NC - Pre-emption advice desired

[PharmaCynic]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina

Hello, and this is my First post ever, I would love some input.

First, I am not now divorcing (that I know of) and have never been divorced. I don't believe that I would ever personally file for divorce, however I am diagnosing myself with an "every-marriage" at this point. I would not file because, like most gender roles, I invited my wife into my life and have no real expectations of her (aside from fidelity, which has been hit or miss historically on both our sides), and she of course has millions of expectations which I often fail to meet and am required to "make her happy", if such a thing can be done. I have a million hobbies and am pretty much always satisfied. She's on anti-depressants since I've known her and drinks daily. She is a decent mother though and I have no huge gripes except her fickleness.

Now, we've been together since high school, about 17 years, and have been married for 11 years and now have 3 kids. We have separated before, though not really legally, and not all during our marriage.

Financially, it has been feast or famine, without the feasts... and usually have been a couple paychecks from disaster at any given point, but have generally been fine. We are renters and have no real assets worth bickering about.

Now here's the thing: Let's say a year ago I graduated with a very specific professional degree that pays an aweful lot of money and bought a really nice house and two really nice cars and developed some savings. NOW she files for divorce! But let's also say that I jump into a time machine to 3 years ago with this knowledge and come to this board to seek advice as to how to prepare myself from now until then to make sure I don't get completely screwed and worked absurdly hard just to lose half of everything from that point forward.

That's where I am now. We are both full time students, I am 2 years from graduating (already finished 6), and she is about a year from graduation to be a teacher. We are both accruing substantial loans, and in my case will be upwards of 200k. She has in NO WAY put me through school, we both work and are both great parents.

So starting now, what is the BEST advice if you could somehow know in advance what will happen, including what state I should be living in, how to invest, how maybe NOT to buy anything for a long time etc...

Is there a Post-nup that can be done? I would normally pay for the home mortgage and utilities and let her use her entire income for just her car payment and anything else she'd want to do with her income, but if I was going to lose half anyway, should I start right away having her pay towards the mortgage etc...? Also I would want the kids as badly as she would. Isn't there ANY way to state that whoever can best financially (assuming emotional equity) provide for the kids should get custody, and whoever is willing to forgo payment transfers from the other for the sake of simplicity should get extra consideration for custody?

I know I should speak to an attorney probably, but this is nothing serious now and I'd love some insight now.


Thanks everyone!!

[Shay-Pari'e]

[quote=PharmaCynic;1671373]What is the name of your state? North Carolina

Hello, and this is my First post ever, I would love some input.

First, I am not now divorcing (that I know of) and have never been divorced. I don't believe that I would ever personally file for divorce, however I am diagnosing myself with an "every-marriage" at this point. I would not file because, like most gender roles, I invited my wife into my life and have no real expectations of her (aside from fidelity, which has been hit or miss historically on both our sides), and she of course has millions of expectations which I often fail to meet and am required to "make her happy", if such a thing can be done. I have a million hobbies and am pretty much always satisfied. She's on anti-depressants since I've known her and drinks daily. She is a decent mother though and I have no huge gripes except her fickleness.

Now, we've been together since high school, about 17 years, and have been married for 11 years and now have 3 kids. We have separated before, though not really legally, and not all during our marriage.

Financially, it has been feast or famine, without the feasts... and usually have been a couple paychecks from disaster at any given point, but have generally been fine. We are renters and have no real assets worth bickering about.

Now here's the thing: Let's say a year ago I graduated with a very specific professional degree that pays an aweful lot of money and bought a really nice house and two really nice cars and developed some savings. You just stated you are a renter, and I for one do not do *What If's* when there is no *What If*.
NOW she files for divorce! But let's also say that I jump into a time machine to 3 years ago with this knowledge and come to this board to seek advice as to how to prepare myself from now until then to make sure I don't get completely screwed and worked absurdly hard just to lose half of everything from that point forward. Now you are just getting strange.
That's where I am now. We are both full time students, I am 2 years from graduating (already finished 6), and she is about a year from graduation to be a teacher. We are both accruing substantial loans, and in my case will be upwards of 200k. She has in NO WAY put me through school, we both work and are both great parents.

So starting now, what is the BEST advice if you could somehow know in advance what will happen, including what state I should be living in, how to invest, how maybe NOT to buy anything for a long time etc... Including what state you should live in , and how to invest?

Is there a Post-nup that can be done?No, you are married. I would normally pay for the home mortgage and utilities and let her use her entire income for just her car payment and anything else she'd want to do with her income, but if I was going to lose half anyway, should I start right away having her pay towards the mortgage etc...? What freaking mortgage? You don't have one, and the forum crystal ball is not in my hands.Also I would want the kids as badly as she would. Isn't there ANY way to state that whoever can best financially (assuming emotional equity) provide for the kids should get custody, and whoever is willing to forgo payment transfers from the other for the sake of simplicity should get extra consideration for custody?

I know I should speak to an attorney probably, but this is nothing serious now and I'd love some insight now. You need a therapist first, sorry to sound harsh, but you really do.

Thanks everyone!!

[PharmaCynic]

LOL... ok, I'll look into that.

But in the event I turn out to be irreparable and still choose to make some wise decisions in advance, I'd appreciate other opinions.

Life hands you enough "you should have thought of that when..." situations. I'd like this to not be one of them, and if it's never an issue then great.

There WILL in fact be a mortgage, likely a hefty and valuable one. I refer to a "Post-nup" correctly which is a verifiable legal tool that is compromised due to lessened leverage. And some states are better than others for more "walk away" type divorces, such as in NV.

I still believe my questions are valid... but yes I'm always perceived as strange to much of the public when divulging the full scope of my conceptualization and forsight of the world around me. It has generally served me well.

Many here have much more pressing and depressing scenarios happening right now. I don't want to detract from them and their pleas. I'd like to not be one of them to the best of my preparation. There are many tax shelters, just wondering if there are any divorce shelters to minimize the fallout.

[CJane]

There is no way to preemptively set custody, and in a custody battle, the more financially stable parent is not given more sway than the struggling parent.

As far as all of the rest... you need to google NC statutes as they relate to spousal support, marital property, child custody, child support, etc. Speak with an attorney, and speak with a tax professional. None of us can really predict what will happen in a few years to YOU specifically.

[Shay-Pari'e]

When you decide to file for divorce, seek out a good attorney. No one here can answer your questions as posted.

[Shay-Pari'e]

[quote=CJane;1671401]There is no way to preemptively set custody, and in a custody battle, the more financially stable parent is not given more sway than the struggling parent.

As far as all of the rest... you need to google NC statutes as they relate to spousal support, marital property, child custody, child support, etc. Speak with an attorney, and speak with a tax professional. None of us can really predict what will happen in a few years to YOU specifically.

Get out of my head!LOL.

[PharmaCynic]

Ok thank you for that.

I wonder though, why under the current system does it make sense to place the children with a struggling provider that makes payment transfers necessary to make it possible for them, when the simpler solution would be to place them in the comfort and security of the one with a sufficient enough income to allow the other parent freedom from the extra expenses? Assuming neither parent disputes the other's parenting ability?

I'll also rephrase one of my other questions:

Couple "A" divorces and the home has X equity. One party never made a payment towards the mortgage even being gainfully employed. Is the Equity still split in half?

Couple "B" divorces and the home has X equity. Both parties paid on the mortgage even though one party's income was less. Is the equity split in half?

If the answer to both is YES, then that is the type of answer that would be helpful in helping to prepare now, since I would just insist she pay her share all throughout.

I'm not looking to do anything illegal or off the books, I just know kindness is not rewarded and don't want to feel completely taken advantage of if a tactical divorce is in the works that is waiting for my graduation... after all, it would be shrewd on her part.

Thanks!

[Shay-Pari'e]

Just get divorced already!This has gotten way to strange for me to respond to again.

[PharmaCynic]

YES! Divorce NOW while I have nothing!

Thank you so much for your excellent advice! It makes perfect sense.

Let you know how it went.

[CJane]

Originally Posted by PharmaCynic

Ok thank you for that.

I wonder though, why under the current system does it make sense to place the children with a struggling provider that makes payment transfers necessary to make it possible for them, when the simpler solution would be to place them in the comfort and security of the one with a sufficient enough income to allow the other parent freedom from the extra expenses? Assuming neither parent disputes the other's parenting ability?

Because there is more to deciding custody than financial security. One parent is not going to be 'punished' for making less money.

Who is the primary caregiver for the children? Who takes them to Dr appointments? Who attends/schedules parent teacher conferences? Who provides for their care when home from school? In the summer? Who takes them to sports practices? Dance class? Etc?

Why should the parent who makes more, but possibly works a LOT more hours be given more of a shot at custody than the parent who makes less but possibly spends more time actually parenting?

You need to look up 'best interests of the children'.

I'll also rephrase one of my other questions:

Couple "A" divorces and the home has X equity. One party never made a payment towards the mortgage even being gainfully employed. Is the Equity still split in half?

Couple "B" divorces and the home has X equity. Both parties paid on the mortgage even though one party's income was less. Is the equity split in half?

If the answer to both is YES, then that is the type of answer that would be helpful in helping to prepare now, since I would just insist she pay her share all throughout.

It's not something we can answer now. It's not a situation that lends itself to hypotheticals. There's far too much that figures in to deciding equity splits, including marital debt, other assets, etc. The person who makes less money is not punished here either.

I'm not looking to do anything illegal or off the books, I just know kindness is not rewarded and don't want to feel completely taken advantage of if a tactical divorce is in the works that is waiting for my graduation... after all, it would be shrewd on her part.

Honestly, if you're so sure your wife is just itching to divorce you, you SHOULD walk away now. Certainly less to worry about. Why would you want to be looking over your shoulder for the process server all the time?

[PharmaCynic]

RE: Childcare... we're both very involved parents, both go to school full time, and both work opposite schedules. Whoever is available at the time takes care of it.

RE: money... it's my contention that the one who makes less money could not possibly be "punished"... they've always made less. Also, there's no issue of poverty line or anything like that. We each would make enough to support a household.

No, I'm not so sure she's itching, and like I said I'm in it for the long haul. But we had an episode in January (her fault, at least that time) in which I decided to grin and bear it, but we're so prone to 3 or 4 year cycles and between the kids interests and the financial difficulty of actually splitting up we never have. Later, there may not be the latter impediment.

Why now this comes up is my boss separated in January and it's really unraveling him emotionally and financially. She worked fanciful jobs here and there but mostly unemployed, then left him, and he's really getting it bad. And he was a professional before they met and she did not come from priveledge. I really don't want to be that guy. He has a million and one things he "shoulda" done here and there. I really don't know if any of it makes any difference. I could see if he wanted to abandon her or did something wrong, but the way its going down makes no intuitive sense as to be utterly unbelievable as a matter of jurisprudence.

[almost done]

There is one thing that you can be sure of


...if you continue to live your life planning for your divorce in the future, inevitably it will become the present faster than you realize.

You cannot prepare yourself for what ifs in advance,

[PharmaCynic]

Prudent wisdom, I realize. I'm versed in the self-fulfilled prophecy.

But, I see dark clouds... I"m not going to dance, but I'd like to take an umbrella with me.

I see women post "I don't know why he was surprised".

They're right, we're not. I may not have Dr. Phil's listening prowess, but I don't need a compass to know which way the wind shines.

[Shay-Pari'e]

I say Troll.

[PharmaCynic]

Trolls have laughable grammar and lackluster plots that are beyond disbelief.

Me, I'm just a planner. insurance, stocks, education investments, mapquest printouts, you name it. There's always a best way to go about things, even if the subject is touchy.

Frankly I'm disturbed that so few people contemplate and posture themselves well in advance of what is currently a 60% likelihood in America. And I'm even more astonished that attorneys wouldn't love to have a client who has taken steps to make their job much easier at go-time by taking their advice.

The law does not "punish" someone who makes less. AHHH.. but SOMEONE IS going to be punished! And the reasons will ultimately be innefficient and counter intuitive. I am not a microcosm of socialism and do not intend to be.