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QDRO profit/loss

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haraclub

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

Our MSA states that my ex is to receive 50% of my 403b. There is no valuation date in the document, nor does it address whether the value will includes any gains/losses incurred while we wait for the QDRO to be executed. It has been over a year and my ex has done nothing to start the process. She says she cannot afford to pay her attorney, and, this having been an extremely ugly divorce that forced me into bankruptcy, I will not give her a dime to help. (Everything I have read says that her side is responsible for having the order executed, and she doesn't disput that.) The issue is, I need to change the allocations in my account to be much more aggressive in order to try and make up for the loss in giving her half. The plan administrator advises against making these changes until the money has been transferred, as any losses would affect her half and she might demand the full dollar amount from the day of the divorce. I have no issue with giving her that dollar amount, but I will not share in any gains if she does not agree to also share in any losses. Because the QDRO does not address this either way I feel a bit stuck. I've read that these things can drag out for years, and I don't feel it is fair that I cannot move on because she won't take care of her part. Can I have her sign an agreement stating that she waives her right to any gains/losses from the date of the divorce? If she signs this, can the attorney who eventually completes the QDRO just ignore it and say that it is not in the decree and so whatever she signed is meaningless? I have searched and searched, but I cannot find anything that says whether Illinois has a default position on this topic if it is not addressed in the MSA.

And before anybody says I should just pay her attorney to do the QDRO: No. I have my reasons, and it is not an option. I just need advice as to whether any document she signs will hold up in the future.

Sorry for the length of the post. I'm just trying to get it all in. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 


Ohiogal

Queen Bee
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

Our MSA states that my ex is to receive 50% of my 403b. There is no valuation date in the document, nor does it address whether the value will includes any gains/losses incurred while we wait for the QDRO to be executed. It has been over a year and my ex has done nothing to start the process. She says she cannot afford to pay her attorney, and, this having been an extremely ugly divorce that forced me into bankruptcy, I will not give her a dime to help. (Everything I have read says that her side is responsible for having the order executed, and she doesn't disput that.) The issue is, I need to change the allocations in my account to be much more aggressive in order to try and make up for the loss in giving her half. The plan administrator advises against making these changes until the money has been transferred, as any losses would affect her half and she might demand the full dollar amount from the day of the divorce. I have no issue with giving her that dollar amount, but I will not share in any gains if she does not agree to also share in any losses. Because the QDRO does not address this either way I feel a bit stuck. I've read that these things can drag out for years, and I don't feel it is fair that I cannot move on because she won't take care of her part. Can I have her sign an agreement stating that she waives her right to any gains/losses from the date of the divorce? If she signs this, can the attorney who eventually completes the QDRO just ignore it and say that it is not in the decree and so whatever she signed is meaningless? I have searched and searched, but I cannot find anything that says whether Illinois has a default position on this topic if it is not addressed in the MSA.

And before anybody says I should just pay her attorney to do the QDRO: No. I have my reasons, and it is not an option. I just need advice as to whether any document she signs will hold up in the future.

Sorry for the length of the post. I'm just trying to get it all in. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
The MSA is what matters quite frankly. You seem to want things your way and that is all. So dig in and wait until she gets around to it.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Yes, but the MSA does not address the issue one way or the other. That is my point.
Therefore she has time to do so. If you want to hurry it up take her back to court and spend that money. Or you can spend the money on the QDRO and have her pay you back. You have options. Not my fault you don't like those options.
 

Bali Hai

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

Our MSA states that my ex is to receive 50% of my 403b. There is no valuation date in the document, nor does it address whether the value will includes any gains/losses incurred while we wait for the QDRO to be executed. It has been over a year and my ex has done nothing to start the process. She says she cannot afford to pay her attorney, and, this having been an extremely ugly divorce that forced me into bankruptcy, I will not give her a dime to help. (Everything I have read says that her side is responsible for having the order executed, and she doesn't disput that.) The issue is, I need to change the allocations in my account to be much more aggressive in order to try and make up for the loss in giving her half. The plan administrator advises against making these changes until the money has been transferred, as any losses would affect her half and she might demand the full dollar amount from the day of the divorce. I have no issue with giving her that dollar amount, but I will not share in any gains if she does not agree to also share in any losses. Because the QDRO does not address this either way I feel a bit stuck. I've read that these things can drag out for years, and I don't feel it is fair that I cannot move on because she won't take care of her part. Can I have her sign an agreement stating that she waives her right to any gains/losses from the date of the divorce? If she signs this, can the attorney who eventually completes the QDRO just ignore it and say that it is not in the decree and so whatever she signed is meaningless? I have searched and searched, but I cannot find anything that says whether Illinois has a default position on this topic if it is not addressed in the MSA.

And before anybody says I should just pay her attorney to do the QDRO: No. I have my reasons, and it is not an option. I just need advice as to whether any document she signs will hold up in the future.

Sorry for the length of the post. I'm just trying to get it all in. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
She gets 50% of the account as of the divorce date plus earnings/losses. She does NOT get any contributions made post divorce.

In my case it was spelled out very specifically on what date and how many shares. Ex screwed around for two years and her and J. Slick lawyer wanted half the account value when the QDRO was executed. She got what was in the decree. Watch your back.

What you could do is aggressively invest your portion of the 403b.
 

haraclub

Junior Member
Therefore she has time to do so. If you want to hurry it up take her back to court and spend that money. Or you can spend the money on the QDRO and have her pay you back. You have options. Not my fault you don't like those options.
The MSA does not say whether the profit/loss is to be included in the final payout. I'm not sure what 'she has time to do so' refers to.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
The MSA does not say whether the profit/loss is to be included in the final payout. I'm not sure what 'she has time to do so' refers to.
She has time to do the QDRO is what that means. Normally a reasonable amount of time. What is reasonable is dependent upon many factors.
 

haraclub

Junior Member
She gets 50% of the account as of the divorce date plus earnings/losses. She does NOT get any contributions made post divorce.

In my case it was spelled out very specifically on what date and how many shares. Ex screwed around for two years and her and J. Slick lawyer wanted half the account value when the QDRO was executed. She got what was in the decree. Watch your back.

What you could do is aggressively invest your portion of the 403b.
If she tries to get any post-divorce contributions I would have to end up in court. Hopefully her lawyer won't even try that. Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't realize I could divide the 403b that way. Do you mean I can just say that XX dollars be kept in the current investments? If that's the case then I don't have to worry about any of it. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
If she tries to get any post-divorce contributions I would have to end up in court. Hopefully her lawyer won't even try that. Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't realize I could divide the 403b that way. Do you mean I can just say that XX dollars be kept in the current investments? If that's the case then I don't have to worry about any of it. Thanks for the suggestion!
Bali is probably not the correct person to listen to in this scenario...you should consult your attorney.
 

Bali Hai

Senior Member
If she tries to get any post-divorce contributions I would have to end up in court. Hopefully her lawyer won't even try that. Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't realize I could divide the 403b that way. Do you mean I can just say that XX dollars be kept in the current investments? If that's the case then I don't have to worry about any of it. Thanks for the suggestion!
It depends on how your plan is set up. These days most plans are self directed and have a variety of investment vehicles. Check it out.
 

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