Nephew charged w/ 2nd degree assault in sibling fight?

[unlisted2016]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington State

My nephews (16 & 19 -- whom had just come back from a weekend with their mother [emotionally unstable, drug issues, etc]) they were in an emotional state and things became physical. No serious injuries, (the oldest bent his younger siblings thumb back and that was all and was no injury to it just sore). The younger brother called the police because he was mad and the older brother was arrested.

They are charging him with 2nd degree domestic violence assault and a no contact was immediately placed. The younger sibling (16 year old and victim in this case) is furious because this was just a fight between siblings and just thought the cops would yell at his brother for a few minutes.

Even in the police report, it is clear this was a fight between siblings that got out of hand.

The 19 year old has a very clean record and no history of violence, but is now facing a 2nd Degree Assault charge. Even the prosecuting attorney who briefly spoke to the grandmother my nephews have been living with said this is very clearly a fight among two siblings and nothing more.

Not only did they originally request a $10,000 bond (judge dropped it to $2500), but 2nd degree seems completely out of the question. This is having a terrible impact on the victim in this case who is battling depression and such from a neglectful mother (hence why he lives with his grandmother) and now feels like he cannot trust police and such to "do the right thing".

This just seems like it should be a 4th degree or lower... Court to decide if they will charge the 19 year old is coming up and I am looking for what to do in this case. We do not have the finances to afford a $5000 retainer for a lawyer.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington State

My nephews (16 & 19 -- whom had just come back from a weekend with their mother [emotionally unstable, drug issues, etc]) they were in an emotional state and things became physical. No serious injuries, (the oldest bent his younger siblings thumb back and that was all and was no injury to it just sore). The younger brother called the police because he was mad and the older brother was arrested.

They are charging him with 2nd degree domestic violence assault and a no contact was immediately placed. The younger sibling (16 year old and victim in this case) is furious because this was just a fight between siblings and just thought the cops would yell at his brother for a few minutes.

Even in the police report, it is clear this was a fight between siblings that got out of hand.

The 19 year old has a very clean record and no history of violence, but is now facing a 2nd Degree Assault charge. Even the prosecuting attorney who briefly spoke to the grandmother my nephews have been living with said this is very clearly a fight among two siblings and nothing more.

Not only did they originally request a $10,000 bond (judge dropped it to $2500), but 2nd degree seems completely out of the question. This is having a terrible impact on the victim in this case who is battling depression and such from a neglectful mother (hence why he lives with his grandmother) and now feels like he cannot trust police and such to "do the right thing".

This just seems like it should be a 4th degree or lower... Court to decide if they will charge the 19 year old is coming up and I am looking for what to do in this case. We do not have the finances to afford a $5000 retainer for a lawyer.

I agree that assault in the second degree, a class B felony, seems an odd charge if the facts are as you state them here. Here is a link to the law: http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.36.021

It seems to me that a 4th degree assault charge, a gross misdemeanor, would be more appropriate - if even that.

The 19 year old should ask for a public defender if he cannot afford an attorney. Because of the seriousness of the felony charge, he should not attempt to handle this without an attorney. I would be surprised if the attorney, at a minimum, could not get the charge reduced.

Good luck.

 

[unlisted2016]

That's what I thought. He has a public defender and it sounds like there is a likelihood of it being reduced at the next court date. Everybody from the bail bonds, consult lawyers, etc have said after looking at the police report that this doesn't make sense for 2nd degree and that the county we are in is "weird" and they have seen them do things like this before (and fairly often). I am hoping charges will be more appropriate on the next court date.

 

[quincy]

That's what I thought. He has a public defender and it sounds like there is a likelihood of it being reduced at the next court date. Everybody from the bail bonds, consult lawyers, etc have said after looking at the police report that this doesn't make sense for 2nd degree and that the county we are in is "weird" and they have seen them do things like this before (and fairly often). I am hoping charges will be more appropriate on the next court date.

It is good that he has a lawyer working for him. I am sure the lawyer will work with the prosecutor to get the charge reduced (or, best case scenario, dismissed).

I hope the siblings have learned from this that physical fighting is not the way to resolve disputes.

 

[Silverplum]

The younger is a moron.

 

[quincy]

The younger is a moron.

While probably true, the finger-bending was still not a very nice thing for the older brother to do ... maybe not a call-the-police-felony-charge thing, but definitely a not-nice thing.

 

[TigerD]

While probably true, the finger-bending was still not a very nice thing for the older brother to do ... maybe not a call-the-police-felony-charge thing, but definitely a not-nice thing.

It's a whole lot nicer than knocking him out. Showed remarkable restraint in the face of his attacker by applying just enough force to end the encounter. <--

TD

 

[commentator]

I find the whole post by the aunt/uncle, whoever, of the nephews, to be rife with justification based on how they had to spend time with their low rent drug abusing sorry butt mother, and that was what caused them to be so emotionally overwrought that they got into a fight.

Oh come on now! At sixteen and especially at nineteen, these young men need to understand that they are no longer cute defenseless kids, they choose their own behaviors and make their own choices how to behave.

And the older one, if he decides he wants to physically fight with his brother is quite likely to be found charged for his behavior in an adult court and with adult consequences. The necessity to act out by bending back his baby brother's finger, or whatever, is something he should've gotten over before age eighteen, regardless of how bad his mother is and how stressed out he may be after a visit to her.

Of course there was a lot of down playing of the incident after the fact, but at the time it was serious enough for the sixteen year old to holler for the police, no way you can down play that enough to make it not having happened. If they do get the young man out of this with reduced charges, they both need to take it as a serious lesson on how to behave. And the rest of the family needs to be a little less understanding and have higher expectations for their behavior in the future.

 

[stealth2]

Maybe someone should explain to the 16yo that the police DID do "the right thing". There was a domestic incident and they arrested the perpetrator. People need to learn that one doesn't call the cops to "teach someone a lesson" just because they are mad.

So where is Dad? Why aren't his feet being held to the flames for apparently not raising his kids? Oh no, it's all Mom's fault.

 

[unlisted2016]

Wow, a lot of assumptions here. I am by no way excusing his actions whatsoever. I agree he should be charged (appropriately, 2nd degree seems too harsh given the facts). I do not have any parental say-so here, I am simply requesting if this is normal or not to be a 2nd degree as from what I read, 2nd degree seems too far ( should be 3rd or 4th from what I can gather). Actually, their emotional state Is relevant, not as an excuse but as part of the facts of the situation. I am not blaming it on the mother, but it is a mitigaring factor as to why it happened. As she is abusive towards them. Ultimately, they are responsible for their own actions.

I have absolutely told the younger that he dis not do anything in regards if he called because he felt he was being injured, threatened, etc. And that the police Are handling it, even if it may not be the way he wants.

The father is not in the picture at all and neither is the mother much for that matter and the grandmother lacks parenting skills but is trying.

Just want to make this clear, I do NOT condone the eldests actions, I simply was asking if 2nd degree was appropriate legally wise and what should be done. Therapy and such is already underway so they can learn to handle anger when emotions are running high

 

[commentator]

At sixteen and eighteen years old, nothing is a "mitigaring" factor for fighting physicially except possible necessity for self-defense. These are not cranky children, these are grown men.

Quote: "This is having a terrible impact on the victim in this case who is battling depression and such from a neglectful mother (hence why he lives with his grandmother) and now feels like he cannot trust police and such to "do the right thing".

Okay, so you are saying the victim in this case is the 16 year old who called the police, and is now angry with them because they charged his brother with something more serious than you thought they should've? So the right thing, which is the thing he had planned on having happen was that the older brother got a good talking to, no charges?

If you feel that the older has been improperly charged, though I'm a little foggy on how you came up with the appropriate charge that didn't happen, then you NEED to help him get an attorney. Do either of these young men have jobs where they could contribute to the defense fund?

Quote: "I'm asking if 2nd degree was appropriate legally wise and what should be done?"

Really, if you don't feel it's appropriate, get an attorney for him. At least shop some attorneys and see if there's going to be that much of a cost immediately with all. Please don't just keep talking about it and do nothing and give them another excuse to sit around and feel sorry for themselves about how badly they've been treated by their mother, their father, life in general and now the court system. Else I have a feeling that a few years from now you'll have two unemployable felony record carrying nephews sitting around waiting to inherit from a grandma they've sucked dry in the interim. Therapy and such will not be helpful if there's no support for it in the rest of their lives.

 

[justalayman]

The younger is a moron.

I'm not so sure I would go there. The younger may simply not realize how oppressive the laws have become. Personally I believe the domestic violence prosecutions are way out of hand. If the laws in place today were around when I was a kid me and everyone one of my siblings could have all been charged with very serious felonies for what then was a typical family matter. while fighting is never the answer, it will happen to some extent in almost every household. Rather than allow the parents to be parents and correct the situation, the courts have taken laws where serious issues were meant to be criminalized and turned it into a situation where Bobby pulling sister Susie's pony tails a very serious crime.


And yes, in my state, Bobby pulling Susie's ponytails could actually be charged as domestic violence.

 

[justalayman]

At sixteen and eighteen years old, nothing is a "mitigaring" factor for fighting physicially except possible necessity for self-defense. These are not cranky children, these are grown men.

i'm guessing you were an only child.

 

[quincy]

... People need to learn that one doesn't call the cops to "teach someone a lesson" just because they are mad ...

This reminds me of the 2-year-old girl in South Carolina who had been taught to call 911 if she needed help, so she called 911 because she needed help getting dressed.

Even if those involved in family violence may err in calling 911 for assistance when the situation really does not warrant such a call, I agree with justalayman that the police, the prosecutors and the courts may overreact to some incidents to the point of absurdity. I know the police cannot know what exactly prompted a call and are acting to quell disturbances with arrests, but some charges filed against some combatants seem totally out-of-whack with the actual offenses committed. What is described by unlisted2016 is just one example of many.

Shoot. If my kids were to call 911 every time they had a tussle with one of their siblings, I would have a household of tiny felons (or I would be serving time in a Michigan jail for being a lousy parent ).

 

[commentator]

Not only did I have siblings, I spent many years in martial arts learning to and teaching people to physically fight and have probably had more fights than most people who don't get paid to do it. And what I said still goes, as my own children and household members have been taught to understand from a very early age, anybody over three or four trying to have a physical altercation with anybody else in your house is a bar fight, domestic violence, inappropriate, NOT ACCEPTABLE. Penalties to be enforced by Grandma.

As I have often said about other issues, we have a crazy culture where we talk all the time about kicking butt, as if it was something great that people should do all the time, (punching somebody in the face, perhaps?) but in reality we don't know how to deal with physical violence, are poorly prepared and very uneducated about how to interact with others in general. And I repeat, this was not some poor little six year old who's been taught to call 911 when he's in need of help. We're talking 16 and 19 here. Getting very close to being on their own and being able to make adult decisions. If nothing else, they should've both known about 19 being old enough to be charged as an adult.