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  1. #1
    bad_situation is offline Junior Member
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    Psychological Evaluation - How to Order It for Abusive Individual?

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA. The actual question is in the last paragraph by the way.

    My girlfriend was being stalked by a man she did not personally know who found her home phone number and kept leaving her messages. She ignored him for a while until the messages started to get more and more demanding (i.e. "If you don't return my call, than you are an idiot"). She was tired of it and finally picked up the phone and told the guy to stop harassing her and hung up. He responded by waiting for her outside of her house, threatening her life, and finally hitting her (she has four neighbors who are third-party witnesses to all of this).

    She called the cops but they said the DA wouldn't pursue anything until she got a restraining order against him. As her boyfriend, I was very frustrated about the whole situation and the police officer's (understandable) reluctance to pursue. As such, within several hours of the incident, I found out where he lives and decided to stop by to talk to him. It was very clear within several minutes that he has a serious mental disorder. He threatened to get a gun and kill both me and my girlfriend and was screaming completely random and paranoid things that made no sense. More importantly, he threatened to harm my girlfriend several times.

    I did some digging and found out he is 26 years old and he lives with his younger brother and younger sister (the house is in his father's name - the father does not live in town). His brother knows about his older brother's mental problems and is also very afraid for his younger 18-year old sister's safety. He wants to see his older brother get some mental help as the older brother is refusing any treatment. The younger brother simply does not know what to do and doesn't know where to go for help.

    My girlfriend already got a restraining order, but I am now sympathetic to that older brother (and still afraid for her safety). I want to help this guy undergo psychological evaluation to determine how he can be helped.

    From reading up on the topic, I believe that, since he is technically not an "immediate" threat to anyone, the correct body of law that would apply here is WIC Section 5200 (please see: [url=http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5200-5213]CA Codes (wic:5200-5213)[/url]).

    Is there a sample form out there that I can fill out for this case? Is there anything else I should attach to the form? Where I would submit the form? Thank you!

    P.S. I do apologize if this is the incorrect section. I've thought for a while and wasn't completely certain of the appropriate forum to put this under.
  2. #2
    Proserpina is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA. The actual question is in the last paragraph by the way.

    My girlfriend was being stalked by a man she did not personally know who found her home phone number and kept leaving her messages. She ignored him for a while until the messages started to get more and more demanding (i.e. "If you don't return my call, than you are an idiot"). She was tired of it and finally picked up the phone and told the guy to stop harassing her and hung up. He responded by waiting for her outside of her house, threatening her life, and finally hitting her (she has four neighbors who are third-party witnesses to all of this).

    How did this person she didn't know find out where she lived?


    She called the cops but they said the DA wouldn't pursue anything until she got a restraining order against him. As her boyfriend, I was very frustrated about the whole situation and the police officer's (understandable) reluctance to pursue. As such, within several hours of the incident, I found out where he lives and decided to stop by to talk to him.

    That was foolish. You had no right to do that whatsoever. You may have exacerbated the situation....specially because you next said:


    It was very clear within several minutes that he has a serious mental disorder. He threatened to get a gun and kill both me and my girlfriend and was screaming completely random and paranoid things that made no sense. More importantly, he threatened to harm my girlfriend several times.

    You tracked him down, went to his house and you're surprised he felt threatened and paranoid? You're lucky YOU didn't end up with a restraining order.



    I did some digging and found out he is 26 years old and he lives with his younger brother and younger sister (the house is in his father's name - the father does not live in town). His brother knows about his older brother's mental problems and is also very afraid for his younger 18-year old sister's safety. He wants to see his older brother get some mental help as the older brother is refusing any treatment. The younger brother simply does not know what to do and doesn't know where to go for help.

    My girlfriend already got a restraining order, but I am now sympathetic to that older brother (and still afraid for her safety). I want to help this guy undergo psychological evaluation to determine how he can be helped.

    From reading up on the topic, I believe that, since he is technically not an "immediate" threat to anyone, the correct body of law that would apply here is WIC Section 5200 (please see: [url=http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5200-5213]CA Codes (wic:5200-5213)[/url]).

    Is there a sample form out there that I can fill out for this case? Is there anything else I should attach to the form? Where I would submit the form? Thank you!

    P.S. I do apologize if this is the incorrect section. I've thought for a while and wasn't completely certain of the appropriate forum to put this under.


    You have no standing to do anything at all.

    Sorry.

    This matter is legally none of your business; if a psych evaluation is appropriate the courts will make that decision themselves.
  3. #3
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA. The actual question is in the last paragraph by the way.

    My girlfriend was being stalked by a man she did not personally know who found her home phone number and kept leaving her messages. She ignored him for a while until the messages started to get more and more demanding (i.e. "If you don't return my call, than you are an idiot"). She was tired of it and finally picked up the phone and told the guy to stop harassing her and hung up. He responded by waiting for her outside of her house, threatening her life, and finally hitting her (she has four neighbors who are third-party witnesses to all of this).

    She called the cops but they said the DA wouldn't pursue anything until she got a restraining order against him. As her boyfriend, I was very frustrated about the whole situation and the police officer's (understandable) reluctance to pursue. As such, within several hours of the incident, I found out where he lives and decided to stop by to talk to him. It was very clear within several minutes that he has a serious mental disorder. He threatened to get a gun and kill both me and my girlfriend and was screaming completely random and paranoid things that made no sense. More importantly, he threatened to harm my girlfriend several times.

    I did some digging and found out he is 26 years old and he lives with his younger brother and younger sister (the house is in his father's name - the father does not live in town). His brother knows about his older brother's mental problems and is also very afraid for his younger 18-year old sister's safety. He wants to see his older brother get some mental help as the older brother is refusing any treatment. The younger brother simply does not know what to do and doesn't know where to go for help.

    My girlfriend already got a restraining order, but I am now sympathetic to that older brother (and still afraid for her safety). I want to help this guy undergo psychological evaluation to determine how he can be helped.
    From reading up on the topic, I believe that, since he is technically not an "immediate" threat to anyone, the correct body of law that would apply here is WIC Section 5200 (please see: [url=http://info.sen.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5200-5213]CA Codes (wic:5200-5213)[/url]).

    Is there a sample form out there that I can fill out for this case? Is there anything else I should attach to the form? Where I would submit the form? Thank you!

    P.S. I do apologize if this is the incorrect section. I've thought for a while and wasn't completely certain of the appropriate forum to put this under.
    YOU can't file anything on your gf's behalf. Or anyone else's behalf.

    You can only file on YOUR behalf.
  4. #4
    bad_situation is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proserpina View Post
    How did this person she didn't know find out where she lived?
    Our guess is that he was in her class in college and found out what her name is. It's not difficult to look someone up when you have their name. Either that or Facebook. Or MySpace. We're not completely sure.
    That was foolish. You had no right to do that whatsoever. You may have exacerbated the situation....specially because you next said: You tracked him down, went to his house and you're surprised he felt threatened and paranoid?
    My girlfriend was attacked. The tone of your response seems indicative of you trying to elicit an emotional response from me which will result in a fruitless internet-debate about the rationality of something not related to my actual question. If that is correct, I appreciate your time but I have no inclination to participate in such a debate in this thread.
    You have no standing to do anything at all.

    Sorry.

    This matter is legally none of your business; if a psych evaluation is appropriate the courts will make that decision themselves.
    This is simply legally and practically incorrect. If you disagree, please provide your argument.

    CA Code WIC: 5201
    5201. Any individual may apply to the person or agency designated
    by the county for a petition alleging that there is in the county a
    person who is, as a result of mental disorder a danger to others, or
    to himself, or is gravely disabled, and requesting that an evaluation
    of the person's condition be made."


    To reiterate, I am not doing this out of revenge. I am doing this to help the younger brother as he does not know what to do. Please help me understand what form to fill out, suggested paperwork to submit, and what agency to submit this to (Family Court at the Superior Court of CA perhaps?) For the record, I also never said anything about filing on anyone's behalf; however, if my girlfriend or her brother needed to fill something out to get this man some help, I am certain they would be happy to do so.
    Last edited by bad_situation; 05-13-2010 at 01:16 PM.
  5. #5
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    You may hire an attorney.

    Good day to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation View Post
    Our guess is that he was in her class in college and found out what her name is. It's not difficult to look someone up when you have their name. Either that or Facebook. Or MySpace. We're not completely sure.My girlfriend was attacked. The tone of your response seems indicative of you trying to elicit an emotional response from me which will result in a fruitless internet-debate about the rationality of something not related to my actual question. If that is correct, I appreciate your time but I have no inclination to participate in such a debate in this thread.
    This is simply legally and practically incorrect. If you disagree, please provide your argument.

    CA Code WIC: 5201
    5201. Any individual may apply to the person or agency designated
    by the county for a petition alleging that there is in the county a
    person who is, as a result of mental disorder a danger to others, or
    to himself, or is gravely disabled, and requesting that an evaluation
    of the person's condition be made."


    To reiterate, I am not doing this out of revenge. I am doing this to help the younger brother as he does not know what to do. Please help me understand what form to fill out, suggested paperwork to submit, and what agency to submit this to (Family Court at the Superior Court of CA perhaps?) For the record, I also never said anything about filing on anyone's behalf; however, if my girlfriend or her brother needed to fill something out to get this man some help, I am certain they would be happy to do so.
  6. #6
    bad_situation is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    You may hire an attorney.

    Good day to you.
    Thank you for the advice and you have a good day too.

    If anyone has dealt with the situation or has any idea about where I can find the answer, please let me know.
  7. #7
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    About all you can do is call the local mental health agency. If they choose to contact the person and make inquiry, great. If not, oh well. You cannot force them to evaluate him nor can they compel him to be evaluated simply on your request.

    In the meantime, as long as he adheres to the TRO, all is good in the world.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  8. #8
    bad_situation is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    About all you can do is call the local mental health agency. If they choose to contact the person and make inquiry, great. If not, oh well. You cannot force them to evaluate him nor can they compel him to be evaluated simply on your request.

    In the meantime, as long as he adheres to the TRO, all is good in the world.
    Thank you. I've also contacted the detective unit of the local Sheriff's department and that was the answer I received as well.

    For those who may have a similar question:

    Basically, the law does allow any citizen to make a recommendation for a psychological evaluation for other citizens who are a danger to themselves or others (see post above). This is a judicial review and would probably have to be filed/submitted with the local family court (as far as I understand). However, it is highly unlikely that the case will be seriously investigated because of the potential for abuse of this law.

    The best bet for getting such an individual help is to probably get a temporary restraining order and present your case in front of the judge when the order is reviewed. Completely depending on the judge, if you are lucky and the suspect acts crazy during this trial, the judge may order him to undergo a psychological evaluation, but this is also very very unlikely. It seems the only likely scenario under which a court ordered psychological evaluation may be feasible is when the parent wants their 'dependent' child to undergo such testing or when the parent's ability to raise the child are questioned. There is also the 5150 police psychiatric hold but cops are hesitant to use that unless the individual is acting crazy in front of them.

    In other words, if a mentally unstable individual hits your girlfriend or wife, then you should get a restraining order right away so he ends up in jail if he violates it during this time. If the individual does not violate the restraining order and the judge chooses not to let the restraining order stay, you are pretty much out of options unless you track the guy down to his house at night and break his legs with a baseball bat if he ever does anything to your girlfriend or wife again.
    Last edited by bad_situation; 05-14-2010 at 10:12 AM.
  9. #9
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    If the guy does not break a restraining order or committing some other crime, why are you going to hunt him down and break his legs? Because you think he MIGHT do something? If he commits a crime, you call the police. If he poses an immediate threat you utilize REASONABLE force to protect yourself and others.

    The law is what it is. Or would you rather have a system whereby anyone can apply for a mental health evaluation of their neighbor and their neighbor will be hauled off for an evaluation? Do you really want a society where people's liberties are so easily taken away? I do not.

    Oh, and 5150 was modified some years back to allow for the evaluation of information received regarding a subject even if not observed by the officer or clinician at the time of evaluation. In other words, we CAN use some recent history in the evaluation even if the subject appears fine at the moment of contact.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  10. #10
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation View Post
    Thank you. I've also contacted the detective unit of the local Sheriff's department and that was the answer I received as well.

    For those who may have a similar question:
    Beware to users: The conclusions reached by the poster bad_situation are HIS alone, and are based upon a phone call and some haphazard reading of his own thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation
    Basically, the law does allow any citizen to make a recommendation for a psychological evaluation for other citizens who are a danger to themselves or others (see post above). This is a judicial review and would probably have to be filed/submitted with the local family court (as far as I understand). However, it is highly unlikely that the case will be seriously investigated because of the potential for abuse of this law.

    The best bet for getting such an individual help is to probably get a temporary restraining order and present your case in front of the judge when the order is reviewed.
    Please do note that only the individual can obtain a restraining order, not a friend or boyfriend on the individual's behalf.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation
    Completely depending on the judge, if you are lucky and the suspect acts crazy during this trial,
    Yes, that's always a lucky, lucky thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation
    the judge may order him to undergo a psychological evaluation, but this is also very very unlikely. It seems the only likely scenario under which a court ordered psychological evaluation may be feasible is when the parent wants their 'dependent' child to undergo such testing or when the parent's ability to raise the child are questioned. There is also the 5150 police psychiatric hold but cops are hesitant to use that unless the individual is acting crazy in front of them.
    Indeed...

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation
    In other words, if a mentally unstable individual hits your girlfriend or wife, then you should get a restraining order right away so he ends up in jail if he violates it during this time. If the individual does not violate the restraining order and the judge chooses not to let the restraining order stay, you are pretty much out of options unless you track the guy down to his house at night and break his legs with a baseball bat if he ever does anything to your girlfriend or wife again.
    I would've left your whole moronic post alone, if it weren't for the bolded phrases above. Your "lordly ownership" tone towards women, and your attitude that you must control and be a part of the legal process FOR your gf, both really irritate the holy bananas out of me.

    Women are perfectly capable of acting on their own. "Your" women may be helpless little bunnies, but not women *I* know. And I don't need anyone to break legs with bats. I can do that myownself, thanks.

    So here's the LEGAL word: If a PERSON is abused and/or is in fear, THAT PERSON may go to the Court and request a restraining order.
  11. #11
    bad_situation is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post

    I would've left your whole moronic post alone, if it weren't for the bolded phrases above. Your "lordly ownership" tone towards women, and your attitude that you must control and be a part of the legal process FOR your gf, both really irritate the holy bananas out of me.

    Women are perfectly capable of acting on their own. "Your" women may be helpless little bunnies, but not women *I* know. And I don't need anyone to break legs with bats. I can do that myownself, thanks.
    lol the fact you are so easily irritated is kind of cute. Thank you for taking the time to respond anyway. It's good you can take care of yourself. My girlfriend is 115lbs and the suspect is probably about 220lbs but that's another discussion.

    Thank you cdwjava by the way! You are correct. I understand the reason for the law. I even understand why the DA can't investigate all assault cases (budget and time). The legal system is not and cannot be a perfect system.
    Last edited by bad_situation; 05-14-2010 at 04:23 PM.
  12. #12
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation View Post
    lol the fact you are so easily irritated is kind of cute.
    I am way cute, all the time.

    Doesn't mean I'm wrong about your superior attitude toward women.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad_situation
    By the way, for the record, I stopped by his house and beat his ass.
    I ain't impressed.

  13. #13
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    I seriously doubt he stopped by someone's house and "beat his ass." Such bravado is typically bluff and bluster. If you DID such a thing, you very possibly committed a felony depending on how it went down so you may want to cease being a point of contact with the police or the court on behalf of your girlfriend because you could find yourself hauled off to jail. And if that happened, by your reasoning, your girlfriend would be helpless from the deprivations of this man who appears not to have yet committed any crime.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  14. #14
    st-kitts is offline Member
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    The advice is free. So you get what you get. The Nor Cal Sargeant and OhioGal are the only persons that post on this site with any apparent credentials to back their statements. The rest, well, you might as well just go door to door or ask your bartender or waiter what they think. Read the post threads started by those that reply to your question, and you will see what I mean. And mental health issues are so frustrating. As a bystander - you can do - nothing....

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