• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Mediator versus Lawyers, opinions please

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

MontanaBG

Junior Member
state? = Montana
Wife wants to use a mediator to avoid attorney costs. Just beginning divorce proceedings; not filed yet; and I'm just learning and trying to get help as divorce was unexpected: she wants it, saying we no longer match. No kids involved: settlement is just about assets division and possible alimony (from her to me).

I know mediation is a good thing but I'm worried that no matter how unbiased, mediator may be sweet-talked to side more in her interests? Because wife is way better at that than I. Wife comes off as VERY sweet and is also a trained talker - therapist - persuasive; whereas I'm quiet unassertive type. She went thru an ugly bitter divorce 10 years ago (against an Attorney) and now likely to be VERY assertive after the previous one.
I believe that I could simply not sign mediation agreement if I didn't agree with it?, but more likely just get railroaded or guilt tripped if I was to do that. Like, "you agreed to mediation".

I'm 53; together 9 years; wife earns 250k-gross per year while I took early retirement a year ago. So now she will continue her 250k job while I am unemployed/ no income and no (small) pension till age 60. I am wanting her to keep our couple nice properties plus her business property, worth vicinity of 1-million equity; and just want a fair financial division otherwise, such as at least 50-50 of marital assets.
She's already making jibes such as "I didn't think I needed a pre-nup", "just go out and get a job; why should I support you", etc.; and downsizing how much she should owe me.

So, opinions please -- as many as care to share. Normally I would have thought that of course we could try for uncontested agreement with a mediator, but for a less assertive type such as I, am I better off hiring attorney to protect my interests? I had an initial consult with one; although with all this mess I hadn't slept the night before and wasn't too sharp that day.
Am I being a shmuck for possibly wanting a lawyer (meaning, probably contested), versus mediation?
 
Last edited:


mistoffolees

Senior Member
Why are you thinking that it's either/or? Mediators and lawyers both have their place - and you might reasonably use both (I did).

The mediator's job is to bring you and your stbx together to help you to reach a mutually acceptable agreement.

The lawyer's job is to reduce the agreement to a formal written document, process it through the court system, and offer you advice if he thinks that you're agreeing to something you shouldn't. The lawyer also serves a number of other important functions - such as helping you to choose a good mediator, for example.

I would certainly use mediation if your stbx is willing to cooperate. Just make sure that an attorney is involved in the final agreement.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
state? = Montana
Wife wants to use a mediator to avoid attorney costs. Just beginning divorce proceedings; not filed yet; and I'm just learning and trying to get help as divorce was unexpected: she wants it, saying we no longer match. No kids involved: settlement is just about assets division and possible alimony (from her to me).

I know mediation is a good thing but I'm worried that no matter how unbiased, mediator may be sweet-talked to side more in her interests? Because wife is way better at that than I. Wife comes off as VERY sweet and is also a trained talker - therapist - persuasive; whereas I'm quiet unassertive type. She went thru an ugly bitter divorce 10 years ago (against an Attorney) and now likely to be VERY assertive after the previous one.
I believe that I could simply not sign mediation agreement if I didn't agree with it?, but more likely just get railroaded or guilt tripped if I was to do that. Like, "you agreed to mediation".

I'm 53; together 9 years; wife earns 250k-gross per year while I took early retirement a year ago. So now she will continue her 250k job while I am unemployed/ no income and no (small) pension till age 60. I am wanting her to keep our couple nice properties plus her business property, worth vicinity of 1-million equity; and just want a fair financial division otherwise, such as at least 50-50 of marital assets.
She's already making jibes such as "I didn't think I needed a pre-nup", "just go out and get a job; why should I support you", etc.; and downsizing how much she should owe me.

So, opinions please -- as many as care to share. Normally I would have thought that of course we could try for uncontested agreement with a mediator, but for a less assertive type such as I, am I better off hiring attorney to protect my interests? I had an initial consult with one; although with all this mess I hadn't slept the night before and wasn't too sharp that day.
Am I being a shmuck for possibly wanting a lawyer (meaning, probably contested), versus mediation?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Please explain why you needed to retire at 52, and why you are unable to work to support yourself now. Were you married for 9 years, if not how long were you married? What kind of income did you earn before you retired? If her income is 250k gross, what is her actual net after business expenses? How much of the property in question was her premarital property?

I am unwilling to give any advice until I know the answers to those questions.
 

MontanaBG

Junior Member
Misto, those are all excellent points. Yes, I suppose I need have a lawyer review any agreement; and I guess part of my questioning was because wife is saying that the mediator can handle the whole thing from start to finish -- no other lawyers. So, it would all be based on that. Which got me worried.

I don't know the procedure details: I believe she does, because she used a mediator in her previous divorce here.

As for the other questions - valid questions: I'll try to explain. Married for nearly 8 years and lived together 1 1/2 before that. Her net might be approx. 150k and has been the whole time. While I was still working, my gross was 32k and net maybe about 24k. Why I retired: our plan was for BOTH of us to early retire from those current jobs but when my dept. reorganized I chose to do it then rather than wait a few more years; which we agreed would be okay and then I'd handle all the household stuff and more of building project and property upkeep. I was in a very narrow specialized technical field and would be hard to get back into it again now. Properties value: I gave $1 million equity as a round figure, and perhaps 1/3 of that is pre-marital but 2/3 is not: 2/3 are marital assets.

I know she will be guilting me to believe I'm somehow not entitled to fair share. Like, it was mainly HER earnings. I am not fighting to keep one of the properties (main home versus a 2nd vacation/retirement home, which have roughly equal value); and I'm intending she to get 95% of the household goods/art/etc. She'll stay in the home and I'm moving out.

Am I being greedy? Not according to what I've found out so far.

Also, I mentioned "possible" alimony but I had not planned to ask for that on top of assets division. I hadn't even known spousal support could be possible but the lawyer I met briefly said so. It's doubtful I'd ask it: it's not like I believe she should keep supporting me. I guess if it was part of a package: less money in division but a short time period of extra support. It's certainly not like I'd think of PERMANENT support. And hey, she's going to get to keep the exact same lifestyle as always while mine is going to drastically change no matter what agreement happens.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

LdiJ

Senior Member
Misto, those are all excellent points. Yes, I suppose I need have a lawyer review any agreement; and I guess part of my questioning was because wife is saying that the mediator can handle the whole thing from start to finish -- no other lawyers. So, it would all be based on that. Which got me worried.

I don't know the procedure details: I believe she does, because she used a mediator in her previous divorce here.

As for the other questions - valid questions: I'll try to explain. Married for nearly 8 years and lived together 1 1/2 before that. Her net might be approx. 150k and has been the whole time.
That would be a pretty high net. Most professionals in her field wouldn't net that high a percentage of gross, after business expenses.

While I was still working, my gross was 32k and net maybe about 24k. Why I retired: our plan was for BOTH of us to early retire from those current jobs but when my dept. reorganized I chose to do it then rather than wait a few more years; which we agreed would be okay and then I'd handle all the household stuff and more of building project and property upkeep. I was in a very narrow specialized technical field and would be hard to get back into it again now.
Ok, then you ARE able to work and you have only been out of the job market for a year. You would definitely get imputed an income and very likely an income similar to what you made before.

Properties value: I gave $1 million equity as a round figure, and perhaps 1/3 of that is pre-marital but 2/3 is not: 2/3 are marital assets.
Ok...lets say that after marital debts there is 600k in marital assets to divide. Your half would be 300k, and might not be in cash. It might be in property that may or may not eventually net you 300k in cash. The housing market stinks right now. Clearly you are not going to be able to live off of 300k for the rest of your life, alimony would be a short term proposition at best (3-4 years max, IF you get it) therefore you are going to HAVE to work.

I know she will be guilting me to believe I'm somehow not entitled to fair share. Like, it was mainly HER earnings.
Odds are that yes, she will do that, it would almost be surprising if she didn't. That's pretty typical.

I am not fighting to keep one of the properties (main home versus a 2nd vacation/retirement home, which have roughly equal value);
That may be how it gets divided anyway, whether you are fighting for that or not. You may get one property and have to sell it if you want the cash.

and I'm intending she to get 95% of the household goods/art/etc. She'll stay in the home and I'm moving out.
You should get your fair share of the household goods, or at least what you need to furnish your own place.

Am I being greedy? Not according to what I've found out so far.
No, you are not being greedy.

Also, I mentioned "possible" alimony but I had not planned to ask for that on top of assets division. I hadn't even known spousal support could be possible but the lawyer I met briefly said so. It's doubtful I'd ask it: it's not like I believe she should keep supporting me. I guess if it was part of a package: less money in division but a short time period of extra support. It's certainly not like I'd think of PERMANENT support. And hey, she's going to get to keep the exact same lifestyle as always while mine is going to drastically change no matter what agreement happens.

Thanks.
You wouldn't get permanent alimony anyway. You haven't been married long enough. As I said, 3-4 years is the best you could hope for. You honestly are going to have to go back to work, and the sooner you do that, the better. You may even want to consider going back to school to restart another career if you feel that the field you were in is too limited.

Its certainly worth trying to hash things out with a mediator. If it doesn't work, you don't sign anything and you can get an attorney at that point.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
What you need to do is GET A JOB. Quite frankly there is NO PHYSICAL reason why you cannot work. The fact that you don't want to doesn't matter. You can find work SOMEWHERE doing SOMETHING to support yourself.

yes I am waiting to hear how I am bitter woman but trust me, I am not. A judge would believe you were underemployed voluntarily. You would be IMPUTED with an income in any Spousal support calculation.

You also need to realize that you will get HALF the marital debt. How you going to pay that?
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
What you need to do is GET A JOB. Quite frankly there is NO PHYSICAL reason why you cannot work. The fact that you don't want to doesn't matter. You can find work SOMEWHERE doing SOMETHING to support yourself.

yes I am waiting to hear how I am bitter woman but trust me, I am not. A judge would believe you were underemployed voluntarily. You would be IMPUTED with an income in any Spousal support calculation.

You also need to realize that you will get HALF the marital debt. How you going to pay that?
Presumably, he would use his share of marital assets to pay off the debt. However, that doesn't negate what you said - he needs to get a job. The amount of assets he'll have left after paying off debt won't support him for the rest of his life (assuming a normal life span and even moderate spending).

It amazes me how many people think they can retire so early on amounts of money that are clearly not sufficient. They were both thinking of retiring in their 50s on a million dollars in assets. Absurd.

I'll also add the general comment. When one spouse says they want to do it without lawyers (particularly the higher paid spouse), I get very suspicious. I'd be looking for hidden assets or a very one-sided proposed agreement.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Presumably, he would use his share of marital assets to pay off the debt. However, that doesn't negate what you said - he needs to get a job. The amount of assets he'll have left after paying off debt won't support him for the rest of his life (assuming a normal life span and even moderate spending).

It amazes me how many people think they can retire so early on amounts of money that are clearly not sufficient. They were both thinking of retiring in their 50s on a million dollars in assets. Absurd.

I'll also add the general comment. When one spouse says they want to do it without lawyers (particularly the higher paid spouse), I get very suspicious. I'd be looking for hidden assets or a very one-sided proposed agreement.
While I don't disagree with you at all, I do think that we have to allow for the possibility that some people really just want to avoid spending marital assets on high attorney fees.

I am actually more suspicious of the ones where one of the spouses suggests using just ONE attorney to save money.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
While I don't disagree with you at all, I do think that we have to allow for the possibility that some people really just want to avoid spending marital assets on high attorney fees.
Yes, there are cheapskates out there, but with a million dollars in equity, it is foolish to jump into this without attorneys on both sides.
 

MontanaBG

Junior Member
Ok, I'll try to clarify a few points. But thanks for the discussion, really, and many valid points and making me think about a few things so feel free to let me hear any criticism. Some points, not in any order:

"What you need to do is GET A JOB." I never said I wouldn't ever get a job -- just that I'm currently unemployed. Right now this is just about assets division and doing what's fair.

I just pointed out that at divorce, 1 spouse will be in a high-salary job and the other is unemployed. Again, I did not want the divorce -- it's not like I wanted a divorce just to get her money and flee. And again, as in my 2nd post above, I wasn't thinking of asking for Support -- don't really believe she should have to support me.
As for job, I said it would be hard, but I totally intended to earn a little money, perhaps free-lancing/private contracting, related to the field I was in; and then some pension beginning in 6 years from now (I'm nearly 54). I just can't easily go right back into the SAME job: a very narrow field, for instance... at any time of the year, there are NO job openings in this state -- I'd have to move to another state and perhaps work for company/organization that don't care for. And I'm not confident of my prospects for someone 54 and out of work in my technical field for going on 2 years and needing some re-training.
Maybe you'd be critical, but to go back to school and restart another career... well, I already did that once just finishing 15 years ago, so to have to do it yet again, would be somewhat grim to me. I'd rather earn a little free-lancing or volunteer work and then small pension later and live at low income. I will NOT be spending it up: I'm the opposite of a big spender.

When I retired, (and I'm not technically "retired" -- not drawing any benefits -- inactive), the major goal was also for me to do labor at our property. Not just sit on my ass. Heck, just like some retirees, I'm busier than ever -- I watch less tv than I ever did, don't even get to read the newspaper sometimes, etc.

But okay, I did not know anything about IMPUTED income from my former job, and I would accept that.

Yes, you could say I'm voluntarily not working right now. Because we said that'd be a good thing and she'd be able to handle HER own job better with me being the homemaker and doing labor and all: Actually, I spent good portion of the last year in busting-my-ass hard labor work on our other property, building project.

Maybe I'm not using the right terms: I said there may be right now equity of $1 million -- meaning, AFTER debts. Of course I know I assume half portion of the debts; but I also believe that if I'm sharing equally the debts then I have equal rights to value of our assets created from those debts or whatever.

Yes, her Net income may not be as much as $150k. I was using that as a rough ballpark. She pays about 40% of earnings in taxes (because self-employed) plus other expenses, and her gross varies a little year to year of course. So it could be 140k or even 130k but not less than that.

Absurd to retire early? Well, we are NOT big spenders, and cost of living here is fairly low; and we were to both maybe earn a bit of money unrelated to former jobs. More importantly, by the time we were to be retired, assets would've been far higher than $1m plus mortgages paid off. So, without any mortgages, NO DEBT AT ALL, our monthly expenses would be VERY low. Plus own outright the one home that in the future will sell for $1m or more.

Were we unrealistic? Well, I said we "intended" to both early retire but that was still up in the air for exactly how many more years she would continue work. (She is also younger than I, just 50.) Could've been more, or less, depending on retirement funds etc.

Yes, exactly: my share of assets will leave me debt free.

I don't believe there's hidden assets or a hidden agenda. Yes, as for using mediator, wife emphatically just wanted to avoid much of high attorney fees. But yes I AM thinking I need backup attorney.

Splitting the properties? Well, for her sake, I'd like to see her keep the house here -- she has the job here and needs place to live, plus a LOT possessions. (I wouldn't ask for many household goods because I do not really want much of it -- I'm not big on material things and they mean more to her and I'd just as soon let her have them and it may help appease her overall in an agreement.) And the other property (besides her business property), also means more to her because goes back to before we met so I wouldn't want to take it. Looking at our assets figures, I believe she may be able to split the assets without having to give up either. (also, yes there is some Separate non-marital asset in that previous property which is subtracted.)
Property values: not booming here as they were, but news story as of just couple days ago stated our city is 1 of only 16 market areas in entire nation that still is at market GROWTH. Because of very strong economy here.

Hey, I'm just trying to get to a fair division and am bit worried. I'm totally acceptable to anything a judge/court would say is equitable.
Sorry this got long but it is helpful to think this out, and this Forum to help.
Thanks.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
"What you need to do is GET A JOB." I never said I wouldn't ever get a job -- just that I'm currently unemployed. Right now this is just about assets division and doing what's fair.
You don't get it. YOU need a job. End of story. YOu stated you decided to retire early. That doesn't fly.

I just pointed out that at divorce, 1 spouse will be in a high-salary job and the other is unemployed.
The other is VOLUNTARILY UNEMPLOYED and will thus be imputed with an income that he is capable of making.
Again, I did not want the divorce -- it's not like I wanted a divorce just to get her money and flee. And again, as in my 2nd post above, I wasn't thinking of asking for Support -- don't really believe she should have to support me.
Doesn't matter if you don't want the divorce. That doesn't have a thing to do with support. YOU NEED A JOB. So have you started looking?

As for job, I said it would be hard, but I totally intended to earn a little money, perhaps free-lancing/private contracting, related to the field I was in; and then some pension beginning in 6 years from now (I'm nearly 54). I just can't easily go right back into the SAME job: a very narrow field, for instance... at any time of the year, there are NO job openings in this state -- I'd have to move to another state and perhaps work for company/organization that don't care for. And I'm not confident of my prospects for someone 54 and out of work in my technical field for going on 2 years and needing some re-training.
Have you applied at Walmart? Have you applied at temp agencies? Have you done anything BUT make excuses?

Maybe you'd be critical, but to go back to school and restart another career... well, I already did that once just finishing 15 years ago, so to have to do it yet again, would be somewhat grim to me. I'd rather earn a little free-lancing or volunteer work and then small pension later and live at low income. I will NOT be spending it up: I'm the opposite of a big spender.

You will be imputed with the level of income you can make. At least 30k.

When I retired, (and I'm not technically "retired" -- not drawing any benefits -- inactive), the major goal was also for me to do labor at our property. Not just sit on my ass. Heck, just like some retirees, I'm busier than ever -- I watch less tv than I ever did, don't even get to read the newspaper sometimes, etc.
Oh well.

But okay, I did not know anything about IMPUTED income from my former job, and I would accept that.
You are not going to have a choice.

Yes, you could say I'm voluntarily not working right now. Because we said that'd be a good thing and she'd be able to handle HER own job better with me being the homemaker and doing labor and all: Actually, I spent good portion of the last year in busting-my-ass hard labor work on our other property, building project.

Excuses and relatively irrelevant. Any spousal support you would get would be extremely short -- think maybe 3 or 4 years AT THE MOST.
Maybe I'm not using the right terms: I said there may be right now equity of $1 million -- meaning, AFTER debts. Of course I know I assume half portion of the debts; but I also believe that if I'm sharing equally the debts then I have equal rights to value of our assets created from those debts or whatever.
That includes credit card and other debts correct? Not just the mortgage, correct?

Yes, her Net income may not be as much as $150k. I was using that as a rough ballpark. She pays about 40% of earnings in taxes (because self-employed) plus other expenses, and her gross varies a little year to year of course. So it could be 140k or even 130k but not less than that.
Her net is most likely less than that.


Absurd to retire early? Well, we are NOT big spenders, and cost of living here is fairly low; and we were to both maybe earn a bit of money unrelated to former jobs. More importantly, by the time we were to be retired, assets would've been far higher than $1m plus mortgages paid off. So, without any mortgages, NO DEBT AT ALL, our monthly expenses would be VERY low. Plus own outright the one home that in the future will sell for $1m or more.
You don't get it. YOU NEED A JOB. YOu need a way to support yourself because SHE will NOT be supporting you.
Were we unrealistic? Well, I said we "intended" to both early retire but that was still up in the air for exactly how many more years she would continue work. (She is also younger than I, just 50.) Could've been more, or less, depending on retirement funds etc.

Yes, exactly: my share of assets will leave me debt free.
And you will never need credit again, correct?

I don't believe there's hidden assets or a hidden agenda. Yes, as for using mediator, wife emphatically just wanted to avoid much of high attorney fees. But yes I AM thinking I need backup attorney.
How are YOU going to pay for the attorney?

Splitting the properties? Well, for her sake, I'd like to see her keep the house here -- she has the job here and needs place to live, plus a LOT possessions. (I wouldn't ask for many household goods because I do not really want much of it -- I'm not big on material things and they mean more to her and I'd just as soon let her have them and it may help appease her overall in an agreement.) And the other property (besides her business property), also means more to her because goes back to before we met so I wouldn't want to take it. Looking at our assets figures, I believe she may be able to split the assets without having to give up either. (also, yes there is some Separate non-marital asset in that previous property which is subtracted.)
Property values: not booming here as they were, but news story as of just couple days ago stated our city is 1 of only 16 market areas in entire nation that still is at market GROWTH. Because of very strong economy here.
So you can afford to pay for an appraisal from a licensed appraiser for all this to determine the MARITAL portion?

Hey, I'm just trying to get to a fair division and am bit worried. I'm totally acceptable to anything a judge/court would say is equitable.
Sorry this got long but it is helpful to think this out, and this Forum to help.
Thanks.
Then you need to come up with the money to hire an appraiser, an attorney and pay a portion of the mediator. You need to prove your case. YOu cannot expect that she will be ordered to pay for an attorney or to prove your case.
 

MontanaBG

Junior Member
Hmmm, okay in response to my post and reply above, some of the criticism may be valid, or at least good to think about what's fair. Although this seems to me like case of What is a housewife (me, gender reversal) equitably entitled to, with the spouse the bread-winner. Yes, maybe not quite same as some, with not a long marriage (8 years) and that I DID formerly have a job.

Again, I said I was NOT planning to ask for any spousal support. It was the lawyer I saw that suggested that.

I think you're going overboard, or, Where do you draw the line? If there was $10m assets, not $1m, you still think the wife should get it all and I have to go work at Walmart?
Also, should it help make you sympathize a bit more... wife has stated that I provided what she needed after her previous ugly divorce but now has changed and no longer needs that, no longer committed; plus there is bit of infidelity with another guy. I would think you'd be sympathetic: the younger bread-winner hits age 50 mid-life crisis, divorcing the homemaker and takes up with another guy.

Okay, so there will be Imputed income affects the settlement; but otherwise I'm not sure how whatever job or money earning I could be doing in future years affects right now how we divide the assets equitably. I believe others might say I'm not being greedy at all. If we don't reach agreement that a judge would say is equitable, which is all I want, then it is HER that is being the greedy one, eh?

Getting appraisals on properties: I'm realizing that MIGHT be greatly to MY benefit. With stable home market here (see previous post), wife should probably NOT want to risk new appraisals going a lot higher than couple previous ones. For instance, right now if we were to put this house on the market, we would list it for 200-300k HIGHER than the last appraisal. I'm still looking into that issue, because it's possible the house must be sold in a property division. Heck, it's far too big for wife to live in alone anyway (although wouldn't be surprised if this other guy didn't move in). I believe home appraisals around here are about $300; or I even have a coupon for a free one.
 
Last edited:

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Hmmm, okay in response to my post and reply above, some of the criticism may be valid, or at least good to think about what's fair. Although this seems to me like case of What is a housewife (me, gender reversal) equitably entitled to, with the spouse the bread-winner. Yes, maybe not quite same as some, with not a long marriage (8 years) and that I DID formerly have a job.
And I have told women the same thing. Your gender does NOT matter. And if you decide to give her everything then that is on you. I am stating quite frankly that you would only get spousal support for a brief period of time.


Again, I said I was NOT planning to ask for any spousal support. It was the lawyer I saw that suggested that.
And it is something you can ask for.

I think you're going overboard, or, Where do you draw the line? If there was $10m assets, not $1m, you still think the wife should get it all and I have to go work at Walmart?
How much is HER separate property and how much is marital? What numbers do you have for marital property? How long before the marriage did she own the property? What is her business? How much is her business worth? Do you have an official accounting of the business that spells out debts and assets and what she herself is worth to the business? What type of business is it?


Also, should it help make you sympathize a bit more... wife has stated that I provided what she needed after her previous ugly divorce but now has changed and no longer needs that, no longer committed; plus there is bit of infidelity with another guy. I would think you'd be sympathetic: the younger bread-winner hits age 50 mid-life crisis, divorcing the homemaker and takes up with another guy.
I'd by sympathetic? This is not about emotion. At all. This is about the law and what you need to prove.
Okay, so there will be Imputed income affects the settlement; but otherwise I'm not sure how whatever job or money earning I could be doing in future years affects right now how we divide the assets equitably.
It matters because you need to pay to get the property appraised. If I was the wife I would be fighting you on anything that I brought to the marriage. You are taking OVERALL numbers out of thin air and guessing what things are worth. I would be fighting it based on how much equity existed at the time of the marriage and you would be entitled to only HALF of the marital equity. And that is most likely no where near what you think it is.

I believe others might say I'm not being greedy at all. If we don't reach agreement that a judge would say is equitable, which is all I want, then it is HER that is being the greedy one, eh?
You don't want that though because you have to prove your case. You have to prove what the marital property is. She bought property BEFORE your marriage. You are not entitled to all of the equity. You are entitled to only a portion of the marital equity IF said property was converted to marital.
Getting appraisals on properties: I'm realizing that MIGHT be greatly to MY benefit. With stable home market here (see previous post), wife should probably NOT want to risk new appraisals going a lot higher than couple previous ones. For instance, right now if we were to put this house on the market, we would list it for 200-300k HIGHER than the last appraisal.
You guarantee that? Also, how much of the equity is MARITAL? Do you know what the house was worth when you married her? Compared to what now? Oh and you guarantee that it would appraise for HIGHER? Because I wouldn't bet on that. Not with the way the housing market is crashing.

I'm still looking into that issue, because it's possible the house must be sold in a property division. Heck, it's far too big for wife to live in alone anyway (although wouldn't be surprised if this other guy didn't move in). I believe home appraisals around here are about $300; or I even have a coupon for a free one.
And the coupon is for a licensed independent appraiser? Or is for a bank appraiser? How are you going to pay even $300 if you are not working?
 

MontanaBG

Junior Member
To answer a few more questions:
We may have that approx. $1m in Marital Assets. That's after subtracting debts and not including the Separate Pre-Marital assets. I used that as a round figure for here, but not just guessing, although needing final figures of course. 2 big items are the 2 properties, with their previous not-long-ago appraisals minus the current mortgages debts and minus Pre-Marital input. (Both are probably of equal or higher value now, despite the national housing slump.)

It may be less than $1m, although on my list on paper I was trying to be conservative. Even if less (I was trying to simplify to a round figure for here), it's in the 800k-1m range or more. I should get at least half of the Marital Assets, I believe. (Lawyer I met suggested perhaps more, although I wasn't expecting that.)

Yes, need to pin down value of her business. That won't really be a lot: much of that is a NON-marital asset. The business real estate she owns, I may be underestimating actually -- that it may be way higher than when we married.

Anyone let me know: tell me if I have this wrong, but for her business real estate, if she paid so much back then and now it is worth way more, the difference AFTER we married from its value when we married is a marital asset, correct? Example, say value then of 200k (part of an office building) that now would appraise for 400k: then 200k is a Marital Asset to be divided, correct? (Not subtracting smaller amount of mortgage on that, just to simplify.) Yes, need to pin that down: office space may be off value now too but it's certainly gone up since she bought it 9 years ago. You said "IF said property was converted to marital". Converted?, No there wasn't anything like my name being added to the loan, (our other properties have BOTH our names on the loans), but I thought when we married it automatically becomes Marital Property after that?, or maybe it was the lawyer I met implied, or do I have that wrong? Anyway, it's a lesser item amongst the total Assets, and if none of it is Marital, then of course I'm not responsible for half the remaining mortgage either.

Home Appraisal: my memory is a Licensed Appraisal is about $300; and yes, the coupon is not for one of those, but the realtor offering it as a free "comparative analysis" could also be useful -- appraisals are based of course on comp house sales, and they'd certainly have better access to that than I. If wife and I disagree on its value, then we'll just have an appraisal done.

Yes, have to pin down house equity exactly. The value skyrocketed up higher for many years AFTER the marriage. And I would NOT be afraid of a new appraisal, although yes I realize I can't bet on it. Like I said, there was no housing bust here as far as volume is down (but not mostly our neighborhood) but median price is actually UP, especially for our type home in choice neighborhood. Our area has NOT had many foreclosures at all because Montana did not give out a lot of those bad sub-prime loans, and the relatively stable economy this local area.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
You still can't count on spousal support for that length of time. And the more you talk the more it appears you ARE talking about a property settlement spread out for several years. Which is completely different than SPOUSAL SUPPORT. It would NOT be taxable income to you. Or tax deductible to her. And it would be your portion of the marital property.

It doesn't change the fact however that you need a job.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top