Marital property

[jrw]

Can one person in a marriage unilaterally decide what belongs to them and just take the property? She has moved out and now says she's coming back to take what's hers.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by jrw

Can one person in a marriage unilaterally decide what belongs to them and just take the property? She has moved out and now says she's coming back to take what's hers.

US Law Only

[itdepends]

Yes, she may lawfully take her property. Yes, you may lawfully prevent her from taking your property. If there is a dispute about who owns what, then that's what the courts are for.

She may be able to get a police officer to accompany her to get her obvious things (clothes, etc.), but a police officer probably would not allow her to remove household items that are not clearly hers. The division of marital property is up to a judge.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by jrw

Can one person in a marriage unilaterally decide what belongs to them and just take the property? She has moved out and now says she's coming back to take what's hers.

Let me give you some practical advice that doesn't matter what country you come from...because its practical and moral advice.

If its clothing or other personal items, its hers.
If its something she owned prior to the marriage, its hers.
If its items of sentimental value only to her, its hers.
If its her computer, and you have your own, its hers.
If its something only she uses, and you would never use, its hers.
If its something that a member of her family gave her as a gift, its hers.
If its something you gave her as a gift, its hers.

Using the same rationale for you, defines what is yours.

Everything else is marital property and should be equally divided as best as you can.

Make everyone's life easier by letting her take what is hers, and reasonably negotiate on what is hers based on 1/2 of the marital property.

Doing anything else is simply foolish and inane. I have seen people spend ridiculous amounts of legal fees deciding what household items belonged to whom...don't be one of those cliches.

[Forty-two]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

If its something she owned prior to the marriage, its hers.
If its something only she uses, and you would never use, its hers.

I owned a piano prior to marriage. Only I play. Somehow the court thought that was joint property.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Forty-two

I owned a piano prior to marriage. Only I play. Somehow the court thought that was joint property.

Then you didn't argue your point fully enough, because it clearly was premarital property.

[Forty-two]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

Then you didn't argue your point fully enough, because it clearly was premarital property.

First of all, if it was "clearly" premarital property I shouldn't have to argue my point, should I? The judge should have "clearly" known that, right? My ex-wife's attorney argued with me on the stand in court about a shotgun my father gave me on his deathbed (believe it or not. I think he was just trying to run up her attorney's fees). You ought to read my post/question a little below this one titled "Pension QDRO" in which I pointed out to the judge that what he was doing was ordering a non-conforming pension division QDRO. And yes, I provided the legal cites for the lawful division of pensions. He ignored it.

Of course it was later ruled non-conforming and thrown out, which is why I am here asking my pension question.

[mistoffolees]

Originally Posted by Forty-two

First of all, if it was "clearly" premarital property I shouldn't have to argue my point, should I?

Well, no.

Judges are human. They're not omniscient. You have to argue your point for everything and stbx will argue his/her points. Whoever has the best argument wins.

[Forty-two]

Originally Posted by mistoffolees

Well, no.

Judges are human. They're not omniscient. You have to argue your point for everything and stbx will argue his/her points. Whoever has the best argument wins.

I bought this piano before we were married with only my money. (In fact I was dating someone else at the time). Only I play piano.

How many more arguments do I need, esp. if the law is as clear as you say it is? Everything was ruled joint property, including all of my pre-marital assets.

Same thing with my QDRO (not to mix topics). I pointed out what was lawful. The judge also ignored that.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Forty-two

I bought this piano before we were married with only my money. (In fact I was dating someone else at the time). Only I play piano.

How many more arguments do I need, esp. if the law is as clear as you say it is? Everything was ruled joint property, including all of my pre-marital assets.

Same thing with my QDRO (not to mix topics). I pointed out what was lawful. The judge also ignored that.

Your QDRO wasn't unlawful...it was non-conforming with your company's policies. Your company doesn't make the law.

[mistoffolees]

Originally Posted by Forty-two

I bought this piano before we were married with only my money. (In fact I was dating someone else at the time). Only I play piano.

How many more arguments do I need, esp. if the law is as clear as you say it is? Everything was ruled joint property, including all of my pre-marital assets.

Same thing with my QDRO (not to mix topics). I pointed out what was lawful. The judge also ignored that.

For starters, you are confusing what was lawful with what was acceptable to the employer. The QDRO the judge ordered was not unlawful - it was merely unacceptable to the employer. That doesn't make it unenforceable (as you've been told several times and you keep ignoring).

I don't know what you told the judge or what your ex told the judge. For example, if you told the judge that it was yours before the marriage and your ex denied it, then the judge might well have ruled it to be marital property unless you could provide a receipt. Alternatively, if your ex also had separate property roughly comparable in value, the judge might have simply lumped everything together for convenience. I wasn't there.

Judges aren't perfect, but one thing that IS always true is that the better you are at making your argument and providing evidence to back it up, the better your chances of winning your point.