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Confused011

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I met a detective and she told me my pain management dr. is under investigation. She had me sign a medical release form and that was it. I left. A friend who goes to the same place refused to sign it n they sent her a letter saying they are going to court to have the judge release her medical records because there is an on going criminal investigation. She is the only other person I know that goes there so I have no idea if anyone else has had this happen to them. I called a lawyer n he said the investigators say they are investigating doctors then they are going through your records in investigating the patient also! I told the lawyer that about 2 yrs ago I was getting pain meds from primary care n pain management dr. I stopped doing this and stayed with only 1 dr. when someone told me I could get in trouble for this(almost 2yrs ago). he said they are going back many years on doctor shopping. What should I do? Has anybody heard about this? Do they make patients sign medical release forms when it's only the dr. Being investigated. I'm expecting a knock on my door any second to be picked up! I'm so scared!
 


tranquility

Senior Member
I met a detective and she told me my pain management dr. is under investigation. She had me sign a medical release form and that was it.
Before, the police could have developed facts which would lead a reasonable person to believe the YOU are in violation of the law and taken that "probable cause" to a judge to get a copy of your medical records. Now, just because you believe the nice policeman who was on a fishing expedition, you are at risk of criminal sanction for something which happened years ago. Good move, cooperating with the police and everything by giving up your 4th amendment and HIPAA rights. What did you get in exchange?

Now, that's not to say the police are trolling around looking for patients who are going doctor shopping from a couple of years ago. I have little doubt the focus of the investigation was on the health care provider. However, now, like all such task force/detective issues, the OP is now in play as well. Maybe they need his testimony and will want to find something to twist him with or maybe their original investigation turned up bupkis and they need to start charging someone with something or they look like fools. The OP hopes "maybe" never comes.

From this point forward, the OP should not talk about this with anyone except his attorney. Those nice young men (detectives) may want to talk with the OP some day, "just to clear something up". Don't do it, OP. Instead of trying to explain your pain or the the steps you took to get proper medical care you say, "I'd like to speak with my attorney before any questioning. Am I free to leave to obtain one now?" If the answer is anything other than "yes" and allowing you to leave their presence, repeat as necessary.
 

dave33

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
I met a detective and she told me my pain management dr. is under investigation. She had me sign a medical release form and that was it. I left. A friend who goes to the same place refused to sign it n they sent her a letter saying they are going to court to have the judge release her medical records because there is an on going criminal investigation. She is the only other person I know that goes there so I have no idea if anyone else has had this happen to them. I called a lawyer n he said the investigators say they are investigating doctors then they are going through your records in investigating the patient also! I told the lawyer that about 2 yrs ago I was getting pain meds from primary care n pain management dr. I stopped doing this and stayed with only 1 dr. when someone told me I could get in trouble for this(almost 2yrs ago). he said they are going back many years on doctor shopping. What should I do? Has anybody heard about this? Do they make patients sign medical release forms when it's only the dr. Being investigated. I'm expecting a knock on my door any second to be picked up! I'm so scared!
Why are you scared? You have done nothing wrong. Do not answer any questions, as already pointed out discuss any questions with an attorney. goodluck.
 
Why are you scared? You have done nothing wrong. Do not answer any questions, as already pointed out discuss any questions with an attorney. goodluck.
Actually for a period of time a couple years ago she was doctor shopping and obtaining the same narcotic pain medication from two different doctors without one knowing what the other was doing. This is a felony. So she was doing something wrong and has something to worry about.

Follow the advice given in the original reply to your post (by tranquility). That is the best course of action. Consider working with an addiction specialist to wean yourself off of the pain meds. They will make your pain worse over time. You can live life without opiates.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Actually for a period of time a couple years ago she was doctor shopping and obtaining the same narcotic pain medication from two different doctors without one knowing what the other was doing. This is a felony. So she was doing something wrong and has something to worry about.

Follow the advice given in the original reply to your post (by tranquility). That is the best course of action. Consider working with an addiction specialist to wean yourself off of the pain meds. They will make your pain worse over time. You can live life without opiates.
OP never stated that.
I will, however, acknowledge that the OP implied it.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Zigner -

Why don't you learn how to read or work on improving your memory?
Our OP did not specifically say that s/he was getting the same pain meds from both doctors.

Apology accepted.


ETA: Heck, the OP didn't even say they were narcotics
 
Our OP did not specifically say that s/he was getting the same pain meds from both doctors.

Apology accepted.


ETA: Heck, the OP didn't even say they were narcotics
Zigner - I apologize, it's true OP left out the word "same." It's a shame drug addicts aren't as precise as you would like them to be and you are too dense to read between the lines.
 

dave33

Senior Member
Actually for a period of time a couple years ago she was doctor shopping and obtaining the same narcotic pain medication from two different doctors without one knowing what the other was doing. This is a felony. So she was doing something wrong and has something to worry about.

Follow the advice given in the original reply to your post (by tranquility). That is the best course of action. Consider working with an addiction specialist to wean yourself off of the pain meds. They will make your pain worse over time. You can live life without opiates.
The o.p. never said same. It would have to be exactly the same. The insurance4 company will not pay for the exact same medication twice in one month. Many people and doctors prescribe different milligrams to get more of the same drug. This is not illegal, and is often done so the patient has some "breakthrough"meds. If they are getting 1000 milligrams of hyrocodone (vicodin) mixed with 350 milligrams acetomenaphin (asprin) it is not unusual to also have a prescription of 750 milligrams of hydrocodone with 500 milligrams of asprin in the same month. This is done often so the patient takes the smaller dose when the pain is less severe. Paqin management is handled in many different ways. So, the o.p. would have to get the same med, have one pharmacy use the insurance and claim no insurance at the other pharmacy. This is unlikely.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
It has to be the same or similar.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/f617ed03-1c84-4cb4-9f65-c4ae020bb112/11-01--Doctor-Shopping-Statute.aspx
11-01: Doctor Shopping Statute
Case: Knipp v. State, 35 FLW D2898a

Date: December 22, 2010

Subject: "Doctor Shopping" statute is violated when a patient seeks a prescription and then fails to inform the doctor that he or she has already obtained a prescription for the same or similar controlled substance within the last 30 days, EVEN IF the doctor did not specifically ask the patient whether they had done so

FACTS: The defendant, Jeremy Knipp, obtained a prescription from a physician, and within thirty days of obtaining the first prescription, obtained another prescription for the same controlled substance from a different physician without informing the second doctor of the first visit. There was no proof that the defendant affirmatively mislead the physician, or that the physician ever asked Knipp if he had received a prescription from another doctor. The defendant was arrested under Florida's "withholding information from a medical practitioner" law, 893.13(7)(a)8, Florida Statutes. The charge included an allegation that the defendant specifically requested the controlled substance from the doctor, and failed to inform the doctor of the prior prescription. The defense moved to dismiss the charge, arguing that the defendant did not affirmatively lie to the doctor, and also arguing that the statute in question does not impose an affirmative duty on a patient to disclose prior prescriptions if the doctor does not ask about them. The trial court held that there was no requirement that a patient first be asked about prior prescriptions in order to have violated the "doctor shopping" statute, and denied the motion. The defendant was convicted, and this appeal ensued.

RULING: The Fourth District Court of Appeal agreed with the trial court and upheld the conviction.

DISCUSSION: The court explained that the plain language of the statute required a person who seeks or requests a controlled substance to inform the physician if the person has already obtained a prescription for the same or similar substance within the last 30 days, and that the statute did not qualify this duty by requiring an affirmative request for the information by the doctor. Since the defendant did not contest that portion of charge which alleged that he actually requested the prescription, the plain language of the statute was satisfied, and the conviction was proper.

COMMENTS: Note that according to the holding in this case, it is necessary for the state to prove that the defendant actively sought or requested a prescription for the same or similar controlled substance in order for the "affirmative duty to disclose" to apply. Investigators should keep this element in mind when conducting investigations of this nature.

Also of interest is the fact that the defendant was also charged with trafficking in this case, because the quantity of controlled substance he received with the second prescription exceeded the trafficking threshold for that drug, and the state alleged that he received the drugs illegally because of the "doctor shopping" violation. Both the trial and appellate courts rejected this position, however, holding that since the defendant did in fact possess a valid prescription for the drug obtained from a licensed physician in the normal course of business, the "valid prescription defense" contained in 499.03, Florida Statutes was applicable. "Doctor shopping" charge upheld, trafficking charge dismissed.

John E. Kemner
Regional Legal Advisor
Florida Department of Law Enforcement
Jacksonville Regional Operations Center
Info edit:For those who think the similar language is not material, Florida Statute Section 893.13(7)(a), provides that it is unlawful for any person:

8. To withhold information from a practitioner from whom the person seeks to obtain a controlled substance or a prescription for a controlled substance that the person making the request has received a controlled substance or a prescription for a controlled substance of like therapeutic use from another practitioner within the previous 30 days.

9. To acquire or obtain, or attempt to acquire or obtain, possession of a controlled substance by misrepresentation, fraud, forgery, deception, or subterfuge.
 
Last edited:

ajkroy

Member
Besides, those who are skilled at doctor shopping rarely use insurance to pay for their prescriptions.

Acetominophen is generic for tylenol. Overdose of acetominophen is a serious thing, and patients should not take more than the maximum dosage, even for "breakthrough" pain.

I also call bull that the OP wasn't aware that obtaining scripts from multiple docs was wrong until "someone" told her. Pain management clinic contracts are usually very specific against such a thing. OP should follow tranq's advice and not give LE any more evidence against him/her.
 

dave33

Senior Member
Acetaminophen is NOT aspirin.

I see you've now demonstrated something else you know nothing about.

Are you seriously so worked up into a frenzy that you cannot stop yourself from nitpicking irrelevent details.
You have obviously strayed far off the meaning.
 

dave33

Senior Member
Besides, those who are skilled at doctor shopping rarely use insurance to pay for their prescriptions.

Acetominophen is generic for tylenol. Overdose of acetominophen is a serious thing, and patients should not take more than the maximum dosage, even for "breakthrough" pain.

I also call bull that the OP wasn't aware that obtaining scripts from multiple docs was wrong until "someone" told her. Pain management clinic contracts are usually very specific against such a thing. OP should follow tranq's advice and not give LE any more evidence against him/her.
Jeepers creepers I was using the acetominophen/vicodin as an example. The exact medication was not provided. Although, the point was made.
 

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