Mother vs. Father Rights

[Red Bull]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

We will be losing our house (in New Jersey) to foreclosure shortly. We have been married three years with an 11 month old son. We had been for several months living in my mother-in-laws living room in New York. For a variety of reasons, I was asked to leave, which I did, and am living with family in Connnecticut. We are doing marriage counseling, however my wife has said she wants a divorce (I basically don't know which she is serious about).
Now, she has been accomodating about me seeing my son, and I see him most days.

However, she has exerted absolute and total control over him. So she repeatedly stated a desire for me to visit on alternating days, as she has things to do and she has to "get on with her life." ( I call her every day asking to be able to come over, and most days she consents). She finds excuses to give me his SSN number (a relative wishes to buy him a savings bond, and his card in her mother's safe deposit box), or the name and address of his new pediatrician. She has already booked a trip to Florida with our son and her mother (the first time it was booked, I was invited to come along if I wanted to. She eventually cancelled it, not because of my outrage, but because we needed money to eat. But a few months later she used money that was given to us by my father to book again, and this time I was not invited). She is also planning a trip to Puerto Rico with our son and her mom to visit family there (again, no invitation forthcoming to me).

There are a lot of other issues which caused a lot of problems. I don't want to rock the boat if keeping things on an even keel can help develop a reconcilliation (she tends to get a bit defensive and upset when I do question about things). Its been a stressfull and joyous 2008 for both of us. But to what extent does my aquiesence to her control and decision making with respect to my son make it look like I am a disinterested parent to a court? To what extent does her actions make her look bad? And since all this is occurring completely around her family, with no real witnesses on my end, does keeping a journal about visits written in a dayplanner purchased at Staples have any relevence anywhere? What should, and should not be written in it? Does my wife have the right to take my son to Florida for a week without my okay (I am not worried about her not returning)? Do I have the right to take him to visit my folks for a few hours out of state without hers (I am not out traumatise him as he is much more familiar with her side of the family than mine, and he would be returned)? I guess I am rambling here.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[mistoffolees]

Until one of you files for divorce, you both have equal rights and can travel within the US with the child. Traveling outside the US without the other parent's consent is a problem, but since PR is a U.S. territory, it may count as US travel (I don't know one way or the other).

Once a divorce is filed, one of you can ask for temporary custody - or you can agree to shared custody on a temporary basis. If you don't agree on how custody will be handled and one of you asks the court, they will decide on the basis of what's best for the child - which will involve who the child is spending the most time with now, nearness of family, which home the child lives in, and so on. Once temporary custody is awarded, it is hard to change.

Keeping a journal is a good idea. By itself, it is probably not admissible into court, but it is certainly valid as a memory refresher for you. If you have a journal and state that you saw the child 25 days last month (for example), you can say that with a lot more confidence than if there's no written record.

I'm not sure what actions you're talking about that make her look bad. She lets you see your child almost whenever you want. She visits her family with the child (which is certainly quite legal). There's really nothing that you've mentioned so far that's going to make her look bad.

I would get reconciliation out of your mind. While it's always worth considering, it takes 2 people to reconcile. Meanwhile, I've seen far too many cases where one person wants to reconcile and the other doesn't - and the first person gets steamrolled because they're holding out for reconciliation. Learn about divorce and what is involved so you can make sure you're not taken advantage of. If you reconcile, then knowing your divorce options won't hurt you. But if you DON'T reconcile, you can get clobbered if you don't consider divorce as a real possibility.

 

[Red Bull]

Until one of you files for divorce, you both have equal rights and can travel within the US with the child. Traveling outside the US without the other parent's consent is a problem, but since PR is a U.S. territory, it may count as US travel (I don't know one way or the other).

Fair enough. My son is with my wife residing with my mother-in-law in her apartment. Can my wife stop me from taking him out against her wishes (I understand my mother-in-law has no say, though I suppose she can deny me admittance into her apartment)? There are no issues of kidnapping and such which can be claimed? Its no different than her taking him to Florida (all of this assumes prefiling)?

I'm not sure what actions you're talking about that make her look bad.

I would think not giving me his SSN so a savings bond could be purchased for him would be something that she could not do. Or deny me knowledge of his doctors. She would be obligated to do so, would she not?

Thank you for your response.

 

[Ohiogal]

Fair enough. My son is with my wife residing with my mother-in-law in her apartment. Can my wife stop me from taking him out against her wishes (I understand my mother-in-law has no say, though I suppose she can deny me admittance into her apartment)? There are no issues of kidnapping and such which can be claimed? Its no different than her taking him to Florida (all of this assumes prefiling)?

She could stop you by not allowing you access to the apartment and by calling the police if you try to leave with the child. The police would then not allow the child's removal. You could also face charges possibly of domestic violence, battery or assault depending on how you removed the child.

I would think not giving me his SSN so a savings bond could be purchased for him would be something that she could not do. Or deny me knowledge of his doctors. She would be obligated to do so, would she not?

Thank you for your response.

Take the child's birth certificate, go the SS administration and get a second copy of the child's card. And when you file for divorce you can ask for the names of his doctors.

 

[Red Bull]

She could stop you by not allowing you access to the apartment and by calling the police if you try to leave with the child. The police would then not allow the child's removal. You could also face charges possibly of domestic violence, battery or assault depending on how you removed the child.

Okay. So general rule of thumb is that my wife can go anywhere in the USA with my son she chooses, and I cannot stop her. But she can stop me from doing the same, even though there has been nothing done with respects to any divorce filings, or any other court issues.
Would that be a fair, general summary?

Take the child's birth certificate, go the SS administration and get a second copy of the child's card. And when you file for divorce you can ask for the names of his doctors.

OK. So basically I have no rights to him or information about him that my wife is obligated to disclose simply because we are married and I am his father. Possession being 9/10 of the law and all those cliches.

 

[mistoffolees]

OK. So basically I have no rights to him or information about him that my wife is obligated to disclose simply because we are married and I am his father. Possession being 9/10 of the law and all those cliches.

That's not right.

As Ohiogal said, you can not enter her apartment. You can not physically fight over the child. But you have equal parental rights until the court says otherwise.

Frankly, if she won't let you take the child to visit your parents, then you're not looking at reconciliation. File for divorce and file a custody and parenting plan and then all of your rights will be spelled out. If she violates them, you file for contempt.

 

[Red Bull]

That's not right.

As Ohiogal said, you can not enter her apartment. You can not physically fight over the child. But you have equal parental rights until the court says otherwise.

Frankly, if she won't let you take the child to visit your parents, then you're not looking at reconciliation. File for divorce and file a custody and parenting plan and then all of your rights will be spelled out. If she violates them, you file for contempt.

I guess what it seems to me is that in order to claim my equal rights to my son, I have to file for divorce. This does not seem to be true for my wife.
Thank you for the response.

 

[mommyof4]

I guess what it seems to me is that in order to claim my equal rights to my son, I have to file for divorce. This does not seem to be true for my wife.
Thank you for the response.

It would be if you had your child in your possession.

As stated, you both have equal rights. The problem you have is that the child is residing in her mother's home and you do not have the right to enter her mother's home at your whim.

 

[Red Bull]

It would be if you had your child in your possession.

As stated, you both have equal rights. The problem you have is that the child is residing in her mother's home and you do not have the right to enter her mother's home at your whim.

Okay thank you for your response. I understand I cannot enter my mother in laws home without her okay.

But it also seems that I cannot take him out if I want to, absent my wife's permission. This does not seem to be the case for my wife to obtain permission from me to take him out.
I guess it is all due to living arrangements.

As an aside, can my mother in law deny me access to my son when he is in her apartment, absent the presence of my wife? Can she refuse me from taking him out in such a situation? I am not trying to be slick here, or plotting anything. My wife has allowed me to visit my son on almost a regular basis, but only when she was there. I have done this. But I have also aquiesced to avoid "rocking the boat." But I am within my rights to "rock the boat," to exercise my present equal rights to my son, to go and take him out for a while? Does it make me look bad, or my wife and her mother look bad for stopping me (assuming they do)? I wouldn't take him out if he was asleep, or eating, not feeling well ect. I am not out to traumatise my son. But he is my son and my wife wishes to exercise total control. I guess she cant do that, and a divorce proceedings would be the safest and best bet to make that point clear, absent reconcilliation. And I guess I am just rambling right now.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

We will be losing our house (in New Jersey) to foreclosure shortly. We have been married three years with an 11 month old son. We had been for several months living in my mother-in-laws living room in New York. For a variety of reasons, I was asked to leave, which I did, and am living with family in Connnecticut. We are doing marriage counseling, however my wife has said she wants a divorce (I basically don't know which she is serious about).
Now, she has been accomodating about me seeing my son, and I see him most days.

Be greatful for that, not all soon to be exes are so accomodating.

However, she has exerted absolute and total control over him. So she repeatedly stated a desire for me to visit on alternating days, as she has things to do and she has to "get on with her life." ( I call her every day asking to be able to come over, and most days she consents).[/quote]

She isn't necessarily wrong about that. Once you get divorced you will not be seeing your son every day. The best you can hope for is a 50/50 arrangement.

She finds excuses to give me his SSN number (a relative wishes to buy him a savings bond, and his card in her mother's safe deposit box),

You don't need to get the SSN from mom. Go get your own copy at the SSA.

or the name and address of his new pediatrician.

Not particularly nice on her part, but fairly minor in the whole scheme of things. That will get resolved in the divorce.

She has already booked a trip to Florida with our son and her mother (the first time it was booked, I was invited to come along if I wanted to. She eventually cancelled it, not because of my outrage, but because we needed money to eat. But a few months later she used money that was given to us by my father to book again, and this time I was not invited). She is also planning a trip to Puerto Rico with our son and her mom to visit family there (again, no invitation forthcoming to me).

She is allowed to do that, and no she doesn't have to invite you to go along.

There are a lot of other issues which caused a lot of problems. I don't want to rock the boat if keeping things on an even keel can help develop a reconcilliation (she tends to get a bit defensive and upset when I do question about things).

Actually, you have two reasons to keep things on an even keel. 1) She is being very accomodating about you see your child, and 2) potential reconciliation

Its been a stressfull and joyous 2008 for both of us. But to what extent does my aquiesence to her control and decision making with respect to my son make it look like I am a disinterested parent to a court?

You are making an effort to see your child very frequently. You will not at all look like a disinterested parent to a court.

To what extent does her actions make her look bad?

So far, she hasn't done anything to make herself look bad.

And since all this is occurring completely around her family, with no real witnesses on my end, does keeping a journal about visits written in a dayplanner purchased at Staples have any relevence anywhere? What should, and should not be written in it?

Keeping a journal cannot hurt, as a refresher to your memory.

Does my wife have the right to take my son to Florida for a week without my okay (I am not worried about her not returning)?

Already answered.

Do I have the right to take him to visit my folks for a few hours out of state without hers (I am not out traumatise him as he is much more familiar with her side of the family than mine, and he would be returned)? I guess I am rambling here.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Yes, you have that right. However, unfortunately since mom currently has possession of the child, you cannot do it without her agreement...at least not without putting yourself at risk.

Dad, you really have a pretty amicable situation going here...a situation that is much better than what many parents have to deal with.

 

[Red Bull]

Dad, you really have a pretty amicable situation going here...a situation that is much better than what many parents have to deal with.

Perhaps. Its particularly galling to be accused of not doing things, as a basis for separation, which my wife had always insisted she was going to take care of. And she always did. I was tossed out because my mother-in-law was upset because I had asked her to see my son, whom I had not seen all that day.

Thank you for your time.

 

[mistoffolees]

Perhaps. Its particularly galling to be accused of not doing things, as a basis for separation, which my wife had always insisted she was going to take care of. And she always did. I was tossed out because my mother-in-law was upset because I had asked her to see my son, whom I had not seen all that day.

Thank you for your time.

That's another thing you're going to have to get used to. You won't see your son every day.

If you have an amicable relationship, you may be able to talk with him daily, but expecting to see him every day is not very reasonable in most cases.

 

[Red Bull]

That's another thing you're going to have to get used to. You won't see your son every day.

If you have an amicable relationship, you may be able to talk with him daily, but expecting to see him every day is not very reasonable in most cases.

No. The comment was in regards to the immediate, flashpoint reason why we separated, why I was asked to leave by my wife. I was living there at the time my mother-in-law became upset because i wished to see him.

But thank you. Part of my angst and why I have been all over the place on this board is that I don't what to do, in what direction to be turning. But this board has helped out a bit.

 

[LdiJ]

No. The comment was in regards to the immediate, flashpoint reason why we separated, why I was asked to leave by my wife. I was living there at the time my mother-in-law became upset because i wished to see him.

I am sorry but that makes no sense. If you were living in the same house then of course you were seeing your son. So how could your mother in law be upset because you wished to see him? I can think of a few examples, none of which would be flattering to you.

 

[Red Bull]

I am sorry but that makes no sense. If you were living in the same house then of course you were seeing your son. So how could your mother in law be upset because you wished to see him? I can think of a few examples, none of which would be flattering to you.

It is an apartment building. My sister in law lives in the same building, on a lower floor.
My wife, son and mother in law had been out all day, for about 8 hours. When they returned, they went directly to my sister in law's apartment. My wife came up to say she was running out again with her brother in law and that her sister and mother would be downstairs. But, my mother in law would be coming up in a few minutes with our son. I said okay. Two hours later... nothing. So I decided to go downstairs. My mother in law let me in the apartment and she was alone (apparently sister in law went out as well). My son was in his stroller, asleep, and she was rocking him. I offerred to rock him or to take him upstairs to bed. She said no and that her directions from her daughter was to keep him in the apartment until she returned. She got on the phone to my wife, my wife called me an "a--" and said to leave him there and she would be back shortly. I said okay, handed the phone back to my mother in law, and went back to the upstairs apartment.
My wife did return shortly, and apparently my mother in law was crying about the whole situation and was very upset. Thereupon I was asked by my wife to leave as it was after all my MIL apartment and she was very upset.
At that point, my wife also agreed to see marriage counseling, something she had been resistant to until then.

It probably still makes no sense from your end as to why she would react this way. Well, she is a lady who has seen my son everyday of his life, and who would get upset if me and my wife spent too much time with our son away from from her (such as visiting my parents. She argued with her daughter that she was being "brainwashed" by my parents. Thereafter, my wife began developing issues in going to see my parents, people whom she had always said she enjoyed visiting). But that is just one example.

Its these kind of things as to why I am not entirely convinced that things are not entirely as amicable as they appear.

But what are the unflattering examples you can think of?