Is this a lost cause?

[justamom24]

Wisconsin

I was married for 20 yrs to a man who was basically not involved in the raising or our 3 children other than financially and no more than the basics. My children were 18, 16 and 5 at the time the divorce was filed for by my ex. He did not fight for any more time with the minor childern then every other weekend.

I had been working for a company for 8 years and the provider of insurance. The ex worked and still works for his family business. While married the small share he had in the company business was shown on all of our tax statements. This was given to each family member employed son and son-in-law to assure if something happened to the President(mother) that they could move into their positions with fewer problems for the company. During my divorce I was told by my lawyer I said this was a gift. I do not recall stating this. I do not really know how this was done but am aware my spouse and I filed togeather during our entire marriage.
I am also aware that he was at one time hourly with a lot of overtime and unable to take time off to assist with our children if ill and I had used all 5 my sick days on 3 children and myself. This reason he could not was told to me by the President of the company his mother that he was in management in a family business and could not loose time like this or he would not be paid for that day. He could however take a day without loosing pay for his own health reasons.
During the divorce his pay scale changed drastically and he went from hourly to salaried with a loss. My mother in law stated it was due to the fact he was no longer able to drive the family truck (small semi), I finally opened my mouth and exposed his pot smoking habit which also kept him from coming home at night. He has never quit driving the truck but they obviously believe the rest of the world is blind. When it was time to turn in the earnings for support they were extreamly less then the previous year before we filed for divorce.
A move my lawyer was going to let slide until I said wait a minute. The past years taxes were used instead but the judge did not hear of the scheme. Nor did my lawyer question why the changes stating an employer could do that. Again this was not your average employer without an interest in the employee.

I believe she did not use all of her fact finding procedures to assure that I her client was not suffering a loss of finances that I earned throughout our 20 year marriage. I believe there were hidden assets and finances and other monies due to me after the 20 years of our marriage that were not put on the table.
My lawyers comments were we have to believe what he brings or he is in contempt. How do you find out he is in contempt if you do not research these things?
Is there anyway to still research this legally since I was married during the time and then put a motion on the table concerning the contempt although it has been 4 years since the divorce.
I surrendered to my lawyer when I should have fired her.
Although my ex filed my lawyer did the paperwork and basically said the ex's lawyer was incompetent when creating paperwork and she would just have to redo his work regardless. I called her on my being charged for this and she blew me off.
In the end my goal was to get out of the divorce still being able to keep my job and my children in their childhood home.
I had the possiblity of taking him back before 3 years for maintence but finacially due to the economy and the need to not miss anymore work I opted not to fight since I figured I didnt' stand a chance if I had a local lawyer and a traveling to a lawyer would only cost me more work loss and expense.
Can I still find things out? Is there still a possibilty to expose this and how?
Sorry for the lenght and I apologize if the other info is not necessary. I just want to have this settled in my head and heart for once for my sake and that of my children.

 

[mistoffolees]

My lawyers comments were we have to believe what he brings or he is in contempt. How do you find out he is in contempt if you do not research these things?

Wow. You could have explained everything in about 3 sentences.

You filed a discovery motion. He complied. The court will assume that what he provided is complete and accurate.

If you have EVIDENCE (now wishful thinking) that what he provided was false, you take that evidence back to the court and ask for him to be held in contempt - and to produce the rest of the documents. It sounds like you don't have any evidence, just an unfounded belief that he was lying. That's not going to cut it.

 

[LdiJ]

I will also comment on one other thing. If he is employed in a family business that was started by his mother, or both of his parents, the only way that he could have received a share in that business is if it was a gift or inheritance from a parent. Therefore the business itself absolutely was separate property.

 

[justamom24]

Wow. You could have explained everything in about 3 sentences.

You filed a discovery motion. He complied. The court will assume that what he provided is complete and accurate.

If you have EVIDENCE (now wishful thinking) that what he provided was false, you take that evidence back to the court and ask for him to be held in contempt - and to produce the rest of the documents. It sounds like you don't have any evidence, just an unfounded belief that he was lying. That's not going to cut it.

Sorry about the length. Sorry about the incovenience. You never know what may be important.
Did the lawyer have sources to research this better regardless? Or just like a marriage its a matter of trust?

 

[justamom24]

just curious

This then was gifted after our marriage and we filed jointly as a couple. Why was I in any way associated with the ups and downs of this company if I was not involved as far as taxes are concerned? So much for my sacrifices for the family business.

 

[LdiJ]

This then was gifted after our marriage and we filed jointly as a couple. Why was I in any way associated with the ups and downs of this company if I was not involved as far as taxes are concerned? So much for my sacrifices for the family business.

I am confused. If you filed a joint return you were involved as far as taxes were concerned, at least any profits assigned to your husband that carried through to your joint return. You however had no marital ownership interest because the business was his separate property.

How were you associated with the ups and downs of the company?

 

[justamom24]

lost cause

Well when he made a profit it could effect our return, just as well as when he lost. Also he couldn't participate in home and family events ( including medical events) those were all my responsibility because he was in a family business and I was so reminded. Seems to me I was a key player in making sure he could cater his entire life to the family business, making sure I understood that the family business was also the future of his children and mine as well. When I attended conventions even when not an employee his father required me to attend the meetings instead of hanging out with the wives. He wanted me to learn the family business. When I did work for the family business and my ex got angry with his dad and quit I was without a job as well. When he returned I had my own job that provided our health insurance. I had to make sure I was there for our children when he worked late or they were ill he could not family business.

Our retirement was based on his family business. I was told not to worry we would be fine because of the family business. Then you find out you were not part of the family? Oh well now its clear should have been looking out for myself and children the entire time.

Sorry I believe there was a lot of input on my life to assure he could give 100% to his family business. To later be told I am not part of the family or did not contribute.

I surrender. Now I need to learn to move on they win again.

 

[mistoffolees]

Well when he made a profit it could effect our return, just as well as when he lost. Also he couldn't participate in home and family events ( including medical events) those were all my responsibility because he was in a family business and I was so reminded. Seems to me I was a key player in making sure he could cater his entire life to the family business, making sure I understood that the family business was also the future of his children and mine as well. When I attended conventions even when not an employee his father required me to attend the meetings instead of hanging out with the wives. He wanted me to learn the family business. When I did work for the family business and my ex got angry with his dad and quit I was without a job as well. When he returned I had my own job that provided our health insurance. I had to make sure I was there for our children when he worked late or they were ill he could not family business.

Our retirement was based on his family business. I was told not to worry we would be fine because of the family business. Then you find out you were not part of the family? Oh well now its clear should have been looking out for myself and children the entire time.

Sorry I believe there was a lot of input on my life to assure he could give 100% to his family business. To later be told I am not part of the family or did not contribute.

I surrender. Now I need to learn to move on they win again.

You're going to need to look at it from a legal perspective rather than what you think is 'right'.

The time you spent taking care of your kids and the family activities he missed are completely irrelevant. No one MADE you have kids. Similarly, no one is going to MAKE him attend family events.

As for the business, here's the way it works:

Since his portion of the business was a gift from his family, that's his and will always be his.

His INCOME from the business is a different matter. Since he put the business income on a joint return, that income was considered marital. But it doesn't matter if you have 50 years worth of marital income from the business, the equity part of the business remains separate property.

Now, if you can prove that you contributed to the increase in value of the value of the business (and taking care of the kids while he worked doesn't count), then you could argue that some percentage of the increase in value would be marital. But that would be nearly impossible to prove and even if you could, the gains could well be minimal - unless the family business was called Microsoft.

Now, you may have an argument with respect to the retirement. If, for example, a portion of the profits were reinvested in the business specifically as retirement, you might be able to claim a portion. Simply "we didn't save any money because we hoped that the business would support us some day" won't cut it. There would need to be a specific document stating that the business was a retirement fund.

Finally, after a 20 year marriage, alimony might be a possibility.

You need to see an attorney with ALL the relevant facts (not just the ones you think make you look like a poor, long-suffering soul) to see what your options are.

Meanwhile, time to get a job and start supporting yourself.

 

[justamom24]

You are correct its all a legal perspective and most paperwork and bills were paid from his desk at the family business. Probably don't stand a chance of finding out what we did or did not have.

No judge wants to hear the sick twisted details of the power the business owner had on the home life of all involved in the business. Especially since she was writing their paychecks.

The entire family business is twisted. His mother is the president, his brother in law (sisters husband) is the vice president and my ex is the secretary. He is the only one to carry the family name in the business and he is only the secretary if his mother dies. I am guessing the famly business will end with her and the name will change to the son in laws. He also has his percent because he works there.

Unless there is a way to research things otherwise I might as well think of it as a lost cause and let people know to always know what is going on because you never know when the person your married to is going to rip your future right out from under you maybe even with the help of his mother or employer, no matter what they ask you to sacrifice in life to make it work.

By the way I have always contributed financially to our household and even worked for very little money at the family business at one time. I chose not to return there when my father in law passed away because we needed health benefits.

I have been with the same company for 14 years. I make very decent money in this small town and my bills are always paid.

I get child support and nothing for variables since he is a full payor. I am told this is how it works. This is fine the dad would decline assisting with certain things anyhow.

 

[mistoffolees]

You are correct its all a legal perspective and most paperwork and bills were paid from his desk at the family business. Probably don't stand a chance of finding out what we did or did not have.

No judge wants to hear the sick twisted details of the power the business owner had on the home life of all involved in the business. Especially since she was writing their paychecks.

You've already got your answer. If you have evidence that he has submitted false information to the court, you can present it. If you have no evidence, the court is not interested in your speculations.

There is no magic wand that you can wave to get access to his financials (and it probably wouldn't matter, anyway, since it sounds like they have done a good job of protecting the business assets). No court is going to allow you to go on a fishing expedition to examine his financials without some strong justification. That is especially true when the rest of the family would be impacted, too. If there's no evidence sufficient to get a court order, just drop it and move on with your life.

The court is also not interested in what you consider to be sick twisted details. You lived with these 'sick twisted details' for 20 years and got the benefit of it without complaining, so no one wants to hear how unjust it was when you're trying to get money from him.

 

[justamom24]

Ok I understand. My error.