Abuse not love or discipline

[Ohiogal]

And -if/when- the government proves that allegation, there will be some form of remedial action to change Peterson's perception of accept punishment.

DC

Get into the field. I HIGHLY recommend you become a GAL. It is NOT just when the government proves the allegation. The football team has a RIGHT to suspend this abuser. And yes, that is what he is. Under the law. Will it get there? I can't say. But the law in many states provides that if you draw blood/cause bruises/welts, you are abusive.

Based on the photos, he is.

 

[TigerD]

Get into the field. I HIGHLY recommend you become a GAL. It is NOT just when the government proves the allegation. The football team has a RIGHT to suspend this abuser. And yes, that is what he is. Under the law. Will it get there? I can't say. But the law in many states provides that if you draw blood/cause bruises/welts, you are abusive.

Based on the photos, he is.

I am most likely going to either accept a public defender position or open a DWI practice. I'm not really interested in getting into collections law.

I have no desire to be a GAL. I'm not the right person for that kind of work. Don't misunderstand, I'm very glad that there are people like you doing the job - it just isn't for me.

The problem with pillorying the man on the public square is that everybody is discussing something different. If Peterson wasn't a public figure, his livelihood would, most likely, not be at risk at this point in the process. Nor would he be getting death threats. Caring for the kid is great. It is important that someone step up and care for the child in the situation. However, Peterson is presumed innocent. We can discuss the differing standards between removing the child (clear and convincing) and reaching a finding of guilt (beyond reasonable doubt), but it will not change the fact that most people have made up their minds and Paterson has already been convicted by the mob.

Those photos are difficult. But there isn't one poster on this site that can swear those are of Peterson's kid, from this incident, and are not doctored in any way. We just don't have that information. And that is the essence of every one of my posts on this subject - we don't know. Let the system work. It appears to be trying to.

DC

 

[davew128]

Tell that to all the men (myself included) who have spent the night in jail and ponied up the non-refundable $150 10% bond (for first-timers) because they pushed their babymama away or grabbed their wife's wrist when she was attacking them. It's real. If you don't believe that, you're in denial. The law is written quite clearly and is enforced exactly as written, all in an attempt to reduce domestic violence.

You do realize you're speaking to someone who was involved with a mentally ill woman who became known to local police for making false domestic violence allegations (and not all against me either)? In California (the only state I'm concerned with for obvious reasons) there is a very clear self defense rule and it specifically applies to battery as well as assault.

What Rice did was an overreaction, if indeed he was reacting to being attacked (which I don't necessarily believe). He should be charged. However, if he'd simply pushed her aside, in my state at least, he still probably would have been charged.

He WAS charged. Aggravated assault. She was charged with battery too, so clearly the police on the scene believed he was attacked even if you don't.

 

[Ohiogal]

I am most likely going to either accept a public defender position or open a DWI practice. I'm not really interested in getting into collections law.

I have no desire to be a GAL. I'm not the right person for that kind of work. Don't misunderstand, I'm very glad that there are people like you doing the job - it just isn't for me.

The problem with pillorying the man on the public square is that everybody is discussing something different. If Peterson wasn't a public figure, his livelihood would, most likely, not be at risk at this point in the process. Nor would he be getting death threats. Caring for the kid is great. It is important that someone step up and care for the child in the situation. However, Peterson is presumed innocent. We can discuss the differing standards between removing the child (clear and convincing) and reaching a finding of guilt (beyond reasonable doubt), but it will not change the fact that most people have made up their minds and Paterson has already been convicted by the mob.

Those photos are difficult. But there isn't one poster on this site that can swear those are of Peterson's kid, from this incident, and are not doctored in any way. We just don't have that information. And that is the essence of every one of my posts on this subject - we don't know. Let the system work. It appears to be trying to.

DC

I disagree: His livelihood WOULD be at risk. In fact, many parents in juvenile court end up losing their jobs due to the allegations/complaints/hearings. It happens all the time. The difference is -- the parents are most likely indigent/poor and that is why they are in the system. When they lose their job, they aren't suspended with $11.25 million in pay. Peterson is extremely LUCKY that he is a millionaire. The fact that he is so wealthy/talented is most likely WHY he hasn't ended up in the system prior to this. Wealth protects a lot.

As for the photos -- the MOTHER has stated they are of her child with Peterson and she wants them out of the public view.

 

[Ladyback1]

I got nothing. I say that from the perspective of someone who has held a child who is crying and upset and asking ME why their FATHER would whip them to the point of scars and bleeding. I was the child's GAL. That child (the first child I was GAL for) crawled into my lap and cried, wanting to know why their daddy whipped them so badly. The child was crying. The child was upset. The child had bruises. The child had scabs. I had a law degree and training.




NOTHING trains you for that. That child's tears, a decade later, haunt me. That parent lost custody, had to take parenting classes, had to go through anger management and counseling, had to jump through hoops.

The fact that Adrian Peterson was (until this morning) playing football -- well he is now staying home and doing nothing for more than $11 million a year. I don't feel sympathy for him. For his four year old, I weep. And yeah, I am heartless. I am a witch (try *itch but I can't type that though I have been accused more than once). I am ticked off at this.

And the reason the Vikings reversed yet again? My guess is Castrol, Radisson, Anheuser-Busch -- who are NOT content and spend hundreds of millions -- and ****. Pathetic.

It's simple. If you draw blood, cause bruises/welts -- it is NOT discipline. It is ABUSE.

I took a job w/ a non profit that provides family support. We supervise visitations, parent teaching, intervention, etc.
And as much as it breaks my heart to see a child hurt (in any shape, form or fashion), I also know that sometimes--the abusive parent does NOT know any better, or is completely overwhelmed w/ life and can't handle raising children. I deal with these parents daily. I see how much they love their children. And I see how much the children love the parent that abused them!

I'm not arguing that it isn't abuse. And sometimes, it is all I can do not to be angry with the abusive parents. BUT...I also know that if at least the minimal effort isn't given to changing these parents' perspective? The cycle of abuse will continue. If parent teaching, intervention, stress and anger management skills aren't taught (and LEARNED) then the parents will continue. And they will continue to have children--until they kill one or get to raise one.

Make sure the children are safe is the first order. But we, as a society, need to figure out and work toward preventing abuse. And IMHO, the first step to doing that is teaching, mentoring, supporting the families that are at risk for this sort of incident.

 

[tranquility]

For a statistical overview of the problem:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/cm2012.pdf

 

[CdwJava]

You do realize you're speaking to someone who was involved with a mentally ill woman who became known to local police for making false domestic violence allegations (and not all against me either)? In California (the only state I'm concerned with for obvious reasons) there is a very clear self defense rule and it specifically applies to battery as well as assault.

He WAS charged. Aggravated assault. She was charged with battery too, so clearly the police on the scene believed he was attacked even if you don't.

Even in CA, "self defense" requires specific elements be met AND the actions taken must still be reasonable. I do not see that Rice's actions were objectively reasonable. They were likely retaliatory which is NOT an act of self defense, but the lashing out in anger. It will be interesting to see if his attorneys try and frame it as an act of self defense and if his wife is willing to leap onto that grenade in order to try and save the largesse that her husband stands to lose if he is ousted from football.

The fact that the police charged him indicates to me that they are not seeing this as an act of self defense, either. Unless the prosecutor drops the charges against him, I think the self-defense ploy is pretty much off the table unless he is allowed to present this argument to the jury. If I had to guess, however, I'd say they'll plead this out rather than go to a jury ... that video will likely hang him.

 

[davew128]

The fact that the police charged him indicates to me that they are not seeing this as an act of self defense, either. Unless the prosecutor drops the charges against him, I think the self-defense ploy is pretty much off the table unless he is allowed to present this argument to the jury. If I had to guess, however, I'd say they'll plead this out rather than go to a jury ... that video will likely hang him.

Umm, this case was closed in the NJ courts back in May or so...

 

[tranquility]

Umm, this case was closed in the NJ courts back in May or so...

http://www.njlawjournal.com/id=1202670332711/Lawyers-Fear-Ray-Rice-Case-Could-Stymie-Prosecutorial-Discretion?mcode=1202670332711&slreturn=20140817175835

Because of the pervasive nature of domestic violence, mass incarceration of abusers is impractical, Robbins said.
“It’s not like [Rice] is going to receive the kind of counseling in jail that’s going to stop him. What it does is make society feel better,” Robbins said.

 

[CdwJava]

Umm, this case was closed in the NJ courts back in May or so...

Okay ... I hadn't heard what the dispo was. I certainly did not hear anyone alleging self defense.

Anger management and probation are common out here, and in many places - apparently including NJ - even diversion is possible for first offenders. I don't disagree with the punishment, I just don't see that what happened meets the definition of "self defense" and since it does not appear to have been raised, I'd guess it was a non issue.

 

[tranquility]

Okay ... I hadn't heard what the dispo was. I certainly did not hear anyone alleging self defense.

No. It was under an alternate disposition program he qualified for.

Because of the edit, edit:
Yes, that's what happened.