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Thread: Need advice regarding supervised visitation and temporary orders

  1. #1
    tawintexas is offline Junior Member
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    Need advice regarding supervised visitation and temporary orders

    Texas

    I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum, but this all started with family violence in Texas.

    I recently filed for a temporary ex parte protective order against my ex-husband. We went to court (he had an attorney - I was pro se). We reached an agreement (a very narrow agreement) outlining the contact he was allowed to have with me.
    [LIST][*]During exchanges we both have to stay in the car[*]He is not allowed to call my phone - he has to use the emergency number and it must be an emergency about the kids specifically[*]He's not allowed to email me EXCEPT about the following - sports equipment needed for the NEXT exchange, medical appointments or emergencies for the kids[/LIST]
    There is also a restraining order in place between he and my fiance (my ex husband assaulted my fiance). The restraining order is for BOTH parties and it allows them to be at the same ballgames, etc but not to go near each other.

    Yesterday, my ex husband sent me TWO emails wishing me happy mother's day, telling me I'm a great mom and then listing legos, toys, books, ds games, etc that he wants back. He also mentioned a soccer ball that he'll need later this summer.

    THEN last night at a game he came right up to me (and my fiance) to ask if I'd received his email?????

    I would like to go back to court and have him held in contempt for violating the temporary order (it's a 90 day order signed by the judge less than a week ago). I really want to do this myself. I think I'm capable and we are trying to buy a new house for our much bigger family so money is an issue.

    I know the law library will help me find the right forms, but can I do this myself? And will he actually get in trouble for doing what he did? The judge told him that his communication with me was "obsessive" (900 emails to one in box in 18 months). We've been divorced for 3 years and it's upwards of 5 emails per day - about nothing...

    Additionally, my children's counselor has recommended supervised visitation for quite a while now (there's a lot of history) so I'm pursuing supervised visitation and I want to make sure this all ties in together but I'm not sure if I am allowed to do that.

    Please advise.
  2. #2
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    Texas

    I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum, but this all started with family violence in Texas.

    I recently filed for a temporary ex parte protective order against my ex-husband. We went to court (he had an attorney - I was pro se). We reached an agreement (a very narrow agreement) outlining the contact he was allowed to have with me.
    [LIST][*]During exchanges we both have to stay in the car[*]He is not allowed to call my phone - he has to use the emergency number and it must be an emergency about the kids specifically[*]He's not allowed to email me EXCEPT about the following - sports equipment needed for the NEXT exchange, medical appointments or emergencies for the kids[/LIST]
    There is also a restraining order in place between he and my fiance (my ex husband assaulted my fiance). The restraining order is for BOTH parties and it allows them to be at the same ballgames, etc but not to go near each other.

    Yesterday, my ex husband sent me TWO emails wishing me happy mother's day, telling me I'm a great mom and then listing legos, toys, books, ds games, etc that he wants back. He also mentioned a soccer ball that he'll need later this summer.

    THEN last night at a game he came right up to me (and my fiance) to ask if I'd received his email?????

    I would like to go back to court and have him held in contempt for violating the temporary order (it's a 90 day order signed by the judge less than a week ago). I really want to do this myself. I think I'm capable and we are trying to buy a new house for our much bigger family so money is an issue.

    I know the law library will help me find the right forms, but can I do this myself? And will he actually get in trouble for doing what he did? The judge told him that his communication with me was "obsessive" (900 emails to one in box in 18 months). We've been divorced for 3 years and it's upwards of 5 emails per day - about nothing...

    Additionally, my children's counselor has recommended supervised visitation for quite a while now (there's a lot of history) so I'm pursuing supervised visitation and I want to make sure this all ties in together but I'm not sure if I am allowed to do that.

    Please advise.
    Did you report the violation to the police? Who has custody of the children? What about his communication was violent/threatening/dangerous? Why did the children's counselor recommend supervised visitation for a "while now"? When did you file for supervised visitation? Has the children's counselor met with dad? Or is she basing this recommendation on what you state and what the children state? Has she reported her concerns to CPS? Have they started an investigation?
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  3. #3
    tawintexas is offline Junior Member
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    response

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    Did you report the violation to the police? Who has custody of the children? What about his communication was violent/threatening/dangerous? Why did the children's counselor recommend supervised visitation for a "while now"? When did you file for supervised visitation? Has the children's counselor met with dad? Or is she basing this recommendation on what you state and what the children state? Has she reported her concerns to CPS? Have they started an investigation?
    1. In Texas a protective order in enforceable by the police, but not the temporary order. It's my understanding that he can be held in contempt for violating it, but not arrested.

    2. I have primary custody of the children, but we are JMC.

    3. He followed me, he threatened to take the kids to Colorado, he is aggressive in front of them, he "charged" our 9 year old in front of witnesses, knocked him to the ground and he hit his head, and he has a history of domestic violence with me during our marriage.

    4. The counselor has met him and has witnessed his behavior personally with the kids. He refers to me as their "nanny" or their "babysitter" to them and in front of her. She actually recommends a social study and psych eval (which I would have to undergo to if the judge orders). And they won't even let him come on their property anymore. Neither will my former attorney.

    5. I have not requested supervised visitation yet. Since he violated the order yesterday I plan to file the necessary papers for the order violation and then file for supervised visitation.

    6. Last year the counselor did open a case with CPS based on her time with my then 8 and 4 year old. Their dad was making threats that included "bringing a .45 to Texas and solving all the problems" to "blowing up the house we live in".

    His behavior has been escalating since we've been divorced. There have been physical assaults, disregard for the judges orders and many other instances. he does not work, he does not have his kids and he was out of state for a year recovering from a fatality car accident that he was involved in with our kids. he was seriously injured and spent a year away from them.

    He's crazy and I don't mean "haha you are so crazy". I mean the counselor would like to have him evaluated for borderline personality disorder.
  4. #4
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    He's crazy and I don't mean "haha you are so crazy". I mean the counselor would like to have him evaluated for borderline personality disorder.
    You mean, you have no legal or medical evidence for your claim. Watch what you state as "fact."
  5. #5
    tawintexas is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    You mean, you have no legal or medical evidence for your claim. Watch what you state as "fact."
    I don't recall stating as "fact". I said that the counselor is recommending that he be evaluated - a social study and a psych evaluation. I said he was crazy. And I would say it again. I am fearful for myself and my children when they are with this person. My OPINION is that there is something not quite right. An opinion that is supported by professionals who have interacted with him, but have not yet evaluated him.

    I'm asking for an opinion regarding clear violations of the temporary order that was signed by a judge less than one week ago prohibiting him from contacting me or coming near me. That is a FACT that he violated the order. I have the email messages as proof as well as a recording of him coming right up to me last night. He also CC'd his own attorney on the communications. I would like to see him held in contempt for that violation. My question was regarding just that. I only gave the background as background. Everything I stated is well documented with the courts and the police, but there hasn't been a psych eval or social study to date so I was merely expressing my opinion as to his mental health.

    If I didn't post this in the right forum then please just let me know and I'll take it somewhere else, but micro-analyzing my use of the word crazy is not helpful to the question I asked. This is extremely serious because it involves the safety of my kids and I don't happen to have a $3,500 retainer handy to hire my preferred family law attorney. I'm just seeking help. If this is not the place that's okay. But this site is called "free advice" and "Watch what you state as "fact." is not exactly what I was hoping to get.
  6. #6
    LdiJ is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    I don't recall stating as "fact". I said that the counselor is recommending that he be evaluated - a social study and a psych evaluation. I said he was crazy. And I would say it again. I am fearful for myself and my children when they are with this person. My OPINION is that there is something not quite right. An opinion that is supported by professionals who have interacted with him, but have not yet evaluated him.

    I'm asking for an opinion regarding clear violations of the temporary order that was signed by a judge less than one week ago prohibiting him from contacting me or coming near me. That is a FACT that he violated the order. I have the email messages as proof as well as a recording of him coming right up to me last night. He also CC'd his own attorney on the communications. I would like to see him held in contempt for that violation. My question was regarding just that. I only gave the background as background. Everything I stated is well documented with the courts and the police, but there hasn't been a psych eval or social study to date so I was merely expressing my opinion as to his mental health.

    If I didn't post this in the right forum then please just let me know and I'll take it somewhere else, but micro-analyzing my use of the word crazy is not helpful to the question I asked. This is extremely serious because it involves the safety of my kids and I don't happen to have a $3,500 retainer handy to hire my preferred family law attorney. I'm just seeking help. If this is not the place that's okay. But this site is called "free advice" and "Watch what you state as "fact." is not exactly what I was hoping to get.
    You can certainly talk to the police about the violation of the temporary protection order to make certain that they cannot assist you. If they cannot then you can certainly file for contempt for the violation of the temporary order and file for a psych eval. However, unfortunately psych evals are pretty expensive too.
  7. #7
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    I don't recall stating as "fact". I said that the counselor is recommending that he be evaluated - a social study and a psych evaluation. I said he was crazy. And I would say it again.
    This may be news to you, but that's a statement of fact.

    You have no legal grounds upon which to make that statement. Good luck with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas
    I am fearful for myself and my children when they are with this person. My OPINION is that there is something not quite right. An opinion that is supported by professionals who have interacted with him, but have not yet evaluated him.
    They should lose their professional licenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas
    I'm asking for an opinion regarding clear violations of the temporary order that was signed by a judge less than one week ago prohibiting him from contacting me or coming near me. That is a FACT that he violated the order. I have the email messages as proof as well as a recording of him coming right up to me last night. He also CC'd his own attorney on the communications. I would like to see him held in contempt for that violation. My question was regarding just that. I only gave the background as background. Everything I stated is well documented with the courts and the police, but there hasn't been a psych eval or social study to date so I was merely expressing my opinion as to his mental health.

    If I didn't post this in the right forum then please just let me know and I'll take it somewhere else, but micro-analyzing my use of the word crazy is not helpful to the question I asked. This is extremely serious because it involves the safety of my kids and I don't happen to have a $3,500 retainer handy to hire my preferred family law attorney. I'm just seeking help. If this is not the place that's okay. But this site is called "free advice" and "Watch what you state as "fact." is not exactly what I was hoping to get.
    Bummer you didn't "enjoy" the perfectly valid legal hint.
    Ohiogal and tuffbrk like this.
  8. #8
    tawintexas is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    This may be news to you, but that's a statement of fact.

    You have no legal grounds upon which to make that statement. Good luck with that.


    They should lose their professional licenses.


    Bummer you didn't "enjoy" the perfectly valid legal hint.
    :-) Awesome. Thanks for your advice.
  9. #9
    tuffbrk is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    Texas

    Additionally, my children's counselor has recommended supervised visitation for quite a while now (there's a lot of history) so I'm pursuing supervised visitation and I want to make sure this all ties in together but I'm not sure if I am allowed to do that.
    The children's counselor has recommended supervised visitation FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW and you also claim in a later post that you are afraid for your children when they are with "this person." Yet you have not yet ensured visitation is in a supervised setting? You are insulted that he calls you a babysitter when you reference him as "this person?" You were in court last week for a Protective Order and did not address your concerns for the children's safety while you were negotiating what was appropriate communication between you and Dad?

    You may want to reach out to a counselor for assistance dealing with your emotions and obtaining some support-perhaps from an advocacy center. It would seem that your fear is preventing you from taking any action whatsoever to protect the children. I would also recommend taking the children to a different counselor pronto. A responsible counselor would not simply make a recommendation - they would follow through to be certain the visitation occurred in a supervised setting.

    Good luck.
    Ohiogal likes this.
  10. #10
    st-kitts is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawintexas View Post
    Texas
    I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum, but this all started with family violence in Texas.
    I recently filed for a temporary ex parte protective order against my ex-husband. We went to court (he had an attorney - I was pro se). We reached an agreement (a very narrow agreement) outlining the contact he was allowed to have with me.
    [LIST][*]During exchanges we both have to stay in the car[*]He is not allowed to call my phone - he has to use the emergency number and it must be an emergency about the kids specifically[*]He's not allowed to email me EXCEPT about the following - sports equipment needed for the NEXT exchange, medical appointments or emergencies for the kids[/LIST]
    .
    Yesterday, my ex husband sent me TWO emails wishing me happy mother's day, telling me I'm a great mom and then listing legos, toys, books, ds games, etc that he wants back. He also mentioned a soccer ball that he'll need later this summer.
    THEN last night at a game he came right up to me (and my fiance) to ask if I'd received his email?????
    I would like to go back to court and have him held in contempt for violating the temporary order (it's a 90 day order signed by the judge less than a week ago). I really want to do this myself.
    You have a half baked protective order that doesn't provide much protection and a violation that is at face value, innocuous. Rather than a protective order, you have more a promise to play together nicely order. I think you will have trouble enforcing this thing. Sure he is testing the limits, and given context and history his actions may be more meaningful to you then us. It seems though that the person that is going to appear unreasonable if you file the violation based on this, is going to be you. It would be easier if you had a restraining order that prohibited all contact, and you simply called the police for any violation. You don't though, so you have to work with what you have. Your choice if you report the violation, but I don't know that I would escalate the situation.

    In terms of changing counselors, I don't see why you would do that based on anything you have posted here. It is true the counselor cannot diagnose anyone they are not treating, but they are free to identify that the symptoms you describe sound like XYZ. I have noted since finding this forum that there is frequently a great difference of opinion between what counselors/psychiatrists may view as best interest of a child and what the legal standard for best interest of the child is. Counselors tend to look at emotional abuse as potentially damaging and consider potential for future harm. Courts tend to look at past behaviors and past proof of harm. Courts consider the constitutional right to parent as sacred. Counselors don't. The legal community generally approaches that two parents are best for every child. Counselors may or may not, depending on the behaviors of those two parents. Counselors don't force actions on their clients/patients. While there may be situations where the counselor is legally required to act, it is not surprising they might suggest action in cases someone below the legal mandate but of concern. I have noted this dichotomy as interesting...

    And as has been noted, calling people names like crazy, especially the father of your kids, just isn't nice. Not to mention part of your kids self esteem is going to be tied up in their view of both parents. You play an important part in the formation of that view. His actions do too, but you aren't helping if you call him names.
    Last edited by st-kitts; 05-17-2012 at 06:53 PM.
  11. #11
    tuffbrk is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by st-kitts View Post
    In terms of changing counselors, I don't see why you would do that based on anything you have posted here. It is true the counselor cannot diagnose anyone they are not treating, but they are free to identify that the symptoms you describe sound like XYZ. I have noted since finding this forum that there is frequently a great difference of opinion between what counselors/psychiatrists may view as best interest of a child and what the legal standard for best interest of the child is. Counselors tend to look at emotional abuse as potentially damaging and consider potential for future harm. Courts tend to look at past behaviors and past proof of harm. Courts consider the constitutional right to parent as sacred. Counselors don't. The legal community generally approaches that two parents are best for every child. Counselors may or may not, depending on the behaviors of those two parents. Counselors don't force actions on their clients/patients. While there may be situations where the counselor is legally required to act, it is not surprising they might suggest action in cases someone below the legal mandate but of concern. I have noted this dichotomy as interesting...
    Ah - very good point, st-kitts. I hadn't considered that the current situation may be below the legal reporting mandate.

    I'm actually concerned that OP's fears are preventing her from taking appropriate action to protect herself and the kids emotionally as well as physically. The anger and frustration can be felt in the post yet there have been no actions taken. Makes me think OP's prior efforts to obtain assistance unsuccessfully has caused her to believe that she is stuck dealing with the situation or that the OP is hoping that, by not reacting, Dad will not be further inclined to behave irrationally. When the instigator gets in your face, so to speak, it's hard to not be overwhelmed by the fear. Even the half baked order sounds like it is as a result of interaction between Dad and OP's fiance, as opposed to anything directly initiated by OP. That may be wrong but it is the impression that I received. It's great the kids are in counseling, but I think OP needs some help as well.
    st-kitts likes this.

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