I messed up again. Big time.

[drunkypants]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I was arrested this morning for my second DUI. Like the previous DUI, I blew ~.2 during the field breathalyzer test. Unlike the first DUI, I managed to damage some property(thankfully no persons were involved) during my drunken joyride and was charged with a hit and run as well.

I cannot begin to describe how disgusted I am with myself at the moment. Not only did I make the same mistake WHILE on probation for my first offense, I went above and beyond, tacking extras on to my DUI charge.

I am a nervous wreck at the moment and am just looking for some idea of what penalties I should expect to encounter. I mean, is there any hope of attaining a restricted license without waiting a year? And, more importantly, how do I go about reporting this to my insurance company?

Please help me.

 

[FlyingRon]

There's 96 hours of mandatory jail time (depending on the county this may be converted to community service or it might even be longer in the tank). There's no way around the two year suspension or the one year prohibition on getting a restricted license. You'll need the interlock as well.

The hit and run is $1000 fine and/or six months.

You'll need a good lawyer.

 

[HighwayMan]

And, more importantly, how do I go about reporting this to my insurance company?

The same way you would report any accident. Call them.

 

[drunkypants]

FlyingRon, HighwayMan: thanks for the expedient responses.

I have spent the past day thinking about my actions and reached the conclusion that I am, in fact, an alcoholic and I need help to recover from this sickness.

I plan on attending local Alcoholics Anonymous meetings three or more times a week beginning this evening at 7:00pm. On another forum (the name eludes me at the moment) a poster suggested I should bring a personal notepad to record the topics discussed during the meeting as well as collect a signature or two to prove that I was actually in attendance. Is this a good call or not?

Is there any other advice you can offer so that when the time comes for my hearing I can at least show that I acknowledge I have a serious problem and that I AM willing to do whatever it takes to free myself from the clutches of alcoholism?

 

[CdwJava]

Some local AA groups will not sign attendance cards or the like. There are problems with "anonymous" people signing a document as it potentially subjects attendance records to subpoena or even subjects the secretary to subpoena. Many groups avoid this by not signing cards, confirming attendance, etc.

You might be able to get some proof of attendance, but it will depend on the local group.

 

[Ladyback1]

FlyingRon, HighwayMan: thanks for the expedient responses.

I have spent the past day thinking about my actions and reached the conclusion that I am, in fact, an alcoholic and I need help to recover from this sickness.

I plan on attending local Alcoholics Anonymous meetings three or more times a week beginning this evening at 7:00pm. On another forum (the name eludes me at the moment) a poster suggested I should bring a personal notepad to record the topics discussed during the meeting as well as collect a signature or two to prove that I was actually in attendance. Is this a good call or not?

Is there any other advice you can offer so that when the time comes for my hearing I can at least show that I acknowledge I have a serious problem and that I AM willing to do whatever it takes to free myself from the clutches of alcoholism?

Going to AA is good.
However, you probably won't get signatures--it's anonymous (you might get signature if you obtain a sponsor). Asking others to document that you were there is intrusive to them, and it can give off an air of you just going through the motions.

While you need some sort of intervention, you also don't want to appear as you are just going to try and get out of the consequences of your actions. You want to go to AA or Al-Anon or some other anonymous group because you want help.

I'd suggest you find a therapist or a licensed addiction counselor and seek help that way (and it will be verifiable by the court once you provide an authorization to release PHI)

 

[arsenic]

Seeking treatment for alcoholism is a good idea, regardless of the legal issues.

I went to a couple of (court-ordered) AA meetings, and in both about a quarter of the attendees had papers that the secretary/moderator sign.

Personally, I don't see why any AA chapters go along with this, except perhaps in the hope that a few forced sessions would lead to longer-term voluntary attendance for a few. Aside from legal liability, there is no proof that court-ordered AA meetings do any good at all. AA should just refuse to acquiesce in being assistants to the courts,

 

[arsenic]

"Going to AA is good."

Maybe. The evidence is equivocal.


"However, you probably won't get signatures--it's anonymous (you might get signature if you obtain a sponsor). Asking others to document that you were there is intrusive to them, and it can give off an air of you just going through the motions."

A lot of AA chapters will sign off on court papers. It seems to me that this is contrary to AA's raison d'etre, but some courts still insist on AA attendance. (Technically, you can go to AA or spend time in jail.)

The reality is: there is no good treatment for alcoholism. None. I think that voluntary attendance at AA is as good as doing nothing, so it is worth a try. Also, with no treatment, many alcoholics get better.

Good luck.







While you need some sort of intervention, you also don't want to appear as you are just going to try and get out of the consequences of your actions. You want to go to AA or Al-Anon or some other anonymous group because you want help.

I'd suggest you find a therapist or a licensed addiction counselor and seek help that way (and it will be verifiable by the court once you provide an authorization to release PHI)[/QUOTE]

 

[Ladyback1]

"Going to AA is good."

Maybe. The evidence is equivocal.


"However, you probably won't get signatures--it's anonymous (you might get signature if you obtain a sponsor). Asking others to document that you were there is intrusive to them, and it can give off an air of you just going through the motions."

A lot of AA chapters will sign off on court papers. It seems to me that this is contrary to AA's raison d'etre, but some courts still insist on AA attendance. (Technically, you can go to AA or spend time in jail.)

The reality is: there is no good treatment for alcoholism. None. I think that voluntary attendance at AA is as good as doing nothing, so it is worth a try. Also, with no treatment, many alcoholics get better.

Good luck.







While you need some sort of intervention, you also don't want to appear as you are just going to try and get out of the consequences of your actions. You want to go to AA or Al-Anon or some other anonymous group because you want help.

I'd suggest you find a therapist or a licensed addiction counselor and seek help that way (and it will be verifiable by the court once you provide an authorization to release PHI)

[/QUOTE]

Can you please provide what studies you are citing? Also, what is the relapse rate of those who just get better on their own?

 

[arsenic]

Can you please provide what studies you are citing? Also, what is the relapse rate of those who just get better on their own?[/QUOTE]

When I got my DUI, I did a lot of literature review, and talked to a few of my psychiatric colleagues. Studies are readily Googable, and opinions are my own.

By its very nature of anonymity and fluidity of attendance, AA is poorly subjected to scientific analysis. There is scant evidence that AA works, though it is probable that voluntary attendance will help maintain sobriety over the long term.

AA/12-step programs are the default treatment, because there is no good alternative. Also, AA meetings are free, ubiquitous, and considered the norm.

There are no good treatments for alcoholism. None.

In practically every study comparing treatment vs. placebo, many (50%) will get better. In longitudinal follow-ups, about 1/4 of alcoholics will be better at 10 years.

 

[FlyingRon]

Can you please provide what studies you are citing? Also, what is the relapse rate of those who just get better on their own?[/QUOTE]

Google it. It is quite true. AA success rates are no better than those who do not seek treatment at all.

If AA gives you the help you need, I'm all for it, but frankly the legal status of compelling people to enter AA or giving them some sort of credit for doing so is somewhat illusory.

 

[CdwJava]

The benefit of such programs is not that they cure you - because they do not - but, that they give a person seeking to help themselves the encouragement to keep trying to remain sober for just one more day.

Forcing someone to enter treatment is pointless because until they are ready to accept that they have a problem, no treatment is going to stick. This is a key element of any 12-step program.

Because AA/NA tend to be rather decentralized, each chapter is left to their own devices on issues such as the signing of attendance cards or sheets, and whether they accept court-ordered attendees. Some do not because the court attendees actually pull some of their members down. I know of an instance where an attendee who would sit through a meeting and would then get a few people to go bar hopping with her.

But, the issue here is not whether or not AA is effective, but whether or not attendance will benefit the OP. I say that if the OP is ready to acknowledge that he HAS a problem and wants to start getting some help, AA might be a good idea. If all he wants is something to wave at a court, he might instead want to seek professional counseling.

 

[dave33]

AA/NA is like anything else, it's what you make of it. Alcohol and drinking is a way of life for some and it's what they do. Meetings are not a cure, but rather they give a newly sober person an activity which will hopefully lead them to not drink. It surrounds you with people that are goiung through or have gone through the same issues as you.Many newly sober people have a hard time finding something to do, this is very dangerous. In meetings you meet positive people and learn what things will help your sobriety.
Statistics li9ke any drug/alcohol sysem are4 not good. Addiction is something that no cure exists for.An alcoholis using the stats for an excuse nnot to go, is someone whose chances are4 not good. Not becauise the meeting would cure them but because they have to be open minded and try and find the positive. "Cognitive restructuring" is something that meeting can help with. To not get some sort of help is almost a sure way to fail.
A letter or signed meeting slips carries little weight in court. They are so easily forged. There is also no way to see if it is real. It is positive and can work for anyone if that person haas a desire to succeed.goodluck.

 

[commentator]

The kind of remorse exhibited by OP "drunky pants" here lasts about 48 hours. It is deeply connected with being very very sorry he has been caught, and being in very deep stuff with his family, his employer, his insurance, which will, if it is not already very expensive, will be come much more so, his life actually. If, during this time, he gets himself into a treatment program of some kind, it may actually do some good. Seeing a counselor is hard to judge. most of them do not claim to provide alcohol treatment with counseling alone.
Likewise, AA meetings alone carry very little weight.

A stint in in-patient treatment and 90 meetings in 90 days would look quite good, but very few courts are impressed by "Yes, I hit a couple of meetings, I'm well now and I'm very very sorry." (even if someone signed a paper for you there.)

I'll bet arsenic is posting based on subjective information, it didn't work for them or someone they know. There are thousands of people who would have subjective information disagreeing with these blanket statements. However, alcoholism is not cured, you are either practicing or you are not. If you attend meetings it can help you not be a practicing alcoholic.

But I'm not at all sure this OP wants anything but a do-over of the night he screwed up, and that does not come from attending a few AA meetings. A very good attorney is your best bet, and I wouldn't be surprised if his/her advice included a treatment program of some type.

 

[arsenic]

....SNIP...... It is positive and can work for anyone if that person haas a desire to succeed..

We are wandering far afield, so this is my last post on the subject.

One would never say about, for example, hypertension that a treatment would work if only that person had a desire to succeed. Yet this tautological reasoning (if it works, it proves that the person really worked the Steps; if not, that person just didn't try) is standard in the Recovery business.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that AA doesn't work, since by its very nature it is not amenable to scientific study. I personally think that its main value is to provide a non-drinking social environment. Like I said, it is free, it is everywhere, and most alcohol treatment programs funnel their clients into AA/NA anyways.

My comments about treatment efficacy are based on the medical literature, not subjective impressions. In fact, if I go on the heroic stories I hear at AA meetings, I would have expected a very high success rate.

Getting back to legal issues, I think the courts have ruled that miscreants cannot be forced into AA classes, but they can be offered as an option in sentencing. In effect, the courts says, "Go to AA or jail", which sounds legally dubious to me. Adding to the morass is that many AA meetings are overtly religious. In both of my meetings (in coastal CA, not exactly a hotbed of religious fundamentalism), there were frequent references to God and Jesus. I can't believe that this is constitutionally defensible, and it is just a matter of time that forced AA attendance be in front of the Appeals Courts again.