Are Hidden Cameras Legal to Protect yourself?

[Foolish1]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

Good morning. I had no idea where to post this but since my reason has to do with domestic violence I’ll put it here. Brief background. I was battered by my ex a few years back and was granted a TPO which has since expired. We share custody of our kids and I am always fearful for my safety when we have to make exchanges. I have been wearing a hidden camera that also records audio every time we make an exchange just to protect myself. I have a lot of video saved up. None of it shows any violence but there are several verbal threats recorded.
Can these be admissible to help me get another TPO or is the hidden camera illegal? My understanding is that as long as it was a public place then it’s OK. Unfortunately, some of the video is from the hallway outside the other party’s apartment. Is that still considered a public place?
Thank you!

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

Good morning. I had no idea where to post this but since my reason has to do with domestic violence I’ll put it here. Brief background. I was battered by my ex a few years back and was granted a TPO which has since expired. We share custody of our kids and I am always fearful for my safety when we have to make exchanges. I have been wearing a hidden camera that also records audio every time we make an exchange just to protect myself. I have a lot of video saved up. None of it shows any violence but there are several verbal threats recorded.
Can these be admissible to help me get another TPO or is the hidden camera illegal? My understanding is that as long as it was a public place then it’s OK. Unfortunately, some of the video is from the hallway outside the other party’s apartment. Is that still considered a public place?
Thank you!

Your understanding is incorrect. Georgia is a one party state for recording audio HOWEVER you need to be a party to the conversation. IF your children and ex are talking, the recordings are illegal. The hallway is NOT a public place. It is a private building. You need to check with an attorney in Georgia to find out what the most up to date caselaw is regarding recording.

 

[Zigner]

Your understanding is incorrect. Georgia is a one party state for recording audio HOWEVER you need to be a party to the conversation. IF your children and ex are talking, the recordings are illegal. The hallway is NOT a public place. It is a private building. You need to check with an attorney in Georgia to find out what the most up to date caselaw is regarding recording.

Seems to me that the common areas of a building (ie: the hallways) would be public and not private, by definition. Can't disagree with the recommendation to consult with an attorney.

 

[nanu156]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

Good morning. I had no idea where to post this but since my reason has to do with domestic violence I’ll put it here. Brief background. I was battered by my ex a few years back and was granted a TPO which has since expired. We share custody of our kids and I am always fearful for my safety when we have to make exchanges. I have been wearing a hidden camera that also records audio every time we make an exchange just to protect myself. I have a lot of video saved up. None of it shows any violence but there are several verbal threats recorded.
Can these be admissible to help me get another TPO or is the hidden camera illegal? My understanding is that as long as it was a public place then it’s OK. Unfortunately, some of the video is from the hallway outside the other party’s apartment. Is that still considered a public place?
Thank you!

IF you are that fearful start making your exchanges in a public place, gas station parking lots near the pumps (if possible in front of a pump) are a GREAT place to get recorded exchanges. The station has cameras, there will be witnesses the police will respond quickly etc.

Is this an attempt to modify custody/parenting time OR is it about your safety. IF it's about safety then you need to STOP going to his home all together. The police can also act as peace keepers for custody exchanges. Contact the local agency to find out what you need to do to facilitate this.

TRO's aren't very good for facilitating positive co-parenting relationships and should only be done after all other options have been exhausted (in my opinion)

Try gas stations. They are open at all hours, and they have video surveillance as well as witnesses I can't really see a downside to making the exchanges SIGNIFICANTLY more public.

 

[justalayman]

O.C.G.A. 16-11-62 (2010)
16-11-62. Eavesdropping, surveillance, or intercepting communication which invades privacy of another; divulging private message


It shall be unlawful for:

(1) Any person in a clandestine manner intentionally to overhear, transmit, or record or attempt to overhear, transmit, or record the private conversation of another which shall originate in any private place;

(2) Any person, through the use of any device, without the consent of all persons observed, to observe, photograph, or record the activities of another which occur in any private place and out of public view; provided, however, that it shall not be unlawful:

(A) To use any device to observe, photograph, or record the activities of persons incarcerated in any jail, correctional institution, or any other facility in which persons who are charged with or who have been convicted of the commission of a crime are incarcerated, provided that such equipment shall not be used while the prisoner is discussing his or her case with his or her attorney;

(B) For an owner or occupier of real property to use for security purposes, crime prevention, or crime detection any device to observe, photograph, or record the activities of persons who are on the property or an approach thereto in areas where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy; or

(C) To use for security purposes, crime prevention, or crime detection any device to observe, photograph, or record the activities of persons who are within the curtilage of the residence of the person using such device. A photograph, videotape, or record made in accordance with this subparagraph, or a copy thereof, may be disclosed by such resident to the district attorney or a law enforcement officer and shall be admissible in a judicial proceeding, without the consent of any person observed, photographed, or recorded;

(3) Any person to go on or about the premises of another or any private place, except as otherwise provided by law, for the purpose of invading the privacy of others by eavesdropping upon their conversations or secretly observing their activities;

(4) Any person intentionally and secretly to intercept by the use of any device, instrument, or apparatus the contents of a message sent by telephone, telegraph, letter, or by any other means of private communication;

(5) Any person to divulge to any unauthorized person or authority the content or substance of any private message intercepted lawfully in the manner provided for in Code Section 16-11-65;

(6) Any person to sell, give, or distribute, without legal authority, to any person or entity any photograph, videotape, or record, or copies thereof, of the activities of another which occur in any private place and out of public view without the consent of all persons observed; or

(7) Any person to commit any other acts of a nature similar to those set out in paragraphs (1) through (6) of this Code section which invade the privacy of another.

I don't see it as a one party state if it is in a private place (I suspect that can be applied to any area a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy).

and then there is the catch all #7.

and I understand that can be charged as a felony.


and believe it or not, I agree with nanu here.

 

[stealth2]

GA is NOT a one-party state.

 

[nanu156]

I don't see it as a one party state if it is in a private place (I suspect that can be applied to any area a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy).

and then there is the catch all #7.

and I understand that can be charged as a felony.


and believe it or not, I agree with nanu here.

OMG did it happen? did we agree.

I btw am reading between the lines here and would be willing to bet that mom is looking to interfere/change/limit dad's parenting time. That the real goal of the TRO is to modify the parenting time arrangement. Possibly seeking supervised visits or another cumbersome requirement for dad to make seeing kid more difficult.

OP, I would like to stress here that the judge on your case we aware of the domestic issues and chose to order parenting time/custody anyway. So additional TRO requests would likely just make more trouble for the OP.

IDK if I was concerned about safety, or outbursts in front of my child (incidentally I am concerned with these very issues, in my own custody situation) I would and do have my exchanges at a gas station. I have had the gas station provide copies of exchanges that went badly on DVD it wasn't too difficult to obtain. In any event our "troubles" have decreased significantly since this change (with the exception of an assault in October, when she brought her boyfriend against court orders to our exchange)

So anyway... OP dump the camera/wire idea and just come up with a SOLUTION to the situation instead of trying to find a way to get dad into trouble find a way to get through the exchanges. If there are additional issues via telephone, then find a way to improve that communication as well. (email works really really well for me)

So yeah.. Just opinion.. but probably valid advice.

 

[stealth2]

OMG did it happen? did we agree.

Probably not, Mork. Layman cited statute - you said nothing regarding the legality of OP's recording.

 

[nanu156]

Probably not, Mork. Layman cited statute - you said nothing regarding the legality of OP's recording.

no he actually used the words I agree with Nanu... but that is totally cool, OG had already addressed the legality of the situation.

I suggested a legal alternative that would provide protection, documentation, and accommodate better co-parenting, I don't know that "statute" needed to be addressed in my posting, as I doubt that there are "state specific statutes" that address the pros and cons of various exchange points.

Do you see "hidden camera" videos helping this poster in what is inevitably a custody/visitation case? Or do you see a judge shaking his head at the poster? She says she is fearful, if she is in fear why isn't she doing something to protect herself? Cameras offer no protection from fists, hidden ones don't even act as to deter violence. Is proving that the threat exists going to help her in some way if he beats the heck out of her? Wouldn't the better solution be to end all private exchanges in lieu of something that is very public and also has the benefit of being on camera? To both deter the threats of violence, the actual violence and provide for a safer environment?

I mean is she trying to prevent domestic battery? Or is she trying to bolster a court case? Which of the two would you suggest tailoring advice to?

 

[stealth2]

no he actually used the words I agree with Nanu...

You're right - I missed that last line while considering the legalities.

As for exchanges? It all depends on what her order says.

 

[Foolish1]

Thanks for the responses but the law is not on my side (yet) unfortunately. The original divorce decree states that I must pick up the kids at his residence. During the time of the TPO, this was changed to the police station. When the TPO expired, I went back to court (with my lawyer) and asked to keep the exchange at a public location and I was DENIED by the judge! My lawyer and I were shocked. My ex refuses to meet anywhere but his apartment. Since then I have been afraid when I go to his home. I stand in the hall several feet back from the door after I knock. Most of the time, the kids just come out but every now and then he will come out first and approach me. Almost every time it is to verbally attack me. The first time he threatened me, I called the police. They came out and basically said there was nothing to do since he denied it and there were no witnesses. Even with his history of violence against me and the TPO I had. After this incident I started wearing the camera. In one very recent exchange he told me he was going to tie me up and beat the sh*t out of me. I recorded that one!
To think that I could be the one charged for the use of the hidden camera is a grave injustice. Also, I have read the law (same as what is posted in this thread) and I’m not sure the complex hallway is considered private. The hidden camera laws are to protect people from being videotaped in their bathrooms and bedrooms. So I think (at least HOPE) most responses to this thread are wrong.

 

[stealth2]

So I think (at least HOPE) most responses to this thread are wrong.

You think and hope wrong.

You can go back to court and ask that exchanges be in a public place. Or... you could bring a friend/family member with you. Easy-peasy.

 

[Silverplum]

Thanks for the responses but the law is not on my side (yet) unfortunately. The original divorce decree states that I must pick up the kids at his residence. During the time of the TPO, this was changed to the police station. When the TPO expired, I went back to court (with my lawyer) and asked to keep the exchange at a public location and I was DENIED by the judge! My lawyer and I were shocked. My ex refuses to meet anywhere but his apartment. Since then I have been afraid when I go to his home. I stand in the hall several feet back from the door after I knock. Most of the time, the kids just come out but every now and then he will come out first and approach me. Almost every time it is to verbally attack me. The first time he threatened me, I called the police. They came out and basically said there was nothing to do since he denied it and there were no witnesses. Even with his history of violence against me and the TPO I had. After this incident I started wearing the camera. In one very recent exchange he told me he was going to tie me up and beat the sh*t out of me. I recorded that one!
To think that I could be the one charged for the use of the hidden camera is a grave injustice. Also, I have read the law (same as what is posted in this thread) and I’m not sure the complex hallway is considered private. The hidden camera laws are to protect people from being videotaped in their bathrooms and bedrooms. So I think (at least HOPE) most responses to this thread are wrong.

Post #2: written by a family law attorney.
Post #5: provides the applicable law.
Post #6: clarifies a major point of the applicable law.

So "believe" or "hope" whatever you wish.

 

[Ohiogal]

GA is NOT a one-party state.

Crap. Should have gone to statute rather than my websites I normally check for this. They must be out-of-date/wrong at this juncture. My apologies. I see JAL's citation. Mea culpa.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks for the responses but the law is not on my side (yet) unfortunately. The original divorce decree states that I must pick up the kids at his residence. During the time of the TPO, this was changed to the police station. When the TPO expired, I went back to court (with my lawyer) and asked to keep the exchange at a public location and I was DENIED by the judge! My lawyer and I were shocked. My ex refuses to meet anywhere but his apartment. Since then I have been afraid when I go to his home. I stand in the hall several feet back from the door after I knock. Most of the time, the kids just come out but every now and then he will come out first and approach me. Almost every time it is to verbally attack me. The first time he threatened me, I called the police. They came out and basically said there was nothing to do since he denied it and there were no witnesses. Even with his history of violence against me and the TPO I had. After this incident I started wearing the camera. In one very recent exchange he told me he was going to tie me up and beat the sh*t out of me. I recorded that one!
To think that I could be the one charged for the use of the hidden camera is a grave injustice. Also, I have read the law (same as what is posted in this thread) and I’m not sure the complex hallway is considered private. The hidden camera laws are to protect people from being videotaped in their bathrooms and bedrooms. So I think (at least HOPE) most responses to this thread are wrong.

The hallway is in a PRIVATE building, correct? It is not an outside hallway? Therefore that is a private area. I would have to agree with JAL that you would be facing a possible felony for these laws. A TPO does NOT automatically translate to a history of violence. It could mean a lot of things -- such as he consented or did not show up at the hearing.