everything from the house while he was gone and moved out of the home almost two years ago. She left him for another man who promptly dropped her when she wanted to move in with him with the children.

A month ago, I moved in with him at his residence. Since that time, she has been calling him and threatening to have me removed unless I pay her rent. I do realize that the property is deeded jointly and that really doesn't leave me a leg to stand on. She goes back and forth with him telling him she's going to sign off on the property, and the next day she wants it and is moving back in. Does anyone know exactly what she can do and how far she can take things?

She also claims that she is going to have him placed in jail and the minute he is, I have to be out in 24 hours. Her claim to this is because they had a verbal agreement for child support, which when he paid he didn't use checks all of the time (Yes, I know it wasn't wise), and she has now taken him to domestic relations. They did not recognize the verbal agreement and he is now in arrears. He is self employed and it's been a very bad year. We are working on catching things up but she pushed and he now has a contempt of court date for the child support.

I appreciate any advice and please let me know if I have not been clear in my explanation.

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Good afternoon. I thought I would give this a try and see what, if any, advice I can get.

My boyfriends wife took almost everything from the house while he was gone and moved out of the home almost two years ago. She left him for another man who promptly dropped her when she wanted to move in with him with the children.

And they are still married? And there are no court orders? Hence you are committing adultery?

A month ago, I moved in with him at his residence.

Correction -- you moved into the marital residence owned by wifey and him.

Since that time, she has been calling him and threatening to have me removed unless I pay her rent.

You are a guest of her husband's. How is she going to get you removed?

I do realize that the property is deeded jointly and that really doesn't leave me a leg to stand on.

Nope. You are a guest if not already a tenant. She would have to try evicting you legally and you are a guest of her husband's.

She goes back and forth with him telling him she's going to sign off on the property, and the next day she wants it and is moving back in. Does anyone know exactly what she can do and how far she can take things?

There are several things she could do. She could move back in to the house with her boyfriend. She could sign off on the property or not> She could file for eviction or not. Do you want to narrow down what you are looking for?

She also claims that she is going to have him placed in jail and the minute he is, I have to be out in 24 hours. Her claim to this is because they had a verbal agreement for child support, which when he paid he didn't use checks all of the time (Yes, I know it wasn't wise), and she has now taken him to domestic relations.

you would be a tenant and she would have to evict you as any landlord would have to evict a client. Verbal agreements are not worth anything when it comes to child support.

They did not recognize the verbal agreement and he is now in arrears. He is self employed and it's been a very bad year. We are working on catching things up but she pushed and he now has a contempt of court date for the child support.

Well he goes and proves he is not wilfully not paying.

I appreciate any advice and please let me know if I have not been clear in my explanation.

Welcome!

[BlissfulMommy]

Ohiogal, I value your input and knowledge but I always see you shouting "adultery" when a married couple has split up and moved on with other partners. It is called "separation" from your spouse and I don't see it as "adultery" at all. Most states are no-fault states nowadays and adultery is not relevant at all, unless you look at it from a religious standpoint or live in backwards states like Texas (no pun intended). A lot of times couples don't have the necessary money to file for divorce right away - like in my own and my boyfriends cases - and in the OP's case as well. I see your point though but I'm not feeling guilty that I have been living under the same roof with my boyfriend, sharing the bed with him - for the past 20 months - just because we are both still married to other people (my boyfriends final divorce hearing is on 5/22/07 and mine is on 5/30/07 by the way).

[Silverplum]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Ohiogal, I value your input and knowledge but I always see you shouting "adultery" when a married couple has split up and moved on with other partners. It is called "separation" from your spouse and I don't see it as "adultery" at all. Most states are no-fault states nowadays and adultery is not relevant at all, unless you look at it from a religious standpoint or live in backwards states like Texas (no pun intended). A lot of times couples don't have the necessary money to file for divorce right away - like in my own and my boyfriends cases - and in the OP's case as well. I see your point though but I'm not feeling guilty that I have been living under the same roof with my boyfriend, sharing the bed with him - for the past 20 months - just because we are both still married to other people (my boyfriends final divorce hearing is on 5/22/07 and mine is on 5/30/07 by the way).

Aren't you cute?

OHIOGAL is a practicing family law attorney. She calls 'em as she sees 'em. She knows "legalese" just fine.

[BlissfulMommy]

Originally Posted by Silverplum

Aren't you cute?

OHIOGAL is a practicing family law attorney. She calls 'em as she sees 'em. She knows "legalese" just fine.

Yeah, I'm very cute actually

I also wrote that I value her input and I'm not doubting that she knows what she is talking about, not at all. But I think the fact that she generally throws out the "adultery" term for every separated but still married couple that has moved on with other partners is very "yesterday" because most states don't grant a divorce or dissolution of marriage based on fault such as adultery anymore.

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes and I'm sorry if I did

[moburkes]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Yeah, I'm very cute actually

I also wrote that I value her input and I'm not doubting that she knows what she is talking about, not at all. But I think the fact that she generally throws out the "adultery" term for every separated but still married couple that has moved on with other partners is very "yesterday" because most states don't grant a divorce or dissolution of marriage based on fault such as adultery anymore.

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes and I'm sorry if I did

You're trying to change the definition of the word. That's what the problem is. YOU might not WANT to see it as adultery, but the law does. Fault or no fault. It is really very simply to keep your legs closed until you get a divorce.

[Golfball]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Yeah, I'm very cute actually

I also wrote that I value her input and I'm not doubting that she knows what she is talking about, not at all. But I think the fact that she generally throws out the "adultery" term for every separated but still married couple that has moved on with other partners is very "yesterday" because most states don't grant a divorce or dissolution of marriage based on fault such as adultery anymore.

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes and I'm sorry if I did

Whether a state is no-fault or not, it is probably not advisable to cohabit with someone unrelated of the opposite gender until both parties are no longer (or never were) married.

Even if adultery isn't a crime in the state in question (and yes, it still is a crime in some states, although rarely prosecuted), it can still make the legal proceedings livelier than they need to be, and the cohabitation can sometimes be proffered forth as evidence of marital fault, which can lead to problematic financial consequences.

[BlissfulMommy]

Originally Posted by moburkes

It is really very simply to keep your legs closed until you get a divorce.

moburkes, you really think that everyone who is in the process of being divorced should live like a nun or monk until the divorce is finalized, no matter how long it takes ? You gotta be kidding me ! It might be "very simple to keep you legs closed until you get a divorce" if you are a) past your prime, b) sexually deprived in the first place and have no interest in sex at all, c) a bible beater or other religious fanatic, d) frigid or e) not a human being.

This has nothing to do with being faithful to your partner either. I have never and will never cheat on the person I am commited to. Being separated from your husband or wife for an extensive amount of time means that the marriage is OVER and the commitment has ended and it doesn't matter if there is already a divorce decree or not. That piece of paper is just a formality.

BTW, my STBX was cheating on me through the whole course of our marriage while I was faithful the whole time. What he did is true adultery. Besides cheating on me he abused me emotionally and my marriage ended when he abused me physically.

[Silverplum]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

moburkes, you really think that everyone who is in the process of being divorced should live like a nun or monk until the divorce is finalized, no matter how long it takes ? You gotta be kidding me ! It might be "very simple to keep you legs closed until you get a divorce" if you are a) past your prime, b) sexually deprived in the first place and have no interest in sex at all, c) a bible beater or other religious fanatic, d) frigid or e) not a human being.

This has nothing to do with being faithful to your partner either. I have never and will never cheat on the person I am commited to. Being separated from your husband or wife for an extensive amount of time means that the marriage is OVER and the commitment has ended and it doesn't matter if there is already a divorce decree or not. That piece of paper is just a formality.

You can rearrange reality all you'd like inside your "cute" li'l head.

However, reality exists. Reality stands.

And we are not here to discuss Mo's sex life!!!

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Ohiogal, I value your input and knowledge but I always see you shouting "adultery" when a married couple has split up and moved on with other partners. It is called "separation" from your spouse and I don't see it as "adultery" at all. Most states are no-fault states nowadays and adultery is not relevant at all, unless you look at it from a religious standpoint or live in backwards states like Texas (no pun intended). A lot of times couples don't have the necessary money to file for divorce right away - like in my own and my boyfriends cases - and in the OP's case as well. I see your point though but I'm not feeling guilty that I have been living under the same roof with my boyfriend, sharing the bed with him - for the past 20 months - just because we are both still married to other people (my boyfriends final divorce hearing is on 5/22/07 and mine is on 5/30/07 by the way).

Great grand and glorious. However it is not called separation from your spouse. Legally separation is where you are living apart from your spouse and not engaging in intercourse or other marital relations with said spouse. Adultery is when you are sleeping with someone not your spouse. Those are legal facts. If you don't like it, I can't help it.

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Yeah, I'm very cute actually

I also wrote that I value her input and I'm not doubting that she knows what she is talking about, not at all. But I think the fact that she generally throws out the "adultery" term for every separated but still married couple that has moved on with other partners is very "yesterday" because most states don't grant a divorce or dissolution of marriage based on fault such as adultery anymore.

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes and I'm sorry if I did

Actually it is possible for it to impact certain things -- such as property settlements/divisions. The whole dissipation of marital asset thing. It COULD also impact child custody depending on the individual facts of the case.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Actually it is possible for it to impact certain things -- such as property settlements/divisions. The whole dissipation of marital asset thing. It COULD also impact child custody depending on the individual facts of the case.

It absolutely can effect all of the above, which is why it is wiser to not engage in those behaviors prior to finalization of a divorce. Not only that, but it almost always make the overall resolution more complicated, because it generally makes one of the spouses less cooperative.

However....the legal reality of things is that in no fault states, its almost always completely irrelevant once you are in front of a judge.

[BlissfulMommy]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Actually it is possible for it to impact certain things -- such as property settlements/divisions. The whole dissipation of marital asset thing. It COULD also impact child custody depending on the individual facts of the case.

Gotcha In both, my boyfriends and my case, those things are not relevant though, there was no "real" property division and marital assets and THANK GOD my boyfriend doesn't have children with his STBX and I don't have children with my STBX either. I can see the whole picture though and appreciate the clarifications

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by BlissfulMommy

Gotcha In both, my boyfriends and my case, those things are not relevant though, there was no "real" property division and marital assets and THANK GOD my boyfriend doesn't have children with his STBX and I don't have children with my STBX either. I can see the whole picture though and appreciate the clarifications

And in OPs case apparently there are children. There is property. There is assets. And it is adultery.

[PSU Gal]

Good morning all.

Ohiogal, thank you for answering the questions in the original post and being so candid. In technical terms, yes, i guess it is considered adultery when two people cohabit together and one is married, regardless of the fact that they have not been together in two years. While they were living together, she committed adultery twice before, this was the third time. In my research since reading everyones arguments over the adultery issue, and from his discussing this with an attorney, it is evidently extremely hard to prove adultery in PA, otherwise, he would have been able to divorce his wife under those grounds.

BlissfulMommy, thank you for your comments, and I do agree with you. I do not see it as adultery either, but the law and religious beliefs do.

I appreciate all comments, but perhaps there should be a forum for adultery....maybe there is. I didn't realize my post would generate ONLY chatter about adultery. That was not the intent of the post.

Thanks for all the comments.