marriage in the US- divorce abroad - to be recognized ?

[Paula67]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Florida

DIVORCE OVERSEAS…What to do to have it recognized in Florida?
I hope some of you can help me
Here is my situation : My ex-husband an I got married in Florida in1989 . I am from South America and he is Haitian/American. We moved to Haiti and I lived with him there for over a year. I went back to South America and have been living there for 14 years . No kids/no alimony/no disputes . He filed for divorce in Haiti in 1995. He sent me the divorce papers but they are in French. We never filed for divorce in Florida . We have been divorced in Haiti for almost 10 years. Now I need my divorce here in Florida . I know nothing about Florida’s Laws . My questions are :
1.Do these papers need to be translated, notarized and authenticated in Florida ? If so, where?
2.Will these papers be enough to get my divorce here in Florida?
3.Do I need to hire a lawyer to file for divorce ?
4.If not, where do I have to go to get my divorce papers ?
5.How long does it usually take ?
6.Is it complicated ?
7.Do you think I should wait here for 6 months and then file for divorce?

Sorry, lots of questions , right ?….Thanks in advance

 

[Cire]

Maybe some help?

Paula:

Georgia

I am American and married a S. American woman in her country. We moved to the US and many years later, we grew apart. We were living in Florida at the time, filed for divorce (same situation, no money/property issues) and it was done.

Some time later, I met another woman from S. America (I used to live there), and we were talking about marriage. In order for me to marry her in the US, I had to first prove that I was not only legally divorced from my wife in Florida but in her country as well since that is where I was originally married. So, I had to go to that country with all my documents, they had to be translated and finally they were stamped proving I was divorced. Now I was free to marry her in the US.

The point is, if you married in Florida (the US), and he's requesting a divorce in his country, he'll need to travel back to the county you were married and file there before it's accepted in Haiti. It's similar to my position above.

I don't know if I'm 100% correct with what I wrote above but I can tell you that my proving the divorce was timely and costly in the sense that I had to travel back to the country I was originally married in.

Cire

 

[Paula67]

thanks....

for your help but I think you did not understand my situation.
We got married in Florida and he filed for divorce in Haiti 10 years ago.....
Ineed to have it recognized in Florida...
thanks

 

[LdiJ]

for your help but I think you did not understand my situation.
We got married in Florida and he filed for divorce in Haiti 10 years ago.....
Ineed to have it recognized in Florida...
thanks

The US recognizes marriages no matter where they take place. The US also recognizes divorces wherever they take place also. It may be necessary for you to get your divorce decree translated, but that should be all that you need to do. You don't have to "file" it somewhere to get Florida to recognize it. Do you realize how many people in the US get divorced in one state and end up living in another one?...or how many people move to Florida who have been divorced in another country? There may be occasions where it will be necessary to prove that you are divorced (hence the need for a translation of your divorce decree) but other than that....it shouldn't worry you.

Laura

 

[Cire]

Great to know

Georgia

Laura:

Thank you for explaining it better. It makes a lot more sense now.

Cire

 

[Paula67]

Thanks

I thank you both Laura and Cire

Do any of you have an idea how long does it take to have it recognized in the USA ?

and where do I have to take the divorce papers to ?


thanks
val

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The US recognizes marriages no matter where they take place. The US also recognizes divorces wherever they take place also. It may be necessary for you to get your divorce decree translated, but that should be all that you need to do. You don't have to "file" it somewhere to get Florida to recognize it. Do you realize how many people in the US get divorced in one state and end up living in another one?...or how many people move to Florida who have been divorced in another country? There may be occasions where it will be necessary to prove that you are divorced (hence the need for a translation of your divorce decree) but other than that....it shouldn't worry you.

Laura

Here we go again with absolutes and Laura making up legal advise about which she knows nothing.

Paula,
Ldij is not an attorney, apparently a bookeeper studying to be a CPA. She is involved with a group who advocates against grandparents rights because she is angry with her mother. She will advise posters to defy a judges lawful order because SHE does not agree. Her minor daughter was present during a murder and accepted a plea bargin resulting in house arrest. In other words, her legal advise is to be questioned nor will she be able to tell you what to do now, because she doesn't know. She just likes to answer quesitons here and give false and/or questionable advise.

In response to your quesitons.
While most states recognize most other legal marriages and court orders, there are times when they do not automatically do that when there is a quesiton of validity. The same for divorces, nor do they automatically recognize all marriages and/or divorces from other countries. Each state is allowed to make their own laws about these things. Another factor to be considered is when something occured and the the statutes in effect at that time.

In your case, since you got married in Florida in the normal manner, it would be accepted as a legal marriage unless at sometime you later discovered some fraud which might invalidate it. That marriage would be accepted in all other states and most likely in other countries. The quesiton of valid marriages is not so much a problem as long as all the criteria for legal marriage were met.

The big question comes into play with the question of divorce. If you got married and then divorced in Florida, this would be recognized after the final decree was signed by the judge. In your case, you were not a citizen, you later moved from this country to Haiti and then again returned to your country and your husband obtained a divorce in your absence and provided documents you cannot read. Unfortunately, like Mexico and several other countries known for quicky marriages and divorce, they are not automatically recognized but must be validated. The reason for this is that many of these divorces take place with only one and sometimes neither party present. For a foreign divorce to be valid in the US, the parties must consent and both must have accepted jurisdiction for the divorce to be valid. Furthermore, the court officer signing the decree must be authorized at the time of signing, thus must also be validated, that is the minimum, each state may have more requirements.

So, if you consented to the divorce and signed the papers with knowledge and full disclosure, not under duress, accepting jurisdiction and the official signing the decree was authorized at the time of the divorce to sign them, then and only then, might your divorce possibly be considered legal. Since you indicated the divorce occured during your absense and you can't even read it, how could you consent to it or know that it is legal? There are thousands upon thousands of foreign divorces that are not valid for one reason or another. To prove this divorce valid in Florida is likely going to cost you more than just getting a divorce in Florida and in fact may have some advantages.

I suggest you contact a family law attorney in Florida ASAP to resolve this issue, many are familiar with Haitian divorces and should be able to assist you.

If you are planning to get married, resolve this first.
.

 

[LdiJ]

Here we go again with absolutes and Laura making up legal advise about which she knows nothing.

Paula,
Ldij is not an attorney, apparently a bookeeper studying to be a CPA. She is involved with a group who advocates against grandparents rights because she is angry with her mother. She will advise posters to defy a judges lawful order because SHE does not agree. Her minor daughter was present during a murder and accepted a plea bargin resulting in house arrest. In other words, her legal advise is to be questioned nor will she be able to tell you what to do now, because she doesn't know. She just likes to answer quesitons here and give false and/or questionable advise.

In response to your quesitons.
While most states recognize most other legal marriages and court orders, there are times when they do not automatically do that when there is a quesiton of validity. The same for divorces, nor do they automatically recognize all marriages and/or divorces from other countries. Each state is allowed to make their own laws about these things. Another factor to be considered is when something occured and the the statutes in effect at that time.

In your case, since you got married in Florida in the normal manner, it would be accepted as a legal marriage unless at sometime you later discovered some fraud which might invalidate it. That marriage would be accepted in all other states and most likely in other countries. The quesiton of valid marriages is not so much a problem as long as all the criteria for legal marriage were met.

The big question comes into play with the question of divorce. If you got married and then divorced in Florida, this would be recognized after the final decree was signed by the judge. In your case, you were not a citizen, you later moved from this country to Haiti and then again returned to your country and your husband obtained a divorce in your absence and provided documents you cannot read. Unfortunately, like Mexico and several other countries known for quicky marriages and divorce, they are not automatically recognized but must be validated. The reason for this is that many of these divorces take place with only one and sometimes neither party present. For a foreign divorce to be valid in the US, the parties must consent and both must have accepted jurisdiction for the divorce to be valid. Furthermore, the court officer signing the decree must be authorized at the time of signing, thus must also be validated, that is the minimum, each state may have more requirements.

So, if you consented to the divorce and signed the papers with knowledge and full disclosure, not under duress, accepting jurisdiction and the official signing the decree was authorized at the time of the divorce to sign them, then and only then, might your divorce possibly be considered legal. Since you indicated the divorce occured during your absense and you can't even read it, how could you consent to it or know that it is legal? There are thousands upon thousands of foreign divorces that are not valid for one reason or another. To prove this divorce valid in Florida is likely going to cost you more than just getting a divorce in Florida and in fact may have some advantages.

I suggest you contact a family law attorney in Florida ASAP to resolve this issue, many are familiar with Haitian divorces and should be able to assist you.

If you are planning to get married, resolve this first.
.

Ok, Rmet, now you have gone too far. I am sick and tired of your lies and I plan to complain to Mary tomorrow. This has gone far enough.

In addition, I am sick and tired of you giving people inaccurate advice merely because you wish to attempt to make me look bad....because I once DARED to contradict your 100% wrong advice. Its completely and totally unfair to the posters who come here.

You are doing it once again.....and for no other reason that to attempt to "score points" off me. It is childish.

How many current posters are going in the completely wrong direction because of this?....At least 2 or 3 in just the last couple of days. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Cire]

Where to?

Georgia

Val:

As in my case above, I had to go to the county courthouse where my ex prepared and turned in the papers. I believe, and may be wrong, but I believe it's where you live or have lived at the time. For example, we lived in Duval County for many years. After the separation took place, I moved to St. John's County. I asked if she would file in my county because it would expedite the process sooner (not as congested at my court house) but she had a point in that she was paying for the divorce and mentioned something about the fact that we lived in that county and they had everything on record as where it would have to be transferred to my county.

The cost isn't so much in processing papers to legal divorce in the States because my ex did it herself for around a few hundred dollars with a do-it-yourself kit. They all have the proper docs and it's a matter of having someone look over them and officiate it with a stamp and seal. When she applied for it, we met with a judge who tried talked to us to make sure we still wanted to go thru the process and since it was uncontested, the judge signed and we were officially divorced. However, my divorce was only "official" in the States. In order to marry again, I would still have to have official papers proving my divorce in the country I was originally married in which I did. This is where the expense came in because I actually travelled back to that country to do the run around and stand in line process instead of doing this thru faxes or regular mail. The trade off of doing this was one day of hassles verse months of paper shuffling, postage, time, wrong documents, etc...

Now, the process continues in the States too. Once I had the official divorce papers from the original country I married in, I still had to present them to the legal office where civil marriages would be held. This of course changes depending on how or where you will be recognized as being officially married. If the docs are in another language, you might have to wait a bit longer for the translation because if it's not in English, it's like the response above, how do you know what you are signing?

As for me, I personally don't care who responds to this post . Unless a person is a long time reader and knows who is who, newbies like me simply feel better just seeing a reply whether it be from Dear Abby to Laura. We all just want to have the comfort that we're not alone. I know that it doesn't matter how many years you practice law, there is always something that can alter the correct process. Everybody has "their" story and sharing or "caring" as I like to call it, a response may not have all the right answers but it sure is better than having none.

I appreciate reading all of your responses because you both have great advice. If there is one thing that we all have in common is suffering and just knowing that someone out there is going thru the same experiences simply tells me that we're not alone.

Again, let's bypass the names and focus on the problem at hand,

Cire

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Ok, Rmet, now you have gone too far. I am sick and tired of your lies and I plan to complain to Mary tomorrow. This has gone far enough.

In addition, I am sick and tired of you giving people inaccurate advice merely because you wish to attempt to make me look bad....because I once DARED to contradict your 100% wrong advice. Its completely and totally unfair to the posters who come here.

You are doing it once again.....and for no other reason that to attempt to "score points" off me. It is childish.

How many current posters are going in the completely wrong direction because of this?....At least 2 or 3 in just the last couple of days. You should be ashamed of yourself.

By all means go tell Mary. You don't cite any law when requested and tell her that you have advised posters to defy valid court orders. I am getting tired of you giving out wrong advice because you are in too much of a hurry to check out anything you respond with, just what you feel or think is fair to you, it has nothing to do with the law.

Since this concerns a Haitian divorce, it is not a question about US law and your absolute statements will continue to get you into trouble. If the divorce is not validated by an appropriate entity it will not be recognized in Florida or any other state. I didn't make the law, but you didn't even bother to research the question. You can ask yourself the same question, "How many current posters are going in the completely wrong direction because of this?" You won't admit when you are wrong. If you are referring to the deployed poster, appropriate contacts were made to CPS and DA's office, I should think they would know who has jurisdiction and how important it is to approach appropriately when a child's life is at risk and the risk has been verified by COURT records! Does everything exist only in your mind? Can you tolerate anything outside of your mind such as the law. What is wrong with referring OP to an attorney, do you think that will make Mary upset?

Here is a sample of the current process for a Haitian divorce by US citizens/residents, it may not exactly apply in OP's case or even that it is recognized in Brazil. Please note that it must follow the general course I outlined and be validated, see bold.

http://www.divorcefast.com/caribbean-forms.htm

Procedure for a Haitian Divorce
Requirements:

* A valid, current passport
* Mandate to be signed by the non-appearing spouse. Form is below. This must be signed before a notary public. You'll find a notary in every real estate office, every bank, etc.If this is a one party case (your spouse not signing),ignore this paragraph.
* Information sheet…form is below.
* Your original marriage certificate or a certified copy. If you do not have a marriage certificate let us know and we will supply you with an affidavit that you can use instead.
* A photocopy of driving license for both husband and wife. (If both parties are signing)
* Photocopy of social security card for both husband and wife. (If both parties are signing)
* Authorization by holder of credit card to charge card. Form enclosed. This form must be completed and mailed or faxed to us prior to your travel to Haiti. If you are not paying by credit card ignore this paragraph.

Send copies of all these things back to us by fax, mail or courier as quickly as possible. The originals must be retained by you for delivery to Haiti. Please advise us if any of these requirements present a problem.

Your divorce will be granted when you appear in Court in Haiti. You will have your final divorce decree, certified by the United States Consulate, about 10 days after that in the case where both parties are signing, or 30 days if only one party is signing.

Here are 2 threads on Mexican divorces to which we both responded and please note your responses are inconsistant and that Jetx also stated that we can't say here whether the divorce is valid, so how can every state recognize all foreign divorces, you even acknowledge they are not all valid? Are you going to report Jetx also?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=211120
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=225060
I would think that a judge's opinion of whether or not your divorce was legal would hold a great deal more weight than an immigration officer's opinion. Talk to an attorney please, but it would seem to me that getting a judge to rule that your divorce was indeed legal would be the simplest solution to your problem.

Please, don't be in such a hurry to answer questions about which you know nothing or do not research. PLEASE stop using absolutes because there may be an exception, that is why we have a legal system.

 

[LdiJ]

By all means go tell Mary. You don't cite any law when requested and tell her that you have advised posters to defy valid court orders. I am getting tired of you giving out wrong advice because you are in too much of a hurry to check out anything you respond with, just what you feel or think is fair to you, it has nothing to do with the law.

Since this concerns a Haitian divorce, it is not a question about US law and your absolute statements will continue to get you into trouble. If the divorce is not validated by an appropriate entity it will not be recognized in Florida or any other state. I didn't make the law, but you didn't even bother to research the question. You can ask yourself the same question, "How many current posters are going in the completely wrong direction because of this?" You won't admit when you are wrong. If you are referring to the deployed poster, appropriate contacts were made to CPS and DA's office, I should think they would know who has jurisdiction and how important it is to approach appropriately when a child's life is at risk and the risk has been verified by COURT records! Does everything exist only in your mind? Can you tolerate anything outside of your mind such as the law. What is wrong with referring OP to an attorney, do you think that will make Mary upset?

Here is a sample of the current process for a Haitian divorce by US citizens/residents, it may not exactly apply in OP's case or even that it is recognized in Brazil. Please note that it must follow the general course I outlined and be validated, see bold.

http://www.divorcefast.com/caribbean-forms.htm

Procedure for a Haitian Divorce
Requirements:

* A valid, current passport
* Mandate to be signed by the non-appearing spouse. Form is below. This must be signed before a notary public. You'll find a notary in every real estate office, every bank, etc.If this is a one party case (your spouse not signing),ignore this paragraph.
* Information sheet…form is below.
* Your original marriage certificate or a certified copy. If you do not have a marriage certificate let us know and we will supply you with an affidavit that you can use instead.
* A photocopy of driving license for both husband and wife. (If both parties are signing)
* Photocopy of social security card for both husband and wife. (If both parties are signing)
* Authorization by holder of credit card to charge card. Form enclosed. This form must be completed and mailed or faxed to us prior to your travel to Haiti. If you are not paying by credit card ignore this paragraph.

Send copies of all these things back to us by fax, mail or courier as quickly as possible. The originals must be retained by you for delivery to Haiti. Please advise us if any of these requirements present a problem.

Your divorce will be granted when you appear in Court in Haiti. You will have your final divorce decree, certified by the United States Consulate, about 10 days after that in the case where both parties are signing, or 30 days if only one party is signing.

Here are 2 threads on Mexican divorces to which we both responded and please note your responses are inconsistant and that Jetx also stated that we can't say here whether the divorce is valid, so how can every state recognize all foreign divorces, you even acknowledge they are not all valid? Are you going to report Jetx also?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=211120
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=225060
I would think that a judge's opinion of whether or not your divorce was legal would hold a great deal more weight than an immigration officer's opinion. Talk to an attorney please, but it would seem to me that getting a judge to rule that your divorce was indeed legal would be the simplest solution to your problem.

Laura,
Please, don't be in such a hurry to answer questions about which you know nothing or do not research. PLEASE stop using absolutes because there may be an exception, that is why we have a legal system.

Rmet, you are welcome to contradict any legal advice that I give if you have a different opinion. However I would like to point out that you are not an attorney either, and you base your advice solely on statutes/legislation with complete disregard for case law.

What's more, the Mexican divorce scenario there is irrelevant to the case above...because the only person questioning the validity of the poster's Mexican divorce was an immigration officer...the JUDGE said it was legal.

However my complaint is your persistant lies about me. Those lies have been contradicted yet you persist in repeating them....you do it with no purpose other than to defame. That is childish and immature behavior that has no business on these boards. It is particularly unworthy of a person who is in your alleged profession.

You have left yourself wide open for a similar attack, however you will note that I have not responded in kind? Why is that?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Rmet, you are welcome to contradict any legal advice that I give if you have a different opinion. However I would like to point out that you are not an attorney either, and you base your advice solely on statutes/legislation with complete disregard for case law.

I base my advice on state and or case specific statutes/legislation, case law and other resources based on my professional education, training and experience. While not an attorney, I do work in the legal field as an expert witness, am published in professional journals and as an expert witness under FRE 702 provide opinions appropriately supported by evidence. When others have asked you to cite either case law or statute you refuse and slink away for a while. I am not the only one to ask you to quit posting false information or promote your personal opinion. You also frequently fail to address the state specific law.

Also as a side bar, sometimes civil proceedure requires many steps and sometimes is not the most efficient of processes, to circumvent it leads to frustration and failure, even though you don't deem it fair.

What's more, the Mexican divorce scenario there is irrelevant to the case above...because the only person questioning the validity of the poster's Mexican divorce was an immigration officer...the JUDGE said it was legal.

That is exactly the same question, the validity of a foreign divorce from a country known for irregularities in the judicial system. This is something you should be familar with as it affects tax law. In this thread YOU said essentially that all foreign divorces were recognized by all states when you said: "The US recognizes marriages no matter where they take place. The US also recognizes divorces wherever they take place also. It may be necessary for you to get your divorce decree translated, but that should be all that you need to do." THIS IS WRONG, THIS IS WRONG ADVICE, NOT OPINION. A judge cannot just look at a foreign decree and deem it legal without verification, immigration deals with these everyday, they know what documents and certifications are required, and in the case of the Mexican divorce, immigration had JURISDICTION!

However my complaint is your persistant lies about me. Those lies have been contradicted yet you persist in repeating them....you do it with no purpose other than to defame. That is childish and immature behavior that has no business on these boards. It is particularly unworthy of a person who is in your alleged profession.

What lies? I have only quoted that which you posted here and on other sites, if they are lies, they are your lies. When have you contridicted them? You cannot because they are what you posted. Pointing out inconsistancy and verification of facts, is a part of what I do. I work with facts and uncover lies or non factual information. I have to qualify my work as I do here. I don't base my work upon personal feelings or agendas as do you. I have to be objective, something which you don't understand.

You have left yourself wide open for a similar attack, however you will note that I have not responded in kind? Why is that?

Because you have nothing to attack

Now OP, Paula will have to consult a family law attorney in Florida to see if her Haitian divoorce has been appropriately validated and legal or not and take appropriate action from there. Don't worry there are attorneys familiar with Haitian divorces and people who can translate French into English, In Flordia. The verification from the American consulate should be in English, the fact that it is missing suggests it is not a valid divorce, but OP will still have to consult an attorney or the American consulate to confirm, we cannot do that here. YOU cannot state, emphatically that it is recognized.