NOT DV but clumsiness -- seriously!

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I am posting for an important reason.


Last March (last Friday in March), I fell down my basement stairs. I have three stories plus a basement in my home. When I fell down the basement stairs, I bled severely and had open cuts on my legs for my months due the metal runners on my bathroom stairs. I ended up with a staph infection that involved conversations regarding whether one of my legs might be amputated.

I was lucky. The infection cleared. Every doctor I saw during that time (at least a dozen different appointments) inquired as to whether I felt safe at home. My husband was NOT at home when I fell -- he was out at children's issues with various alibis. The only one at home when I fell in March were the cats. Damn creatures.

The point being it was a serious fall down the stairs which resulted in several inquiries as to domestic violence and whether I felt safe.


Last night, I fell down a flight of stairs (different flight -- thank you having a three story home PLUS a basement resulting in three different stair cases). I am black and blue all over my butt and back. More than one of my friends (I am a lawyer and my friends are primarily law enforcement/lawyers) have inquired whether I feel safe at home.

Do I feel safe at home? Heck no. I live in a three-story home with basement and apparently stairs are my enemy. I can't move without pain at this point due to the bruising on my back and the fact that my neck is sore.

The sad thing -- the number of comments regarding the fact that this is too clumsy and my husband must have had SOMETHING to do with it. Ummm, something was running across the house when I screamed as I fell. But various comments have been made regarding if I went to the doctor -- literally black and blue on my back and butt and thigh -- that my husband would have been questioned regardless of what I had said. I get it, but I do not get it. Various of my contacts (attorneys/family/officers) have said that if I went to the ER over this, my husband may have been arrested for further questioning even though he did nothing.


I am clumsy. I get it. But the fact that my family could have been disrupted if I needed medical attention last night is ridiculous.

Basically, the point is I am not the victim of domestic violence HOWEVER based upon all of my contacts, if I had needed medical attention due to my clumsiness (twice in one year), my family would have been considered as one needing help for DV.

Nope. More like, help needed for my clumsiness. If I ever win the lotto, I am buying a ranch style house. With no stairs.

 

[Pinkie39]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I am posting for an important reason.


Last March (last Friday in March), I fell down my basement stairs. I have three stories plus a basement in my home. When I fell down the basement stairs, I bled severely and had open cuts on my legs for my months due the metal runners on my bathroom stairs. I ended up with a staph infection that involved conversations regarding whether one of my legs might be amputated.

I was lucky. The infection cleared. Every doctor I saw during that time (at least a dozen different appointments) inquired as to whether I felt safe at home. My husband was NOT at home when I fell -- he was out at children's issues with various alibis. The only one at home when I fell in March were the cats. Damn creatures.

The point being it was a serious fall down the stairs which resulted in several inquiries as to domestic violence and whether I felt safe.


Last night, I fell down a flight of stairs (different flight -- thank you having a three story home PLUS a basement resulting in three different stair cases). I am black and blue all over my butt and back. More than one of my friends (I am a lawyer and my friends are primarily law enforcement/lawyers) have inquired whether I feel safe at home.

Do I feel safe at home? Heck no. I live in a three-story home with basement and apparently stairs are my enemy. I can't move without pain at this point due to the bruising on my back and the fact that my neck is sore.

The sad thing -- the number of comments regarding the fact that this is too clumsy and my husband must have had SOMETHING to do with it. Ummm, something was running across the house when I screamed as I fell. But various comments have been made regarding if I went to the doctor -- literally black and blue on my back and butt and thigh -- that my husband would have been questioned regardless of what I had said. I get it, but I do not get it. Various of my contacts (attorneys/family/officers) have said that if I went to the ER over this, my husband may have been arrested for further questioning even though he did nothing.


I am clumsy. I get it. But the fact that my family could have been disrupted if I needed medical attention last night is ridiculous.

Basically, the point is I am not the victim of domestic violence HOWEVER based upon all of my contacts, if I had needed medical attention due to my clumsiness (twice in one year), my family would have been considered as one needing help for DV.

Nope. More like, help needed for my clumsiness. If I ever win the lotto, I am buying a ranch style house. With no stairs.

I live in a two story house with a basement, and have a dog and a cat, so believe me, I understand! The dog made my husband slip down the outside front steps once, in the dog's eagerness to go for a walk.

Is the clumsiness a new thing? If so, I'd be concerned about possible undiagnosed physical or neurological issues.

 

[cbg]

Do you have a legal question?

ETA - I didn't even see who did the posting - sorry.

 

[Ladyback1]

You know? Your husband should post his issue...We don't like dealing with 3rd parties!

 

[nocontact]

I know I'm not part of your inner group here, but I would like to comment.

First of all, OhioGal, sorry for your mishaps and hope you feel much better soon. Having fallen down stairs many times before, I understand the feeling...*OUCH!!*

At the same time, there are many people who have experienced DV who absolutely WISH they had the contacts that you do who were half as concerned as your contacts are. There are so many people who don't speak for themselves, or when they do, cannot get the protection they need because there just isn't enough "evidence." Just to point out, DV isn't always physical, as there is also emotional and mental abuse, and sometimes, those can be far more traumatizing. (Not that you need any explanation from me...)

This is NOTHING against you or what you are trying to say about your family getting disrupted...

Again, I'm glad you're not being abused, but be thankful for the connections you do have. They are just concerned for your welfare. Although, I have to say, from what I've read on this forum, you are a force to be reckoned with...I'd be more worried about the other person.

 

[TigerD]

I read a short story once about a hooker who went to the ER with a fairly serious beating. She told the ER nurse she walked in to a door. The nurse didn't believe her, but they couldn't do anything so she was treated and released. As the nurse was talking to a friendly cop in the lobby, they saw the hooker get in a car with big guy. The nurse asked the cop if he knew who that was. The cop said it was her pimp, "Barn" Dore.


TD

 

[justalayman]

Ignoring the clumsiness since it was obvious the post was about DV and the cause of the injury was merely supporting information;

I understand your concerns. While I agree there is a DV probkem, I also believe the laws as they are used are overly aggressively. It has become obvious the courts do not want a victim and perpetrator to ever live together again. Many times the violence is not really intended as violence; a man stopping his sig other from leaving the house angry by restraining her; one party pushing the other out of the way to leave the home; and many other Acts one would never consider as battery if the people were not domestic partners.

The perp is arrested and an NCO is out in place to protect the "inured" party. I have seen such orders in place for over 6 months for a situation of a man that slapped his wife in response to her grabbing the steering wheel of the car he was driving. They now have a very young child who cannot see his parents together in this very important time in his life. Now, again, I disagree with DV but they are prosecuting actions that just don't reach the level of DV in my mind.



Then, rather than imposing counseling for the parties that intend to and will return home, they prevent all contact. Then during that extended period of time the parties have to figure out how to maintain 2 homes when they may not have been able to support one very well. One would think the courts intent is that the parties seperate or even divorce.

I agree that true cases of DV should be dealt with very seriously but the courts have gone overboard in investigating and prosecuting many cases of DV.

 

[nocontact]

Ignoring the clumsiness since it was obvious the post was about DV and the cause of the injury was merely supporting information;

I understand your concerns. While I agree there is a DV probkem, I also believe the laws as they are used are overly aggressively. It has become obvious the courts do not want a victim and perpetrator to ever live together again. Many times the violence is not really intended as violence; a man stopping his sig other from leaving the house angry by restraining her; one party pushing the other out of the way to leave the home; and many other Acts one would never consider as battery if the people were not domestic partners.

The perp is arrested and an NCO is out in place to protect the "inured" party. I have seen such orders in place for over 6 months for a situation of a man that slapped his wife in response to her grabbing the steering wheel of the car he was driving. They now have a very young child who cannot see his parents together in this very important time in his life. Now, again, I disagree with DV but they are prosecuting actions that just don't reach the level of DV in my mind.



Then, rather than imposing counseling for the parties that intend to and will return home, they prevent all contact. Then during that extended period of time the parties have to figure out how to maintain 2 homes when they may not have been able to support one very well. One would think the courts intent is that the parties seperate or even divorce.

I agree that true cases of DV should be dealt with very seriously but the courts have gone overboard in investigating and prosecuting many cases of DV.

I agree to a certain extent. There are loopholes going both ways. Courts sometimes go overboard in "protecting" the "injured" parties, and there are those who abuse the system and cry foul just for their own benefit. At the same time, there are also many cases where the abuser is just "too smart" and is able to work the system just enough so as not to get caught.

I'm not a huge supporter of divorce, but even with counseling, some people simply should not be together. I used to think differently, but my personal experiences have taught me otherwise. I stayed as long as I did because of the children, but it also because I wanted better for the children that I eventually left, if that makes any sense.

 

[single317dad]

Ignoring the clumsiness since it was obvious the post was about DV and the cause of the injury was merely supporting information;

I understand your concerns. While I agree there is a DV probkem, I also believe the laws as they are used are overly aggressively. It has become obvious the courts do not want a victim and perpetrator to ever live together again. Many times the violence is not really intended as violence; a man stopping his sig other from leaving the house angry by restraining her; one party pushing the other out of the way to leave the home; and many other Acts one would never consider as battery if the people were not domestic partners.

The perp is arrested and an NCO is out in place to protect the "inured" party. I have seen such orders in place for over 6 months for a situation of a man that slapped his wife in response to her grabbing the steering wheel of the car he was driving. They now have a very young child who cannot see his parents together in this very important time in his life. Now, again, I disagree with DV but they are prosecuting actions that just don't reach the level of DV in my mind.



Then, rather than imposing counseling for the parties that intend to and will return home, they prevent all contact. Then during that extended period of time the parties have to figure out how to maintain 2 homes when they may not have been able to support one very well. One would think the courts intent is that the parties seperate or even divorce.

I agree that true cases of DV should be dealt with very seriously but the courts have gone overboard in investigating and prosecuting many cases of DV.

As one of the many (thousands) who has found himself on the wrong end of this overreaching vendetta against DV, I completely agree. My ex's doctors all made extra effort to get her aside away from me and ask her those same "safety" questions. Sometimes I would hear part of the conversation, and I could barely control myself. Did she feel safe at home with me? Ha! I was the very last person in the world with any patience left for her BS! I was the only one of her kids' dads that wouldn't have beaten her senseless. Yet the fact that a drug addict bruises easily and looks like a train wreck is somehow related to my violent nature, I guess.

The good news is as much as DV can be misused as a tool for temporary custody or simply to facilitate robbery (yeah, she stole everything of value when the judge ordered me out of my own house, ex parte, with zero evidence presented), it won't last forever. After things cool down, the right parent usually ends up with custody, and lives can continue with minimal further interruption.

The worst result of all this is that it waters down real DV issues. Much like false claims of rape and the misuse/overuse of rape allegations, overreaching DV policy will only serve to eventually weaken response to actual dangerous situations.

 

[Ohiogal]

Here is the thing that really bothers me about this all -- I was involved with a bodybuilder for a while. He was totally into that scene. He did the powders, potions and what have you (steroids -- very likely but I can't say for sure). He used me for target practice -- ONCE. And only once. The first time he decided I made a perfect target, I was gone and he was out. Haven't been around him since except in court for a hearing. The point is, I know what DV is.

My clumsiness is not DV. It is stupidity on my part. Hubby (or anyone else) was no where around me both times I fell down the stairs. The fear is the suspicion that comes with it. That doesn't mean DV is not real or true. The problem is, this situation is NOT DV and there is no reason why there should be suspicion but I got calls after falling down the stairs (especially since it was my second time this calendar year). And all my buddies in law enforcement said this is something that would trigger issues (including questioning, an arrest and possibly charges). That is troublesome.

There needs to be a middle ground.

 

[Pinkie39]

As one of the many (thousands) who has found himself on the wrong end of this overreaching vendetta against DV, I completely agree. My ex's doctors all made extra effort to get her aside away from me and ask her those same "safety" questions. Sometimes I would hear part of the conversation, and I could barely control myself. Did she feel safe at home with me? Ha! I was the very last person in the world with any patience left for her BS! I was the only one of her kids' dads that wouldn't have beaten her senseless. Yet the fact that a drug addict bruises easily and looks like a train wreck is somehow related to my violent nature, I guess.

The good news is as much as DV can be misused as a tool for temporary custody or simply to facilitate robbery (yeah, she stole everything of value when the judge ordered me out of my own house, ex parte, with zero evidence presented), it won't last forever. After things cool down, the right parent usually ends up with custody, and lives can continue with minimal further interruption.

The worst result of all this is that it waters down real DV issues. Much like false claims of rape and the misuse/overuse of rape allegations, overreaching DV policy will only serve to eventually weaken response to actual dangerous situations.

You would like the memoir/book The Pursuit of Happness (yes, deliberate misspelling). It really shows how someone's life can be destroyed over a false DV accusation.

 

[Just Blue]

Here is the thing that really bothers me about this all -- I was involved with a bodybuilder for a while. He was totally into that scene. He did the powders, potions and what have you (steroids -- very likely but I can't say for sure). He used me for target practice -- ONCE. And only once. The first time he decided I made a perfect target, I was gone and he was out. Haven't been around him since except in court for a hearing. The point is, I know what DV is.

My clumsiness is not DV. It is stupidity on my part. Hubby (or anyone else) was no where around me both times I fell down the stairs. The fear is the suspicion that comes with it. That doesn't mean DV is not real or true. The problem is, this situation is NOT DV and there is no reason why there should be suspicion but I got calls after falling down the stairs (especially since it was my second time this calendar year). And all my buddies in law enforcement said this is something that would trigger issues (including questioning, an arrest and possibly charges). That is troublesome.

There needs to be a middle ground.

OG...You are not stupid/ You just don't know how to use stairs...

 

[Zigner]

OG...You are not stupid/ You just don't know how to use stairs...

Vertical motion impaired.

 

[Just Blue]

Vertical motion impaired.

lol...

I actually was VMI last summer. And the ER Doctor asked me all the same stuff as OG has talked about. As hubby was outside tending the grill
it wasn't possible for him to have pushed me down the stairs...And my injuries were consistant with what I told him. I was going UP the stair when my flipfolpfailue happened.

 

[CdwJava]

Sadly, for every TRUE story of someone being clumsy enough to fall down a flight of stairs or open a door on their forehead, there are a dozen or more victims that falsely toss out such a claim in order to shield their abuser. This is why those of us who investigate DV (medical, child welfare, and law enforcement professionals) are slow to buy such a claim. And, yes, there are "victims" that do make false claims as well. But, by and large, victims tend to lie to protect their abuser far more often than they lie to get him into trouble.

DV is an insidious crime which - like drug abuse - tears at more lives than the parties involved. It has a trickle down effect to those around them - primarily the children. There are a great many mischaracterizations of the laws that surrounds DV, sometimes even by officers who see a pro-arrest bent in the law or agency policy as a MANDATORY one. What many states (perhaps most) have is a law that encourages an arrest but does not mandate it (in my state the only mandatory arrest is for violation of a DV restraining order hen PC exists to believe it was violated). But, even where an arrest might be mandated, there must still exist the legal prerequisite for an arrest. That is to say that the arresting officer must also have the requisite probable cause to believe that a crime has occurred and that the suspect to be arrested committed the crime.

An arrest and a prosecution for DV should require more than a simple medical report of a suspicion injury that stands contradicted by the victim's statement. Even if the medical professional is willing to testify that the injury COULD NOT have occurred the way the patient/victim states, that is not proof that the husband/boyfriend/significant other committed the offense. Any law enforcement official or prosecutor that acts on such paucity of evidence is remiss in his responsibilities. However, it would be reasonable to investigate further. But, I seriously doubt the OP's husband could have been arrested because she showed up at the doctor's all black and blue.

As a note, my wife has a blood illness called purpura. She gets dark, visible bruises merely by leaning against the table or bumping into the door jam as she walks out the door carrying an armload of school books. For a quarter century doctors and even a few of her co-workers have taken her aside and asked her if she is being abused at home by her husband or one of her sons. I wonder all the time whether or not these people believe her explanation or not. But, I have never once been asked about it so it's pretty clear that the bruises alone are not sufficient to even open an investigation or I would have been subject to scrutiny even before I was an officer.

DV is a serious crime in many ways. Yes, some victims use the system to their advantage. Far more don't use the system at all and continue to be abused. When the law is applied properly and not in an overly zealous manner, it generally works to a limited degree. However, since most victims recant or decline to cooperate, far too many cases do not move ahead ... and far too many victims sink deeper into the dark abyss of abuse.