modification of divorce decree samples

[coachkat]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah and Alabama

My new husband (we live in Utah) is looking for a few samples of a Modification of Divorce Decree for Alabama. His divorce in Alabama was final in Dec 2008.

His ex-wife fraudulently filed an abandoned spouse divorce by publication, and she knew where he was so she could serve him properly, but never served him to give him due process. She did this so she could get $524/month in child support instead of the more fair figure of $211/mo., which coincides with his income. She is disguising spousal support with child support.

She and her attorney worked this figure up from when my husband was making $62,000/year, but he hadn't been at that job for about a year when she filed for divorce. He had only been making that for about one year. He regularly has made, for the past 10 years, about $10-12/hr. Since he left Alabama, over the past 3 years, he had gone back to making about $9-10/hr.

Once we got a copy of the final divorce decree, it was all over, filing date Nov. 25, 2008. He has been fighting for the past year and a half to get his child support modified, with a denial that just came through in February. We requested the "Findings of Facts" from the court clerk, they say there are none.

His ex-wife's attorney is named John Brock. The judge that signed the Denial of Modification of Child Support, get this...his name is Jeff Brock. It's a small town in Conecuh County, Alabama. These two are related.

We discovered we really need to modify the divorce decree instead of just trying to get an adjustment to the child support. It was based on fraud, which we can prove. We also need to take this to a higher court. Is this possible?

My husband filed for divorce here in Utah and served his ex-wife on Nov. 8, 2008, via a Constable from the Sheriff's office. In this service, Complaint and Summons, it shows my husbands address at his parents where he lived at the time, and the address and income of where he worked at the time. She knew by her signature proving receipt of the divorce documents from Utah, where he lived and worked, and his income.

Based on this, his divorce decree needs to be modified, and he is considering filing charges of fraud. How would he file these charges?

Can anyone point us to a few examples of Modification of Divorce for both Alabama and Utah? We have to do this ourselves (pro se) because we cannot afford an attorney as they are taking out 55% of his pay, leaving him with a net income per month of only $500. This has caused severe financial hardship, especially since we just had a new baby.

We temporarily went on welfare (Medicaid and WIC), and had to file bankruptcy 6 months ago.

Any help, guidance, resources would be greatly appreciated.

He wants to help support his son with his ex, but he also wants the figure to be fair and in line with his income, so he can also help support his current family.

 

[Ohiogal]

First of all YOU are not involved with this situation at all.

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah and Alabama

My new husband (we live in Utah) is looking for a few samples of a Modification of Divorce Decree for Alabama. His divorce in Alabama was final in Dec 2008.

His ex-wife fraudulently filed an abandoned spouse divorce by publication, and she knew where he was so she could serve him properly, but never served him to give him due process. She did this so she could get $524/month in child support instead of the more fair figure of $211/mo., which coincides with his income. She is disguising spousal support with child support.

What facts do you have that back this up?

She and her attorney worked this figure up from when my husband was making $62,000/year, but he hadn't been at that job for about a year when she filed for divorce. He had only been making that for about one year. He regularly has made, for the past 10 years, about $10-12/hr. Since he left Alabama, over the past 3 years, he had gone back to making about $9-10/hr.

Why did he leave that job? He is capable of making that amount so why has he been currently earning $10-12 an hour?

Once we got a copy of the final divorce decree, it was all over, filing date Nov. 25, 2008.

Why would YOU get a copy of HIS divorce decree?

He has been fighting for the past year and a half to get his child support modified, with a denial that just came through in February. We requested the "Findings of Facts" from the court clerk, they say there are none.

Very possible.

His ex-wife's attorney is named John Brock. The judge that signed the Denial of Modification of Child Support, get this...his name is Jeff Brock. It's a small town in Conecuh County, Alabama. These two are related.

Really? Are you positive?

We discovered we really need to modify the divorce decree instead of just trying to get an adjustment to the child support. It was based on fraud, which we can prove. We also need to take this to a higher court. Is this possible?

Are you an attorney? if not, you don't get to prove ANYTHING. It is not possible to appeal an order from 18 months ago.

My husband filed for divorce here in Utah and served his ex-wife on Nov. 8, 2008, via a Constable from the Sheriff's office. In this service, Complaint and Summons, it shows my husbands address at his parents where he lived at the time, and the address and income of where he worked at the time. She knew by her signature proving receipt of the divorce documents from Utah, where he lived and worked, and his income.

Based on this, his divorce decree needs to be modified, and he is considering filing charges of fraud. How would he file these charges? February might be able to be appealed IF and only if there was a mistake of law.

Can anyone point us to a few examples of Modification of Divorce for both Alabama and Utah? We have to do this ourselves (pro se) because we cannot afford an attorney as they are taking out 55% of his pay, leaving him with a net income per month of only $500. This has caused severe financial hardship, especially since we just had a new baby.

Are you working? YOU can NOT do ANYTHING.

We temporarily went on welfare (Medicaid and WIC), and had to file bankruptcy 6 months ago.

Any help, guidance, resources would be greatly appreciated.

Answer my questions.

He wants to help support his son with his ex, but he also wants the figure to be fair and in line with his income, so he can also help support his current family.

How are you helping to support YOUR current family?

 

[coachkat]

(Sorry, I don't know how to offset the text so I did my best...)

YOUR RESPONSE: First of all YOU are not involved with this situation at all.

MY CLARIFICATION: I am affected by this situation and very much involved, and he has asked for my help as I have 15 years experience as a paralegal, although not a lot of it in family law, that is why I am asking for help on his behalf. WE had to file bankruptcy and WE had to go on welfare. Therefore, the family income is being affected, I AM involved as I have been asked for his help in tracking down how he can get some fairness here. I could very well have him come on here and ask the very same questions. He is working right now, therefore, I am asking for him.

My new husband (we live in Utah) is looking for a few samples of a Modification of Divorce Decree for Alabama. His divorce in Alabama was final in Dec 2008. His ex-wife fraudulently filed an abandoned spouse divorce by publication, and she knew where he was so she could serve him properly, but never served him to give him due process. She did this so she could get $524/month in child support instead of the more fair figure of $211/mo., which coincides with his income. She is disguising spousal support with child support.

YOUR RESPONSE: What facts do you have that back this up?

MY CLARIFICATION: See below...she was served by a sheriff's constable of his Summons and Complaint for divorce filed here in Utah. This Complaint delineates where he lived, worked and his income. By her signature and acceptance of Service, she acknowledged.

Quote:
She and her attorney worked this figure up from when my husband was making $62,000/year, but he hadn't been at that job for about a year when she filed for divorce. He had only been making that for about one year. He regularly has made, for the past 10 years, about $10-12/hr. Since he left Alabama, over the past 3 years, he had gone back to making about $9-10/hr.

YOUR RESPONSE:Why did he leave that job? He is capable of making that amount so why has he been currently earning $10-12 an hour?

MY CLARIFICATION: He is not capable of making that amount regularly. As I mentioned, he had only been at that job for about a year. he had made $9-12/hr. prior to that job. He worked at the Hyundai plant. There are no Hyundai plants in Utah and he left the state and came back home so he could get some emotional support from his parents from the emotional abuse she put him through, and his sister had lined up another job for him here in Utah. Believe me, he has looked for the past 3 years, and he has contacts, resume's and proof of interviews, that show he has applied for jobs at that level, but the competition is severe. He is at least working until he can find something where he can make more. With car plants closing, it is highly unlikely he will find a job in that industry again, but he keeps trying. I hope he could find a job making that much, then the $500/month would be just fine. He has no college degree.

Quote:
Once we got a copy of the final divorce decree, it was all over, filing date Nov. 25, 2008.
YOUR RESPONSE: Why would YOU get a copy of HIS divorce decree?

MY CLARIFICATION: Because he showed it to me, silly. I am married to the guy, same address...get it?

Quote:
He has been fighting for the past year and a half to get his child support modified, with a denial that just came through in February. We requested the "Findings of Facts" from the court clerk, they say there are none.

YOUR RESPONSE:Very possible.

MY QUESTION: Isn't a judge required to supply a Findings of Facts to support all judicial decisions? I'm sure my husband would like clarification on this.

Quote:
His ex-wife's attorney is named John Brock. The judge that signed the Denial of Modification of Child Support, get this...his name is Jeff Brock. It's a small town in Conecuh County, Alabama. These two are related.

YOUR RESPONSE: Really? Are you positive?

MY CLARIFICATION: Yes, really. It is the Brock family in Conecuh County.

Quote:
We discovered we really need to modify the divorce decree instead of just trying to get an adjustment to the child support. It was based on fraud, which we can prove. We also need to take this to a higher court. Is this possible?

YOUR RESPONSE: Are you an attorney? if not, you don't get to prove ANYTHING. It is not possible to appeal an order from 18 months ago.

MY CLARIFICATION: From my research on the law and statutes, so far, a modification is justified prior to a 3 year timeframe, when fraud is involved or when there is a substantial change in circumstances. Both have occurred. An attorney is not necessary. He is representing himself, pro se.

My husband filed for divorce here in Utah and served his ex-wife on Nov. 8, 2008, via a Constable from the Sheriff's office. In this service, Complaint and Summons, it shows my husbands address at his parents where he lived at the time, and the address and income of where he worked at the time. She knew by her signature proving receipt of the divorce documents from Utah, where he lived and worked, and his income.

Based on this, his divorce decree needs to be modified, and he is considering filing charges of fraud. How would he file these charges?

YOUR RESPONSE: February might be able to be appealed IF and only if there was a mistake of law.

MY CLARIFICATION: How would he appeal? Does he take it to a higher court? We thought that it would be better to seek a modification of divorce decree, since it was based on fraud that can be proven.

Quote:
Can anyone point us to a few examples of Modification of Divorce for both Alabama and Utah? We have to do this ourselves (pro se) because we cannot afford an attorney as they are taking out 55% of his pay, leaving him with a net income per month of only $500. This has caused severe financial hardship, especially since we just had a new baby.

YOUR RESPONSE: Are you working? YOU can NOT do ANYTHING.

MY QUESTION AND CLARIFICATION: What makes you say that? According to the statutes and law I have already researched, my husband's rights of due process have been violated, she put fraudulent information into a court document that can be proven, so, really, what makes you say that? Why wouldn't a wife help her husband in working up paperwork so he can exercise his rights under law, pro se?

Quote:
We temporarily went on welfare (Medicaid and WIC), and had to file bankruptcy 6 months ago.

Any help, guidance, resources would be greatly appreciated.

YOUR RESPONSE: Answer my questions.

MY CLARIFICATION: Many of your questions were already answered if you would have just read the post more thoroughly.

Quote:
He wants to help support his son with his ex, but he also wants the figure to be fair and in line with his income, so he can also help support his current family.

YOUR RESPONSE: How are you helping to support YOUR current family?

MY CLARIFICATION: First of all, this isn't about how I can support my current family. In many households, two incomes are required. Secondly, we have a household of 5 and he has a prior support order for his older child. See above for what I do to contribute to our household. In all fairness, what I do to contribute to our household has NOTHING to do with how his rights were violated when he was denied, through fraud, his basic right to due process.

SO, anyone out there who is willing to contribute some constructive help, please reply and let me know if there are any samples that I can pass on to my husband, of a Modification of Divorce Decree for both Alabama and Utah.

 

[Ohiogal]

[MY CLARIFICATION: I am affected by this situation and very much involved, and he has asked for my help as I have 15 years experience as a paralegal, although not a lot of it in family law, that is why I am asking for help on his behalf. WE had to file bankruptcy and WE had to go on welfare. Therefore, the family income is being affected, I AM involved as I have been asked for his help in tracking down how he can get some fairness here. I could very well have him come on here and ask the very same questions. He is working right now, therefore, I am asking for him.

You are STILL not legally involved.

My new husband (we live in Utah) is looking for a few samples of a Modification of Divorce Decree for Alabama. His divorce in Alabama was final in Dec 2008. His ex-wife fraudulently filed an abandoned spouse divorce by publication, and she knew where he was so she could serve him properly, but never served him to give him due process. She did this so she could get $524/month in child support instead of the more fair figure of $211/mo., which coincides with his income. She is disguising spousal support with child support.

So when did he find out that the divorce had been granted?

MY CLARIFICATION: See below...she was served by a sheriff's constable of his Summons and Complaint for divorce filed here in Utah. This Complaint delineates where he lived, worked and his income. By her signature and acceptance of Service, she acknowledged.

Was this before or AFTER she filed for divorce? And how does UTAH have personal jurisdiction over her if she didn't live in Utah?

MY CLARIFICATION: He is not capable of making that amount regularly. As I mentioned, he had only been at that job for about a year. he had made $9-12/hr. prior to that job. He worked at the Hyundai plant. There are no Hyundai plants in Utah and he left the state and came back home so he could get some emotional support from his parents from the emotional abuse she put him through, and his sister had lined up another job for him here in Utah. Believe me, he has looked for the past 3 years, and he has contacts, resume's and proof of interviews, that show he has applied for jobs at that level, but the competition is severe. He is at least working until he can find something where he can make more. With car plants closing, it is highly unlikely he will find a job in that industry again, but he keeps trying. I hope he could find a job making that much, then the $500/month would be just fine. He has no college degree.

So he QUIT his job making 62000 a year to move to UTAH. Hence he made himself voluntarily underemployed and therefore could LEGALLY be imputed with that amount. he never should have moved to UTAh and quit the job he had. That is why he was imputed with that income.

Quote:
Once we got a copy of the final divorce decree, it was all over, filing date Nov. 25, 2008.
YOUR RESPONSE: Why would YOU get a copy of HIS divorce decree?

MY CLARIFICATION: Because he showed it to me, silly. I am married to the guy, same address...get it?

Being a smart aleck not going to help you. Just going to let you know that.

MY QUESTION: Isn't a judge required to supply a Findings of Facts to support all judicial decisions? I'm sure my husband would like clarification on this.

Nope. Findings of facts and conclusions of law are not always required. As a matter of fact, they may have to be requested.

MY CLARIFICATION: Yes, really. It is the Brock family in Conecuh County.

Prove that that was an ethical violation.

YOUR RESPONSE: Are you an attorney? if not, you don't get to prove ANYTHING. It is not possible to appeal an order from 18 months ago.

MY CLARIFICATION: From my research on the law and statutes, so far, a modification is justified prior to a 3 year timeframe, when fraud is involved or when there is a substantial change in circumstances. Both have occurred. An attorney is not necessary. He is representing himself, pro se.

YOU are NOT involved. And does he understand the legal definition of fraud?

My husband filed for divorce here in Utah and served his ex-wife on Nov. 8, 2008, via a Constable from the Sheriff's office. In this service, Complaint and Summons, it shows my husbands address at his parents where he lived at the time, and the address and income of where he worked at the time. She knew by her signature proving receipt of the divorce documents from Utah, where he lived and worked, and his income.

Based on this, his divorce decree needs to be modified, and he is considering filing charges of fraud. How would he file these charges?

When she did she file HER divorce? If it was final in December I can guarantee she filed before November 8. Did she know where he lived before she was served? Did he give her his address when he left?

MY CLARIFICATION: How would he appeal? Does he take it to a higher court? We thought that it would be better to seek a modification of divorce decree, since it was based on fraud that can be proven.

I would not be so sure about FRAUD. It might not be fraud. If she filed before she got his divorce filing, it is NOT fraud. And if it was final in December then guess what -- she filed before November 8.

MY QUESTION AND CLARIFICATION: What makes you say that? According to the statutes and law I have already researched, my husband's rights of due process have been violated, she put fraudulent information into a court document that can be proven, so, really, what makes you say that? Why wouldn't a wife help her husband in working up paperwork so he can exercise his rights under law, pro se?

A little thing called UPL. Unauthorized practice of law.

MY CLARIFICATION: Many of your questions were already answered if you would have just read the post more thoroughly.

Actually they were not. Hence my questions.

MY CLARIFICATION: First of all, this isn't about how I can support my current family. In many households, two incomes are required. Secondly, we have a household of 5 and he has a prior support order for his older child. See above for what I do to contribute to our household. In all fairness, what I do to contribute to our household has NOTHING to do with how his rights were violated when he was denied, through fraud, his basic right to due process.

You cannot say that his rights were denied through fraud. Because you have NOT stated that she knew where he was when SHE filed for divorce. You stated that November 25 was the filing date of the FINAL divorce decree.

SO, anyone out there who is willing to contribute some constructive help, please reply and let me know if there are any samples that I can pass on to my husband, of a Modification of Divorce Decree for both Alabama and Utah.

I am trying to give you constructive help. You don't like it.

 

[Ohiogal]

Rule 4.3. Process: Service by publication

(a) Scope of rule. This rule applies as follows:

(1) To a claim historically equitable involving property under the control of the court (e.g., administration of an estate, interpleader, partition) or marital status which claim has heretofore been deemed appropriate for service by publication where the identity or residence of a defendant is unknown or where a resident defendant has been absent from that defendant's residence for more than thirty (30) days since the filing of the complaint and the method of service by publication in such instances is not specifically provided by statute; and,
(2) To a claim, whether legal or equitable, against a defendant who avoids service of process as described in subdivision (c) of this rule. This rule does not supersede specific procedure for publication as set forth in certain statutes governing special proceedings (e.g., attachment, in rem action to quiet title) and, in such proceedings, the specific statutory procedure for publication and all other requirements appearing therein shall govern except to the extent that subdivision (b) of this rule may be applicable. In no event shall an in personal judgment be entered on service by publication except as provided in subdivision (c) of this rule.

(b) Residence known; when publication appropriate. When the residence of a defendant is known and the action is one in which service by publication is permitted, service of process must first be attempted by one of the methods of service other than publication as is provided by Rule 4 or Rule 4.4, if service on the defendant is to be effected in a foreign country.

(c) Avoidance of service. When a defendant avoids service and that defendant's present location or residence is unknown and the process server has endorsed the fact of failure of service and the reason therefor on the process and returned it to the clerk or where the return receipt shows a failure of service, the court may, on motion, order service to be made by publication. When a defendant is a corporation and the process server has endorsed the fact that the process cannot be served because of the failure of the defendant to elect officers or appoint agents, or because of the absence of officers or agents from the state of incorporation and the state of the corporation's principal place of business for a period of thirty (30) days from the filing of the complaint or because the officers or agents are unknown, then such defendant shall be deemed to have avoided service and the court may, on motion, order service on such defendant to be made by publication. The mere fact of failure of service is not sufficient evidence of avoidance, and the affidavit required in subdivision (d) (1) of this rule must aver specific facts of avoidance.

(d) Procedure for publication in actions governed by this rule.

(1) AFFIDAVIT NECESSARY. Before service by publication can be made in an action where the identity or residence of a defendant is unknown, or when a defendant has been absent from that defendant's residence for more than thirty (30) days since the filing of the complaint or where the defendant avoids service, an affidavit of a party or the party's counsel must be filed with the court averring that service of summons or other process cannot be made because either the residence is unknown to the affiant and cannot with reasonable diligence be ascertained, or, the identity of the defendant is unknown, or, the resident defendant has been absent for more than thirty (30) days since the filing of the complaint, or, the defendant avoids service, averring facts showing such avoidance.
(2) HOW PUBLISHED. Upon the filing of the affidavit the clerk shall direct that service of notice be made by publication in a newspaper of general circulation in the county in which the complaint is filed; and, when publication is authorized under subdivision 4.3(c), also in the county of the defendant's last known location or residence within the United States. If no newspaper of general circulation is published in the county, then publication shall be in a newspaper of general circulation published in an adjoining county.

(3) CONTENTS OF PUBLICATION. The publication shall (A) contain a summary statement of the object of the complaint and demand for relief; (B) notify the person to be served that that person is required to answer within thirty (30) days after the last publication on or before a date certain specified in the notice which said date shall be thirty (30) days after the last publication; and (C) be published at least once a week for four successive weeks. In a divorce action, publication of a notice in substantial compliance with the following form shall be deemed sufficient:

NOTICE OF DIVORCE ACTION

John Doe, whose whereabouts is unknown, must answer Mary Doe's petition for divorce and other relief by July 1, 1975, or, thereafter, a judgment by default may be rendered against him in Case No. , Circuit Court of County.

Done the 30th day of April, 1975
RICHARD ROE, Clerk of the Circuit Court of County.

JOE DOAKS

123 Main Street

Anywhere, Alabama

Attorney for Mary Doe

(4) WHEN COMPLETE. Service shall be complete at the date of the last publication.

(5) PROOF OF SERVICE. After the last publication, the publisher or the publisher's agent shall file with the court an affidavit showing the fact of publication together with a copy of the notice of publication. The affidavit and copy of the notice shall constitute proof of service.

(e) Alternative to publication in certain domestic proceedings.

(1) WHEN PROPER. When service of process by publication in domestic proceedings is otherwise proper under this rule and the affidavit made necessary by subdivision (d) (1) of this rule has been filed, service of process may be made by firstclass mail in lieu of publication when the party requesting such service has also filed an affidavit setting forth (A) substantial hardship in the payment of the cost of publication and (B) all of the known addresses of the defendant for the preceding two years or, if the defendant's whereabouts have been unknown for said period, the last known address of the defendant and, if known, the address of defendant's next-of-kin or some other person who may know the defendant's whereabouts.

(2) HOW SERVED. The clerk shall place copies of the process and complaint or other document to be served in envelopes addressed to the defendant at all of defendant's addresses as shown in plaintiff's affidavit and, where appropriate, in an envelope addressed to the defendant in care of the next-of-kin or other person who may know the defendant's whereabouts as shown in plaintiff's affidavit. The process shall notify the defendant that the time within which the defendant is required to appear shall begin to run on the third day after the date shown on the postmark on the envelope. The clerk shall enter the fact of mailing on the docket sheet of the action.

(3) WHEN EFFECTIVE. Service by mail pursuant to this subdivision shall be deemed complete on the third day after mailing and the time for answering shall run from said third day after mailing.

So she filed in September or thereabouts. Did he give her all his information before September?Because she had to publish for 30 days and then wait 30 days. He didn't answer HER complaint. Nor respond to the publication. When did he give her all his information? Where had he lived the two years before he left? Was it with her? Because if so she did nothing wrong.

 

[Proserpina]

coachkat, you're being advised by a family law attorney who is seriously trying to help you. Just FYI.

 

[coachkat]

YOUR RESPONSE: You are STILL not legally involved.

MY CLARIFICATION AND QUESTION: So, I have to be legally involved in the case to come on here and ask questions and see if I can find some resources for my husband that he asked me to find? Is that UPL? Really? I do not plan on representing him in court, he is pro se. I am just helping him find some documents so he can use some samples to get this mess straightened out.

YOUR RESPONSE: So she filed in September or thereabouts. Did he give her all his information before September?Because she had to publish for 30 days and then wait 30 days. He didn't answer HER complaint. Nor respond to the publication. When did he give her all his information? Where had he lived the two years before he left? Was it with her? Because if so she did nothing wrong.

MY CLARIFICATION: He gave her all his information upon leaving. He moved back in with his parents who have resided in the same address in Utah since he was 16 years old (for the past 23 years). He was born and grew up in Utah. It is considered his home state. She had even lived there for 6 months at one point several years ago. She KNEW the address and knew where he worked prior to the filing of the divorce. This was admitted to by her in emails prior to her filing divorce. He didn't get served her complaint, they cannot provide any proof of that, either, because it didn't happen. A copy of the publication was not mailed to his parents house (last known address), which was also required by Rule 4.3. and they cannot provide evidence that is was.

YOUR RESPONSE: posting Rule 4.3

MY CLARIFICATION: My husband and I both have read through this and this is how we know she violated this Rule. They cannot produce proof of service! Neither by certified mail, constable or anything. He did not avoid being served. She knew where he worked. He was never served. If service by publication happened, they were to send a copy of the publication to his last known address, which was Utah at his parents house, and that never happened, either. They cannot provide proof of mailing, no certificate of mailing, either.

YOUR RESPONSE: Was this before or AFTER she filed for divorce? And how does UTAH have personal jurisdiction over her if she didn't live in Utah?

MY CLARIFICATION: It was about 6 months before she filed for divorce. Utah has jurisdiction because he was a resident of Utah for 3 months prior to filing the Utah divorce, which qualifies him to file for divorce in Utah, even if the Respondent lives in another state.

YOUR RESPONSE: So he QUIT his job making 62000 a year to move to UTAH. Hence he made himself voluntarily underemployed and therefore could LEGALLY be imputed with that amount. he never should have moved to UTAh and quit the job he had. That is why he was imputed with that income.

MY CLARIFICATION: He quit his job because he had no where to go but HOME. He was suicidal due to her emotional abuse and he wasn't going to subject himself to that any longer. He stayed as long as he could for his son. His emotional state was such that he needed dire emotional support and he only found that with his immediate family (parents and siblings all live in Utah where he was born and grew up.) Out of the 23 years he has been in the workforce, there was 1 whole year he got promoted from within at Hyundai and HAD TO QUIT due to his mental condition and move in with his parents. That is what emotional abuse can do to someone. He is NOT VOLUNTARILY UNDEREMPLOYED. He can provide proof and evidence, as I mentioned before, that he has applied for similar paying jobs for the past 3 years with no luck. But, he has to still work. Her emotional abuse caused him to leave.

YOUR RESPONSE: Being a smart aleck not going to help you. Just going to let you know that.

MY CLARIFICATION: My apologies. You come on here and blast me with all these questions, and some of them are smart aleck on your part, as well, didn't help. I am just on here asking on behalf of my husband, for guidance on getting some samples of forms for Modification of Divorce Decree so he can file pro se.

YOUR RESPONSE: Prove that that was an ethical violation.

MY QUESTION: Would this be considered an ethical violation? I didn't even consider that. I was just venting about that fact.

YOUR RESPONSE: YOU are NOT involved. And does he understand the legal definition of fraud?

MY RESPONSE AND QUESTION: I am not practicing law, I am just helping my husband find some resources so he can proceed with what he wants to do in filing and representing himself. In you stating that I am not involved, what is your point? If I'm not legally involved, which I know means that I am not the Plaintiff or Defendant, then I do not have the right to ask questions regarding a case, or to seek resources for filing pro se? The legal definition of fraud...hmmm, I'm not sure if either of us understand the legal definition of fraud, except that it is a false representation of a matter of fact. She claimed a divorce by publication, when, in fact, she knew where he worked and lived from the time he left Alabama.

YOUR RESPONSE: A little thing called UPL. Unauthorized practice of law.

MY CLARIFICATION: With 15 years of paralegal experience, I am authorized to do research on law. I am authorized to work up legal paperwork. I am just not authorized to give legal advice, as that would be UPL. And here...here is where you are being a bit of a smart aleck...it really doesn't help, as you so eloquently put it.

YOUR RESPONSE: I would not be so sure about FRAUD. It might not be fraud. If she filed before she got his divorce filing, it is NOT fraud. And if it was final in December then guess what -- she filed before November 8.

MY CLARIFICATION: There is additional proof that she knew where he lived and worked, in email exchanges, within the first month of settling back in Utah. Therefore, would that still be considered fraud? Guess what...probably. The signature on his service of papers from his Utah filing just reinforces the initial facts.

YOUR RESPONSE: You cannot say that his rights were denied through fraud. Because you have NOT stated that she knew where he was when SHE filed for divorce. You stated that November 25 was the filing date of the FINAL divorce decree.

MY CLARIFICATION: I tried to keep the post as short as possible. They cannot provide proof of service through any means listed in Rule 4.3. I really do not know how they got the divorce to go through.

YOUR RESPONSE: I am trying to give you constructive help. You don't like it.

MY CLARIFICATION: Who would LIKE to be accused of not working and not supporting family, when that isn't even the issue at hand here? That just appears to be a personal slam on me. Since I stopped being a paralegal, I have since become an internet business trainer, working part time from home so I can stay home with my 3 children and still provide some of the family income. I cannot easily support our family of 5 all on my own. Even if I WAS working full time and outside the home, this has nothing to do with how his rights of due process were violated.

Would ANYONE like that? So, you are right, I do not like you personally slamming me. His ex is living off of his child support, when that money should be going to his son and his needs. She has actually moved to Texas with her fiancee, left their son with the grandmother, whom is supporting him right now. His ex is using the child support to pay for her own expenses in Texas. She is the one not working. And you think you can personally attack me? Wow...I find that fascinating.

 

[Ohiogal]

MY CLARIFICATION AND QUESTION: So, I have to be legally involved in the case to come on here and ask questions and see if I can find some resources for my husband that he asked me to find? Is that UPL? Really? I do not plan on representing him in court, he is pro se. I am just helping him find some documents so he can use some samples to get this mess straightened out.

You stated you were going to fill out the papers and such. That is UPL.

MY CLARIFICATION: He gave her all his information upon leaving. He moved back in with his parents who have resided in the same address in Utah since he was 16 years old (for the past 23 years). He was born and grew up in Utah. It is considered his home state. She had even lived there for 6 months at one point several years ago. She KNEW the address and knew where he worked prior to the filing of the divorce. This was admitted to by her in emails prior to her filing divorce. He didn't get served her complaint, they cannot provide any proof of that, either, because it didn't happen. A copy of the publication was not mailed to his parents house (last known address), which was also required by Rule 4.3. and they cannot provide evidence that is was.

Technically his last known address could be THE MARITAL RESIDENCE.

MY CLARIFICATION: My husband and I both have read through this and this is how we know she violated this Rule. They cannot produce proof of service! Neither by certified mail, constable or anything. He did not avoid being served. She knew where he worked. He was never served. If service by publication happened, they were to send a copy of the publication to his last known address, which was Utah at his parents house, and that never happened, either. They cannot provide proof of mailing, no certificate of mailing, either.

She could have served him at THE MARITAL RESIDENCE.

MY CLARIFICATION: It was about 6 months before she filed for divorce. Utah has jurisdiction because he was a resident of Utah for 3 months prior to filing the Utah divorce, which qualifies him to file for divorce in Utah, even if the Respondent lives in another state.

But if respondent lives in another state and UTAH does NOT have personal jurisdiction over her then they cannot handle anything but a simple divorce. NO property, child support/custody or spousal support.

MY CLARIFICATION: He quit his job because he had no where to go but HOME.

Making 62k a year he could have moved into an apartment in the area and kept his job. He didn't. HE QUIT.

He was suicidal due to her emotional abuse and he wasn't going to subject himself to that any longer. He stayed as long as he could for his son. His emotional state was such that he needed dire emotional support and he only found that with his immediate family (parents and siblings all live in Utah where he was born and grew up.) Out of the 23 years he has been in the workforce, there was 1 whole year he got promoted from within at Hyundai and HAD TO QUIT due to his mental condition and move in with his parents. That is what emotional abuse can do to someone. He is NOT VOLUNTARILY UNDEREMPLOYED.

HE IS. HE QUIT HIS JOB. That makes him voluntarily underemployed. HE voluntarily made the choice to QUIT.

He can provide proof and evidence, as I mentioned before, that he has applied for similar paying jobs for the past 3 years with no luck. But, he has to still work. Her emotional abuse caused him to leave.

What proof does he have of EMOTIONAL abuse? Police reports? Restraining orders? He could have moved into an apartment near her. LEGALLY he is voluntarily underemployed.

MY CLARIFICATION: My apologies. You come on here and blast me with all these questions, and some of them are smart aleck on your part, as well, didn't help. I am just on here asking on behalf of my husband, for guidance on getting some samples of forms for Modification of Divorce Decree so he can file pro se.

Notice I am the only trying to help you? See, that is because my questions matter.

MY QUESTION: Would this be considered an ethical violation? I didn't even consider that. I was just venting about that fact.

Maybe maybe not. But unless HE can prove that something untoward happened, there is nothing to be done.

MY RESPONSE AND QUESTION: I am not practicing law, I am just helping my husband find some resources so he can proceed with what he wants to do in filing and representing himself. In you stating that I am not involved, what is your point? If I'm not legally involved, which I know means that I am not the Plaintiff or Defendant, then I do not have the right to ask questions regarding a case, or to seek resources for filing pro se? The legal definition of fraud...hmmm, I'm not sure if either of us understand the legal definition of fraud, except that it is a false representation of a matter of fact. She claimed a divorce by publication, when, in fact, she knew where he worked and lived from the time he left Alabama.

HE would need to prove that she KNEW where he lived and how to get ahold of him from the time he left. And, that he was not avoiding service.

MY CLARIFICATION: With 15 years of paralegal experience, I am authorized to do research on law. I am authorized to work up legal paperwork. I am just not authorized to give legal advice, as that would be UPL. And here...here is where you are being a bit of a smart aleck...it really doesn't help, as you so eloquently put it.

Then you can suffer on your own. Go get one of your employers to help you.

MY CLARIFICATION: There is additional proof that she knew where he lived and worked, in email exchanges, within the first month of settling back in Utah. Therefore, would that still be considered fraud? Guess what...probably. The signature on his service of papers from his Utah filing just reinforces the initial facts.

Since you know everything go do it ALL on your own. Heck you can find the papers in a heart beat and do it all. okay?

MY CLARIFICATION: I tried to keep the post as short as possible. They cannot provide proof of service through any means listed in Rule 4.3. I really do not know how they got the divorce to go through.

You weren't there.

MY CLARIFICATION: Who would LIKE to be accused of not working and not supporting family, when that isn't even the issue at hand here? That just appears to be a personal slam on me. Since I stopped being a paralegal, I have since become an internet business trainer, working part time from home so I can stay home with my 3 children and still provide some of the family income. I cannot easily support our family of 5 all on my own. Even if I WAS working full time and outside the home, this has nothing to do with how his rights of due process were violated.

It was a question. You are legally required to work to support your family.

Would ANYONE like that? So, you are right, I do not like you personally slamming me. His ex is living off of his child support, when that money should be going to his son and his needs. She has actually moved to Texas with her fiancee, left their son with the grandmother, whom is supporting him right now. His ex is using the child support to pay for her own expenses in Texas. She is the one not working. And you think you can personally attack me? Wow...I find that fascinating

So what has your dear sainted husband done about the fact that his son is not living with a parent?

 

[coachkat]

YOUR RESPONSE: You stated you were going to fill out the papers and such. That is UPL.

MY CLARIFICATION: Working up the papers is not UPL, that is standard for what paralegals do. They do the paperwork, you should know this! Do you have any paralegals that work for you?

YOUR RESPONSE: Technically his last known address could be THE MARITAL RESIDENCE.

MY CLARIFICATION: NOT when she knew for a good 6 months to a year where he was currently living AND working AND had contact by phone. Isn't it the last known address that is required to serve legal papers?

YOUR RESPONSE: She could have served him at THE MARITAL RESIDENCE.

MY CLARIFICATION: NOT when she knew where he was currently living AND working. What statute supports your response?

YOUR RESPONSE: But if respondent lives in another state and UTAH does NOT have personal jurisdiction over her then they cannot handle anything but a simple divorce. NO property, child support/custody or spousal support.

MY CLARIFICATION: The Utah divorce filing really doesn't matter at this point. It just shows supporting proof that she knew where he lived and worked.

YOUR RESPONSE: Making 62k a year he could have moved into an apartment in the area and kept his job. He didn't. HE QUIT.

MY CLARIFICATION: That's all speculation. He could have done many things, but what was best for his emotional health was to move back home.

YOUR RESPONSE: HE IS. HE QUIT HIS JOB. That makes him voluntarily underemployed. HE voluntarily made the choice to QUIT.

MY CLARIFICATION: They would have to prove that he isn't putting forth good faith efforts to obtain work at the same level, wouldn't they? Case law shows that they would have to show that he hasn't applied for work and that he is still capable of making that level of money still. They would have to show that the local economy, job openings, etc., are abundant. So, are you saying you think he is a deadbeat?

YOUR RESPONSE: He could have moved into an apartment near her. LEGALLY he is voluntarily underemployed.

MY CLARIFICATION: He could not move into an apartment near her, nothing was available at the time. He had a job lined up in Utah, as well, but that job fell through when he got here, therefore, he is NOT VOLUNTARILY UNDEREMPLOYED. I could see if he had a degree and worked at $62K/yr for many years, then got a job at $10/hr. That is supported by case law. That is not the case for him.

YOUR RESPONSE: Notice I am the only trying to help you? See, that is because my questions matter.

MY CLARIFICATION AND QUESTION: How do your questions matter? I really do not know where this is going. Do you have any resources to share that would be useful to my husband? Or are you just trying to stir up debate to feed your ego?

YOUR RESPONSE: Maybe maybe not. But unless HE can prove that something untoward happened, there is nothing to be done.

MY RESPONSE: Thank you, this is the first bit of advice I can pass on to him that seems constructive and helpful.

YOUR RESPONSE: Then you can suffer on your own. Go get one of your employers to help you.

MY RESPONSE: Okay, AGAIN, being a smart aleck doesn't help anyone. As I mentioned in my previous post, I do not work for an attorney anymore, I am an internet business trainer, now. So, I have no access to attorneys anymore, hence, why I am online looking for some resources.

YOUR RESPONSE: HE would need to prove that she KNEW where he lived and how to get ahold of him from the time he left. And, that he was not avoiding service.

MY CLARIFICATION: As mentioned before, he has emails and communications that show she KNEW where he lived and worked. You cannot avoid service when you work in retail. She COULD HAVE served him at his place of employment. She didn't have him served at all. He lived at his parents house, and AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, they have had the same residence for the past 23 years, as well as the same number, and she knew the number because it was her OWN number for 6 months when they lived in Utah several years ago (living with his parents). In fact, he would call his son every week from there. She claimed she filed for divorce, he told her he hasn't received anything yet and asked her to serve him. He never got anything, so he thought it was just one of her many lies. So, he finally realized it was up to him to file for divorce. He got Utah Legal Services to help him, that is how he knew he could file a Utah divorce.

YOUR RESPONSE: Since you know everything go do it ALL on your own. Heck you can find the papers in a heart beat and do it all. okay?

MY CLARIFICATION: I already admit that I don't know it all, and AGAIN, being a smart aleck isn't helpful, although you claim to be on here to help? Really? wow... And, I cannot find the papers in a heart beat, that's why I am reaching out asking for help.

YOUR RESPONSE: You weren't there.

MY RESPONSE: Ummm...right, that is why I really don't know how they got the divorce to go through as they did not have all the proof, evidence or documentation to have a default by publication divorce to go through.
If that's what you meant by "You weren't there." Is that what you meant?

YOUR RESPONSE: It was a question. You are legally required to work to support your family.

MY QUESTION: But how is this question helpful to my husband's situation? How is it even relevant to this thread? Isn't his ex also legally required to work to help support their son?

YOUR RESPONSE: So what has your dear sainted husband done about the fact that his son is not living with a parent?

MY RESPONSE: I will ignore your smart aleck "sainted husband" phrasology, as he is not perfect, but he is a good man and a good father. I have known him since we were 8 yrs. old and I have been a family friend for all these years.

He only just found out this week that his son is living with the grandmother and that his ex is settling in Texas, so that is why he has asked me to find some samples of modifications, he is also going to contact an Alabama firm we just found yesterday that may take him pro bono as he qualifies at under 125% poverty level. He may seek child custody as he feels his son living with his grandmother is probably not the best situation.

He really misses his son. He wants the best for him, and he also wants the best for our family, too, as well as his oldest son. He wants to pay what is reasonable and fair. When child support is set at too high of a level that causes undue hardship, it can and should be adjusted. Do you not agree with that?

If he ever gets a job making that much money again, HE will voluntarily get the child support adjusted so his son can get more. That is only fair, don't you agree?

 

[coachkat]

We have the help we need now

I actually do not need any additional questions answered on this forum. It seems to have been a waste of my time. Thank you, I am closing the thread now.