DOPL & CCW after DV

[Gulander]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

Before I begin, let me state for the record that I believe that domestic partner violence and crime against women is something that I find to be reprehensible and deplorable. I have no prior record and am currently trying to finish requirements for a BSN program (nursing) after having obtained a BS in Clinical Psychology. In short, I am an empathetic person who cares a great deal about others and it is my dream to make a life out of it.

I was advised to take a plea in abeyance (by legal counsel) after being arrested and charged with both DV Criminal Mischief and DV Simple Assault.

The particulars of my case [I will inculde these as they may apply to certain interpretations of Lautenberg and Hessler(?) being only against children or sexual partners] are that I was in a heated argument with my brother (he was stoned at the time) and he flipped out. I never layed a hand on him throughout the course of the incident, but I did kick down a door when I thought he was going for a gun (hence the criminal mischief) he decided to call the police on me, throw a wrench at me (I suffered a tuft fracture) and threaten me with a skrewdriver (he's a stagehand, hence the plethora of unusual weapons) before I ran out of the house and onto the curb, feeling self-assured that the police would arrest him after hearing my side of the story and I would be in the clear.

My lawyer told me; I kicked in a door, I am guily of that and if convicted could end up with a jail sentence and generally be much worse off. The prosecutor wanted me to plead in abeyance to the assault and not the criminal mischief. So, I did.

I am currently in the last stretch of my plea in abeyance period with a DV Simple Assault charge in Utah (a class B misdemeanor). I have been working with legal counsel throughout this process, but even my lawyer seems to be befuddled about a number of my questions regarding my life after this charge, namely if this charge (even if expunged) will hurt my chances of becoming a nurse or if I will ever be able to own a firearm under Lautenberg.

The main concern I am dealing with is looking to apply for a nursing license or anything dealing with children, elderly, or handicapped people with this (even after expungement) being accessible to the Department of Occupational and Professional Licensing and potentially future employers. What should I do? Do I need to explain myself outright everytime I apply for a job? Will this be a significant hinderance to me getting into a good nursing, graduate, doctoral, or post doc program? Basically, will this kill my intended future?

Dealing with the more convoluted and cryptic issue, according to the following article, When Gunzilla (Federal Gun Control Act of 1968) Meets Queen Cong (UtahÕs Domestic Violence Statutes) Your Client Could Get Stepped On (Utah Bar Journal) , it is more or less up to the discretion of the prosecutor whether or not I can legally own a gun due to a subjective and arbitrary open interpretation of whether a DV plea in abeyance is the same thing as a conviction...

My questions are simply...what the hell? How do I approach this?
I know that some interpretations of these restrictive FEDERAL gun laws don't consider what I did to even be DV... so how do I go about fighting for my gun rights?
(I am not a lawyer, hence I have to rely on internet resources and my own attorney who seems to be as confused as myself about the issue.)
Also, I would like to know if there is any way to try and fight for my CCW should I choose to ever have one? I can't even (legally) carry a pocket knife now and waiting tables could technically even get a little sketchy (you want a steak knife, here let me get the manager) as Utah ccw applies to knives as well.

Again, sorry for my longwindedness and melodrama, and thank you very much in advance for your response.

-GH

 

[Ohiogal]

Does your brother own a gun? Has he EVER owned a gun to your knowledge?

 

[Hot Topic]

You kicked down a door because you thought your brother was going for a gun, yet you're determined not to lose your "gun rights?"

If you don't see the irony, then there's something seriously wrong with you. And I notice that you seem more concerned about not having access to a gun should you wish to than you do about your nursing career.

 

[Gulander]

In response to Ohiogal, no...technically HE does not own a gun, but I know that he was holding one of my parent's shotguns for them under his bed at the time of my arrest. I will choose not to go into why he had it there, as it is irrelevant to my questions.

And in response to Hot Topic, no. No I do not recognize any irony or humor in any of this. Perhaps you framed my words in a certain light because of some sort of personal conviction about firearms?

You are aeons off from which issue I value, btw. I may care about being able to own a firearm (hunting and shooting are a big thing for many of my friends) but not nearly as much as the occupational issue (I have already spent countless hours and have accumulated massive student loans in training to become a nurse, all of my eggs are in the healthcare basket)...the reason why there is more stuff posted about the CCW stuff than the DOPL stuff is because 1) there were very few resources I could find on the DOPL stuff so I couldn't refer to specific legal issues as in the gun issue (viz. Laudenberg ammendment) and 2) the DOPL thing may not even BE a legal issue, lastly 3) Upon looking up local DOPL "minutes" I read a report of somebody who had actually hit his wife on two occasions transfering to my state and still being able to get a nursing license, albeit with some provisions, which assuaged some of my fears about the issue, but not all. (Hence, I am fishing for reassurances and some possible legal steps to take to safeguard myself on that matter).

I hold no ill will towards anyone about this incident, including my brother. I think it was an extremely unfortunate and sick thing. Looking back on it, it still seems surreal to me.

And my questions are still left unanswered...

 

[cyjeff]

I was unaware that a CCW permit was necessary for hunting.

 

[Ohiogal]

I was unaware that a CCW permit was necessary for hunting.

A CCW is NOT required to hunt and shoot.

In response to Ohiogal, no...technically HE does not own a gun, but I know that he was holding one of my parent's shotguns for them under his bed at the time of my arrest. I will choose not to go into why he had it there, as it is irrelevant to my questions.

Then if you choose not to explain the situation, you are choosing not to have a possible defense. You have to show that you KNEW he had a gun and that there was justification for your fear that he would use a gun if you even want to prevail that this was NOT a beat down. And that may even be a stretch. It is possible that you could win but the details of the gun (how did you know he had it, why did he have it, and various other things) all matter for a possible defense.

 

[swalsh411]

If you accept a plea on a misdemeanor domestic violence per Lautenberg you can't possess a gun period end of story. I am unaware of a single case where a person had their rights restored in a case such as yours. (and it would have made the rounds on gun forums which I regularly visit).

The only thing I would add is that the definition of domestic violence with Lautenberg is more narrow than in many if not most states. The Lautenberg definition is:

"has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim."

Have you discussed that particular with your attorney?

 

[Gulander]

Notice of Dismissal

I just barely recieved a dismissal of my charges after my plea in abeyance. I had a motion sent to the court via my lawyer so I could obtain an expungement and start looking for better work, as my student days are quickly reaching an end.

After reviewing DOPL's application process (see pg. 15)
http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/forms/applications/012_RN_LPN.pdf
My expungement (I'm looking on trekking over to BCI this week and talking to my counsel about the FBI stipulation) means that I won't have to disclose anything about my charges when applying for a license. This is a tremendous burden off of my back, as I know that all of my hard work and studying will amount to something and my future is intact.

As for the Gun Ownership...(I have recieved an early DISMISSAL, but I originally entered a PLEA IN ABEYANCE) I am getting mixed answers from different sources: the JUDGE at my hearing told me I could not own weapons or ammunition during my PROBATION period, but that this was not permenant unless I was CONVICTED (i.e. if I screwed up while on probation). This was one of my reasons for doing the plea in abeyance, as it seemed less invasive than a full on trail (remember I am a student and have limited time) and I was led to believe it would not result in any suspensions or revocations of my rights so long as I didn't get into any further trouble.

The UT bar association states that a plea in abeyance may or may not be interpreted as a conviction, but it shouldn't. A DISMISSAL, I am led to understand, is NEVER considered a conviction, and an expungement should clear my records.

This should restore my right to own a firearm, or do I require further litigation to try and restore these rights. (I have heard of people going to court to have their firearms rights restored).

I want a full life with full rights. I will do what it takes to have that, no matter how many times I have to appeal or struggle. I'd imagine that anyone here would have the same convictions (no pun intended).

In any case...GREAT news about Nursing...unsure about hunting {I've never been, and my girlfriend and her family like to go, as well as many of my friends, I've always wanted to} (or god forbid if I decide to try for the armed services, which may offer good programs if I decide to switch to P.A. [physicians assistant].)

 

[swalsh411]

If the judge told you not to have guns until your probation is up then I would do what he said unless you receive assurance from your attorney that it's OK. The potential penalties for a disqualified person possessing a firearm are very stiff. When is your probation up?

 

[Artemis_ofthe_Hunt]

If the judge told you not to have guns until your probation is up then I would do what he said unless you receive assurance from your attorney that it's OK. The potential penalties for a disqualified person possessing a firearm are very stiff. When is your probation up?

I wouldn't even go with what anyone just SAID in court. Make sure its in the order before you go with someones interpretation of the order. If the attorney put into your order "may not own or posess firearms during the probationary period" then there is no room for interpretation. If the wording is more ambiguious, then clarification and a possible modification for clarity within the order may be the right direction to take.

 

[Gulander]

I wouldn't even go with what anyone just SAID in court. Make sure its in the order before you go with someones interpretation of the order. If the attorney put into your order "may not own or posess firearms during the probationary period" then there is no room for interpretation. If the wording is more ambiguious, then clarification and a possible modification for clarity within the order may be the right direction to take.

On the Minute Entry/Order form that I recieved it reitterates what I heard the judge say.
It has the "Do not possess any GUNS/WEAPONS/AMMO" box checked and then handwritten by in the "Other" box below it says: "MAY become perminent under Utah, Federal Law IF convicted."

Since I recieved the dismissal...the probationary period is done. Now...if I were to buy a gun under Laudenberg would I be comitting a felony? Do I need to go to further measures to restore my gun rights?