Drunk in Public Question

[tristina]

What is the name of your state? California

Last Friday, I was arrested (drug out of a crowd at a concert festival) and charged with drunk in public. I was released from jail the next morning and told I would not be required to appear in court. I have a few questions:

1) Will I be fined for this charge? I was not advised that I would be, but I can't find any information online about this.

2) Is it legal that they charged me with this crime when they never even did a breath or blood analysis to confirm that I had alcohol in my system?

3) If I do try to argue the charge, will I have to appear in court to do so? I was in San Diego when charged, but I live in Sacramento.

Any help would be appreciated, even if you can't answer all the questions. I've spent hours searching online and am not finding anything on this. Thank you!

P.S. I'm also planning on filing a complaint against the arresting officer because he was more than rough and inappropriate (I am covered in bruises and scrapes), so any advice on that would be great too! Thanks so much!What is the name of your state?

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by tristina

Last Friday, I was arrested (drug out of a crowd at a concert festival) and charged with drunk in public. I was released from jail the next morning and told I would not be required to appear in court.

Then you were released pursuant to PC 849(b) and your arrest was considered a detention under the law and no further proceedings are desired. That's GOOD.

1) Will I be fined for this charge? I was not advised that I would be, but I can't find any information online about this.

Not if you were released pursuant to 849(b).

2) Is it legal that they charged me with this crime when they never even did a breath or blood analysis to confirm that I had alcohol in my system?

Yes. All that is required is alcohol or drugs, and your behavior. If they smelled the alcohol, saw it, you admitted to it, etc., that is sufficient.

3) If I do try to argue the charge, will I have to appear in court to do so? I was in San Diego when charged, but I live in Sacramento.

If you were charged, you'd have to go to San Diego. Lucky for you San Diego rarely prosecutes public intoxication unless there are numerous priors. However, you were not charged so it's moot.

P.S. I'm also planning on filing a complaint against the arresting officer because he was more than rough and inappropriate (I am covered in bruises and scrapes), so any advice on that would be great too! Thanks so much!What is the name of your state?

You will have to submit a complaint in writing or in person to the San Diego Police Department's Internal Affairs unit. [URL="http://www.sandiego.gov/police/help/comments.shtml"](See this link)[/URL]

In general, a complaint regarding a drunk being arrested by the cops is not going to go very far, but you have the lawful right to do so.

- Carl

[ENortham]

Why serve alcohol at public venues if being drunk in public is a crime?!

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by ENortham

Why serve alcohol at public venues if being drunk in public is a crime?!

One can drink and not get drunk ... at least most of us can. It's called 'moderation'.

It is not unlawful to have been drinking, just to have consumed alcohol and be in such a state as you are not able to care for the safety of yourself or others (usually evidenced by stumbling, fighting, etc.).

- Carl

[garrula lingua]

You should have been charged with PC647(f), if you're looking for the statute...

All that has to be proved is the symptomology the Officer/Deputy noted: red, watery eyes, odor of alcohol, slurred speech, unsteady on feet, visible urine or vomit stains, possibly incoherence, etc.

The standard of proof is (paraphrasing): unable to care for himself or his own welfare - a nebulous standard.

The Prosecutor has a year to file this charge.
Beef the cop, and the charge will probably (& legally, can) be filed.

Sometimes, when alcohol is involved, people don't realize that their voices are louder & they aren't behaving as normal (were you ruining the concert for others ? why were you singled out ?).

If this was at a concert & beer was being sold, there must have been lots of people to chose.
My guess is that only the really sloshed ones got hauled in.
C'mon, this is a great concert memory for your grandkids. Lighten up.

Be prepared at trial (if there is one) for several cops, including the jailer to testify about how sloshed you were, what you said, and what you looked and smelled like (in my area, usually only the ones who urinate or vomit on themselves are hauled away).

[CdwJava]

Having worked as a cop there, I can tell you with reasonable certainty that this is the end of it ... provided what you said was true. Unless you raise a stink, the cops - and the system - will soon forget you were ever there.


- Carl

[tristina]

Originally Posted by garrula lingua

Beef the cop, and the charge will probably (& legally, can) be filed.

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Unless you raise a stink, the cops - and the system - will soon forget you were ever there.

Am I to understand from both of these statements that if I file a complaint against the officer, I might be opening myself up to further charges out of retaliation? I looked up PC647(f) and it appears that this is in regards to people who have been mulitple offenders. This is the first time I've ever been charged with ANYTHING...I don't even have a traffic ticket on my record. Thanks...just wanted to clairfy what you were saying.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by tristina

Am I to understand from both of these statements that if I file a complaint against the officer, I might be opening myself up to further charges out of retaliation? I looked up PC647(f) and it appears that this is in regards to people who have been mulitple offenders. This is the first time I've ever been charged with ANYTHING...I don't even have a traffic ticket on my record. Thanks...just wanted to clairfy what you were saying.

Yes.

If you were told that no court appearance was required, they likely gave you a release document from the county jail that indicated release pursuant to PC 849(b)(2):

849(b) Any peace officer may release from custody, instead of taking
such person before a magistrate, any person arrested without a
warrant whenever:

(2) The person arrested was arrested for intoxication only, and no
further proceedings are desirable.

And PC 647(f) states:

647. Every person who commits any of the following acts is guilty
of disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor:

(f) Who is found in any public place under the influence of
intoxicating liquor, any drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any
combination of any intoxicating liquor, drug, controlled substance,
or toluene, in a condition that he or she is unable to exercise care
for his or her own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of
his or her being under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any
drug, controlled substance, toluene, or any combination of any
intoxicating liquor, drug, or toluene, interferes with or obstructs
or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public
way.

Filing a complaint against the officer MIGHT open you up to a criminal complaint, but in practice that just is not likely to happen - especially if you were released pursuant to PC 849(b)(2). Again, my experience in San Diego was that this crime was no generally prosecuted and I also know of officers who obtained complaints as a result of PI arrests and charges were not later leveled. Not to mention the fact that the SDPD (or whatever agency you were involved with there) does not want to be accused of wrongdoing to try and suppress a complaint.

Unless you have a clear memory of the events and the officers' actions, it just might not be worthwhile to even take the chance. If you truly were acting out and had to be hauled away while yelling. pulling, or hitting the officer(s), then nothing will come of it. But if you were gratuitously slugged or beaten without cause, then they would like to hear about it.

Just keep in mind that the chance of any discipline coming down are between slim and none based solely on what you have written so far. It comes down to you saying the officer was wrong, and the officer (and others) saying you were drunk.

- Carl

[2901bruce]

Originally Posted by tristina

What is the name of your state? California

Last Friday, I was arrested (drug out of a crowd at a concert festival) and charged with drunk in public. I was released from jail the next morning and told I would not be required to appear in court. I have a few questions:

1) Will I be fined for this charge? I was not advised that I would be, but I can't find any information online about this.

2) Is it legal that they charged me with this crime when they never even did a breath or blood analysis to confirm that I had alcohol in my system?

3) If I do try to argue the charge, will I have to appear in court to do so? I was in San Diego when charged, but I live in Sacramento.

Any help would be appreciated, even if you can't answer all the questions. I've spent hours searching online and am not finding anything on this. Thank you!

P.S. I'm also planning on filing a complaint against the arresting officer because he was more than rough and inappropriate (I am covered in bruises and scrapes), so any advice on that would be great too! Thanks so much!What is the name of your state?

Look, you got off easy! How did the police know that you were drunk? Fighting, stumbling, or disrobing?? Oh, and you were covered in bruises? If the cops arrested you for being drunk in public - you probably fell on your own. You're off with basically an arrest/warning. Walk away & chalk it up to experience. I also live in Sacramento. So when we meet & go out to dinner - you get the "Virgin Mary" (LOL).

[tristina]

The cop would say I was stumbling, but I wasn't.....at least not from alcohol. The crowd turned into an out of control mosh pit and I was trying to get out of it. I kept getting knocked down by people who were trying to rush the stage, which is when I got dragged out of the crowd and was told I was too drunk to be there. I had 2 drinks. Believe me, I'm a girl who can hold a LOT more alcohol than that. I was NOT drunk.

The bruises are from a) when the officer grabbed me by my arm and threw me on the ground (there's a scratch too), b) the handcuffs being SO tight, c) the zipties being so tight my hands went completely numb, and d)when I was kneeling on the apshalt and he kept telling me to get up and I couldn't because I was cuffed and wouldn't help me; I kept trying to push up with the tops of my feet.

I certainly don't want to risk getting further charges added (especially way down in San Diego), but it's complete bull **** that they can get away with this crap. And the little remarks he kept making (like, "oh, this must be tough for a rich little white girl") are completely uncalled for.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by tristina

The bruises are from a) when the officer grabbed me by my arm and threw me on the ground (there's a scratch too)

Not always unreasonable force. And a bruise isn't likely to excite an attorney though it might earn him a reprimand from his supervisor.

b) the handcuffs being SO tight

As we tell people: They are not worn for comfort. Unfortunately, women have tiny wrists so we have to click them down a little tighter than we might a male ... I have had only one male escape cuffs and he was high on PCP (crushed his bones to get out) ... I have had a few women slip out of them.

c) the zipties being so tight my hands went completely numb, and

Not good. But was there any permanent damage?

d)when I was kneeling on the apshalt and he kept telling me to get up and I couldn't because I was cuffed and wouldn't help me; I kept trying to push up with the tops of my feet.

It sometimes happens. They aren't valets.

I certainly don't want to risk getting further charges added (especially way down in San Diego), but it's complete bull **** that they can get away with this crap. And the little remarks he kept making (like, "oh, this must be tough for a rich little white girl") are completely uncalled for.

You can certainly make a complaint to the agency (whichever agency it was). And I never saw charges appear from a 647(f) release pursuant to 849(b) as a result of a complaint. I doubt that would happen.

- Carl

[garrula lingua]

kept getting knocked down by people who were trying to rush the stage

??bruised fom the cops or from the crowd ?
It would be hard to distinquish bruises & scratches.

Heck of a concert story. So, how was the band ?

Check with a civil rights attorney, as to whether you have a case.

PS: I have seen people released on 849(b) by a cop and charges are, later, filed by the Prosecutor.

Filing decisions are made by the Prosecutor. Many Prosecutors 'reach out' for police reports, especially Doestic Violence, and file charges after a cop released 849(b).

The decision to file charges belongs to the Prosecutor.
The cop investigates and presents the case.

Carl, is the law still in effect where cops can file small claims cases against people who beef them without a basis ? LAPD were doing that; I don't know if it stopped.

OP: Was there a tape of you at any time during this incident ?
Be sure to be accurate in anything you say.

OP: talk to a lawyer and see what s/he advises.

[CdwJava]

From experience in San Diego County in these circumstances, the DA does not file for PI arrests. In fact, we had people with 80+ 647(f) arrests that they would not prosecute. SD County rarely prosecutes them simply because it would clog their courts and I guess they had decided that it would be pointless. Most agencies there also have contracts with private sobriety and counseling organizations, so the arrests then become for PC 647(g) and are thus detentions and not a criminal offense.

However, they WOULD prosecute if the agency requested prosecution ... but that was rarely done except for extreme circumstances.

Carl, is the law still in effect where cops can file small claims cases against people who beef them without a basis ? LAPD were doing that; I don't know if it stopped.

Yes. However (and slightly O.T.), PC 148.6 (the law making it a crime to knowingly file false claims against a cop) while upheld by the CA S.C. was overturned by the 9th Circuit last year. In July, the CA A.G. issued an opinion saying we could still give the admonishment about false allegations of misconduct as the section requires, but many of our attorneys are telling us to get rid of the admonishment as required per 148.6 because it would have a chilling effect by threatening to file charges in a matter that we could not legally file as it is unconstitutional and thus making the officer(s) liable under 42 USC 1983 ... we're still scratching our heads here.

In general, the civil suits in small claims courts are still good. But, with 148.6 in question there is some thought that the civil suits might be in a very gray area as well. ANd no one wants to be the civil test case.

But, every few months we read about an officer winning a case of false allegations as he pulls out his handy dandy recorder!

OP: Was there a tape of you at any time during this incident ?
Be sure to be accurate in anything you say.

Most of us carry nice handy-dandy digital recorders these days. Mine holds an hour's worth of conversation and a number of photos ... I have another one that is wireless and holds up to 5 hours of high quality audio. I issue my officers one that holds 4 hours o high quality audio and 16 hours of low quality.

Most cops carry these ... not all of them use them. But, you just don't know.

If it were me, I would leave sleeping dogs lie and remember not to go to any mosh pits again. Events with masses of people are problems waiting to happen.


- Carl