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Was I "abused" by the legal definition?

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purplequill

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am currently filling out a parenting plan prior to filing for divorce. I view myself as exiting an abusive relationship, but I don't know if what occurred meets the *legal* definition of abuse, or if my proof would meet the standard.

FYI, my objective is not to bar my husband seeing his child. He did not abuse her--except that he abused me in front of her. He asked for one day per week overnight unsupervised visitation, and I have consented. My objective is to legally end joint decision-making, thus removing his last opportunity and motive for harassing me.

According to the proposed parenting plan, I must demonstrate that he has "A history of acts of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010(1) or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm." Most of his abuse involved coercion with threats. Even though I was very intimidated, I never thought to myself "this man might put me in the hospital." The one time he hit me in the face, it left no mark. When he attempted to rape me while our daughter slept in the same tent, it was with threats of waking her up so she would have to watch and it would be my fault. Does coercion by threats of violence, screaming and cussing for hours, threats of humiliation, taking away car keys, etc. qualify as "abuse" by law?

If it does qualify as abuse, then I have to prove it. The police were never involved, but I confessed conditions to more and more friends as the abuse grew worse. I also confessed to a counselor after I began having stress-induced panic attacks for which I had to go to the hospital. I have proof of both of these in written communication to friends and pastors, as well as my medical records.

If I cannot prove abuse, there is a lower standard I could use that would limit joint decision making, if I can prove "The abusive use of conflict by the parent which creates the danger of serious damage to the child’s psychological development." Much of the abuse took place in front of our daughter, and as she become older (she is currently 4), she became involved in trying to protect me and calm her father down. Continued fighting between us with most certainly damage her if she continues to see it as her job to protect one parent from the other.
 


RRevak

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am currently filling out a parenting plan prior to filing for divorce. I view myself as exiting an abusive relationship, but I don't know if what occurred meets the *legal* definition of abuse, or if my proof would meet the standard.

FYI, my objective is not to bar my husband seeing his child. He did not abuse her--except that he abused me in front of her. He asked for one day per week overnight unsupervised visitation, and I have consented. My objective is to legally end joint decision-making, thus removing his last opportunity and motive for harassing me.

According to the proposed parenting plan, I must demonstrate that he has "A history of acts of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010(1) or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm." Most of his abuse involved coercion with threats. Even though I was very intimidated, I never thought to myself "this man might put me in the hospital." The one time he hit me in the face, it left no mark. When he attempted to rape me while our daughter slept in the same tent, it was with threats of waking her up so she would have to watch and it would be my fault. Does coercion by threats of violence, screaming and cussing for hours, threats of humiliation, taking away car keys, etc. qualify as "abuse" by law?

If it does qualify as abuse, then I have to prove it. The police were never involved, but I confessed conditions to more and more friends as the abuse grew worse. I also confessed to a counselor after I began having stress-induced panic attacks for which I had to go to the hospital. I have proof of both of these in written communication to friends and pastors, as well as my medical records.

If I cannot prove abuse, there is a lower standard I could use that would limit joint decision making, if I can prove "The abusive use of conflict by the parent which creates the danger of serious damage to the child’s psychological development." Much of the abuse took place in front of our daughter, and as she become older (she is currently 4), she became involved in trying to protect me and calm her father down. Continued fighting between us with most certainly damage her if she continues to see it as her job to protect one parent from the other.
If it wasn't reported to law enforcement then legally speaking it didn't happen.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am currently filling out a parenting plan prior to filing for divorce. I view myself as exiting an abusive relationship, but I don't know if what occurred meets the *legal* definition of abuse, or if my proof would meet the standard.

FYI, my objective is not to bar my husband seeing his child. He did not abuse her--except that he abused me in front of her. He asked for one day per week overnight unsupervised visitation, and I have consented. My objective is to legally end joint decision-making, thus removing his last opportunity and motive for harassing me.

According to the proposed parenting plan, I must demonstrate that he has "A history of acts of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010(1) or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm." Most of his abuse involved coercion with threats. Even though I was very intimidated, I never thought to myself "this man might put me in the hospital." The one time he hit me in the face, it left no mark. When he attempted to rape me while our daughter slept in the same tent, it was with threats of waking her up so she would have to watch and it would be my fault. Does coercion by threats of violence, screaming and cussing for hours, threats of humiliation, taking away car keys, etc. qualify as "abuse" by law?

If it does qualify as abuse, then I have to prove it. The police were never involved, but I confessed conditions to more and more friends as the abuse grew worse. I also confessed to a counselor after I began having stress-induced panic attacks for which I had to go to the hospital. I have proof of both of these in written communication to friends and pastors, as well as my medical records.

If I cannot prove abuse, there is a lower standard I could use that would limit joint decision making, if I can prove "The abusive use of conflict by the parent which creates the danger of serious damage to the child’s psychological development." Much of the abuse took place in front of our daughter, and as she become older (she is currently 4), she became involved in trying to protect me and calm her father down. Continued fighting between us with most certainly damage her if she continues to see it as her job to protect one parent from the other.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but you came here to hear the truth, right?

Your friends are not witnesses. All they "heard" was your side of the story. Letters you wrote are, again, your side of the story. Police reports are not proof of abuse, either, but they go a long way toward gathering the proof you'd need. You chose to not pursue that avenue, and here are the results of that choice.

Lots of people have stress-induced panic attacks: they are not proof of abuse.

You write that you are trying to limit his ability to make decisions about his daughter because of your issues with him. That's not a reason to deny joint decision-making.
 

purplequill

Junior Member
Your friends are not witnesses.
Friends and relatives have witnessed yelling, cussing, intimidation and threats, including his own mother and brothers who are willing to testify on my behalf.

Letters you wrote are, again, your side of the story.
I don't believe my documentation is proof of anything other than that this is not a recent development, but rather something that occurred over time.

You write that you are trying to limit his ability to make decisions about his daughter because of your issues with him. That's not a reason to deny joint decision-making.
Wrong, I am trying to limit his conflict with me. Alternatively, we can have monthly meetings with a mediator for the next 14 years. I'm willing to do that, but I believe it will be harmful to our daughter. He's not doing it because he cares about her, he's doing it because he's still trying to control and punish me.

If none of this works, I'm planning on moving out of state. Don't worry, I'm not "doin' a runner"; it was his idea so that me and his daughter would be less demanding.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
As I know that this is a vast oversimplification, your statement is not actually informative.
It is very informative. It is also tends to be very true. You have "witnesses" but how many unbiased witnesses do you have?
 

purplequill

Junior Member
You have "witnesses" but how many unbiased witnesses do you have?
This is an example of information. Thanks.

So, I have a lot of biased witnesses. Unbiased is better. I have one unbiased one that I can think of: a marriage counselor that he hired and admitted to most of what I'm telling you. I also believe he would admit to most of it himself if called as a witness in court, because he has admitted it before when pressed.

It also seems that the willingness of his entire family and several mutual friends that he knew before me to testify on my behalf would demonstrate some kind of veracity, but I understand that courts may see things another way... which is what I'm trying to find out: how the courts would see things.

Also, if you're telling me things that directly contradict what I know judges have found in other cases with which I am intimately familiar, I may begin to think you just trolling me. Fair 'nuff, I did come to a forum for legal advice.
 
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Silverplum

Senior Member
This is an example of information. Thanks.

So, I have a lot of biased witnesses. Unbiased is better. I have one unbiased one that I can think of: a marriage counselor that he hired and admitted to most of what I'm telling you. I also believe he would admit to most of it himself if called as a witness in court, because he has admitted it before when pressed.

It also seems that the willingness of his entire family and several mutual friends that he knew before me to testify on my behalf would demonstrate some kind of veracity, but I understand that courts may see things another way... which is what I'm trying to find out: how the courts would see things.

Also, if you're telling me things that directly contradict what I know judges have found in other cases with which I am intimately familiar, I may begin to think you just trolling me. Fair 'nuff, I did come to a forum for legal advice.
Good day.
:rolleyes:
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
This is an example of information. Thanks.

So, I have a lot of biased witnesses. Unbiased is better. I have one unbiased one that I can think of: a marriage counselor that he hired and admitted to most of what I'm telling you. I also believe he would admit to most of it himself if called as a witness in court, because he has admitted it before when pressed.

It also seems that the willingness of his entire family and several mutual friends that he knew before me to testify on my behalf would demonstrate some kind of veracity, but I understand that courts may see things another way... which is what I'm trying to find out: how the courts would see things.

Also, if you're telling me things that directly contradict what I know judges have found in other cases with which I am intimately familiar, I may begin to think you just trolling me. Fair 'nuff, I did come to a forum for legal advice.

Oh really? How many Commissioner's cases have you sat in on in WA state?

Where they took hearsay as evidence?

I'll wait.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
This is an example of information. Thanks.

So, I have a lot of biased witnesses. Unbiased is better. I have one unbiased one that I can think of: a marriage counselor that he hired and admitted to most of what I'm telling you. I also believe he would admit to most of it himself if called as a witness in court, because he has admitted it before when pressed.

It also seems that the willingness of his entire family and several mutual friends that he knew before me to testify on my behalf would demonstrate some kind of veracity, but I understand that courts may see things another way... which is what I'm trying to find out: how the courts would see things.

Also, if you're telling me things that directly contradict what I know judges have found in other cases with which I am intimately familiar, I may begin to think you just trolling me. Fair 'nuff, I did come to a forum for legal advice.
HIS family members being willing to testify (if they actually follow through) could be pretty valuable. The problem is that you not only would have to prove that he is still abusing/harassing you, but the fact that joint decision making is negatively impacting your child...and that is what is very difficult to do. You have to prove it with something concrete.

For example, if you have to go to court several times to get a judge to order that your child gets medically necessary treatment, because dad arbitrarily refuses to agree, then a judge might agree that dad shouldn't have joint decision making...but it honestly has to be something concrete.
 

purplequill

Junior Member
HIS family members being willing to testify (if they actually follow through) could be pretty valuable. The problem is that you not only would have to prove that he is still abusing/harassing you, but the fact that joint decision making is negatively impacting your child...and that is what is very difficult to do. You have to prove it with something concrete.

For example, if you have to go to court several times to get a judge to order that your child gets medically necessary treatment, because dad arbitrarily refuses to agree, then a judge might agree that dad shouldn't have joint decision making...but it honestly has to be something concrete.
Thanks. That's the general idea I'm getting after consulting with an attorney yesterday. I have a case for abuse, just not a strong one, and likely expensive. Therefore, we're going to try a different tactic: only try the "abuse" route if the "clean and simple agreement" route doesn't work. He wants us out of his hair and out of his life--without paying anything--as long as it doesn't make him look like a "bad guy". So we'll just play to that, make an air-tight parenting plan that says I can do whatever I want and move where ever I want but he doesn't have to give me anything, and he might just sign it. He's got no lawyer, he hates paperwork; heck, he might just default on it and I'll finish it without him.

How did I afford a lawyer? Well, he threatened his mom with not letting her see our daughter any more, so she disowned him yesterday and said she'll spend his inheritance on paying for a lawyer for me. :cool:
He's not the brightest bulb.
 

purplequill

Junior Member
Oh really? How many Commissioner's cases have you sat in on in WA state?

Where they took hearsay as evidence?

I'll wait.
I don't have to prove that many cases didn't happen how you say, I just have to have one or two to know that it's an oversimplification that keeps me uninformed and therefor harms my case. Why would I want to listen to someone who wants me to walk into court with oversimplified advice? It would seem that person would like me to fail, thinks I'm stupid, or finds it funny. I really don't know what your motive is for me to give up or make bad decisions. :(

Anyway, moot point. His mom's using his inheritance to pay for a lawyer for me (see my other reply).
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
Thanks. That's the general idea I'm getting after consulting with an attorney yesterday. I have a case for abuse, just not a strong one, and likely expensive. Therefore, we're going to try a different tactic: only try the "abuse" route if the "clean and simple agreement" route doesn't work. He wants us out of his hair and out of his life--without paying anything--as long as it doesn't make him look like a "bad guy". So we'll just play to that, make an air-tight parenting plan that says I can do whatever I want and move where ever I want but he doesn't have to give me anything, and he might just sign it. He's got no lawyer, he hates paperwork; heck, he might just default on it and I'll finish it without him.

How did I afford a lawyer? Well, he threatened his mom with not letting her see our daughter any more, so she disowned him yesterday and said she'll spend his inheritance on paying for a lawyer for me.
He's not the brightest bulb.
and

I don't have to prove that many cases didn't happen how you say, I just have to have one or two to know that it's an oversimplification that keeps me uninformed and therefor harms my case. Why would I want to listen to someone who wants me to walk into court with oversimplified advice? It would seem that person would like me to fail, thinks I'm stupid, or finds it funny. I really don't know what your motive is for me to give up or make bad decisions.

Anyway, moot point. His mom's using his inheritance to pay for a lawyer for me (see my other reply).

Alrighty, then.

ETA: Can't believe I forgot this, but :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Anyone can have an "off" day. :cool:
 
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Eekamouse

Senior Member
What are you going to do when he and his mom make up and she pulls the money and you're left with no representation?
 

purplequill

Junior Member
What are you going to do when he and his mom make up and she pulls the money and you're left with no representation?
I think I can probably get a fair distance on a $10K retainer; far enough to make him either capitulate or incriminate himself (especially since he's got no job and tends to like to scream at judges and other authority figures). In any case, that would be fine with me if he was able to make right with her. At this point, the stuff he'd have to do to get back in her good graces is far more extensive than what he'd have to do to get back in mine, because she's a southern baptist pastor's widow.

If I'm painting the picture of a crazy person and you wonder why in 7 hells I married him, good question. I've known him since I was 7, and he truly wasn't this way 5 years ago. Our former marriage counselor actually told me he was concerned that my husband is having a mental health crisis. I tried to tried to keep my mouth shut about his declining grasp on reality while encouraging him to seek treatment. That's why I didn't call the police: I didn't want someone who's actually sick-in-the-head to wave around his medieval sword at the police and get himself shot. I actually cared about him, and still do, but I can't help him anymore.

Oh, also, my parents are willing to help if they had to, they just have less money to burn and would have to sell some stuff, so I don't want it to come to that. If I was truly stuck, they have offered to cover the lawyer.
 
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