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Thread: 504 Violation

  1. #1
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    504 Violation

    SC

    My son had a 504 plan, because he is ADHD, which was put in place when he was in the 6th grade. He is now in the 11th grade. In Jan. of 2005 the guidance counselor called him to her office to discuss his 504. This was the first time the high school even acknowledged his 504 and he had been there since August of 2003. My son told the guidance counselor he felt he did not need it. She called me and told me about the conversation and she said it looked like everything had been going well. In her opinion it looked like it would be ok to end it and if I agreed I would need to sign the paper to end it. I said ok because everything had been going well.

    My son got into trouble before the Christmas holidays and was recommended for expulsion. I believed my son no longer had a 504, as did the school. The hearing took place on Jan. 24 in front of the schools disciplinary board. We were given their decision the following morning. My son was able to stay in school on strict probation. He was kicked off the bus for the remainder of the year and has Saturday school every other Sat. for the rest of the year. He has a list of rules he canít break which include no talking in class or getting out of seat for the rest of the year. These would be difficult for anyone but may be unreasonable to expect this from a kid with ADHD. We signed the papers agreeing to the rules. The following day the principle, who was not a part of the hearing, called me to tell me my son could not participate in extracurricular activities. He knew my son had all state auditions for band in 3 days. Getting a call back to audition for state is a huge accomplishment and very difficult to achieve. The band directors from colleges scout the state auditions and offer scholarships. This man knew he was taking this opportunity from my son. He said my son would be a bad representative for the school. These auditions are completely anonymous. The kids have numbers. They have a curtain between them and the judges. They do not know the students name, school or district and my son was certainly not going to announce he was on school probation. Iím very upset that the principle has taken away this opportunity from my son. He also has taken away all after school activities with the band. Being ADHD my son needs an outlet and band keeps kids very busy so there is less of a chance for trouble.

    The school had not provided the services under 504 for the first year and a half my son was there. The only time they addressed his 504 was when the guidance counselor told me she thought it would be ok to end it. My husband went to the school on Friday and got a copy of everything in his 504 plan. That is when we found out that I never signed anything deactivating his 504. The only thing in the folder about ending it was a hand written note from the counselor that she had spoken to me and would need for me to sign the paper work. So his 504 was active through this whole process. The school never even looked in his folder before proceeding with the hearing to make sure the paperwork was in order. During the hearing we brought up the fact that my son never received services under his 504 since being in high school. His plan from middle school followed him but the high school never acknowledged it until half way through his sophomore year. The Vice Principle stood up and said the mother had requested to end his 504. I said thatís not right, I never requested to end it. Lots of people got excited and said this meeting is over. When I tried to speak they said donít say anything send your son to school tomorrow and they would go over his 504 and address this issue at a latter time. I convinced them to let me say something and I told them I signed the paper to end it but it was not requested by me, it was suggested by the counselor. They said the hearing could proceed. I have a terrible memory and only remember the conversation with the counselor and did not remember that I never received any paperwork to sign. His act was impulsive which is related to his disability. Because the school did not follow correct procedure under 504, I realize we will be going through some legal stuff. Is there anything we can do because the principle kept my son from an opportunity to receive a college scholarship? We pleaded with him for 2 days, which was all the time we had, about the importance of him going. The only thing he said was ďI stand by my decisionĒ.
    Last edited by rtbrain; 01-28-2006 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Forgot to include state
  2. #2
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    In most cases, these exceptional opportunities have certain criteria to be eligible to take the test, one of which might be to be in good standing at school of attendence. Call the Band administraiton and inquire if a child being on probation at school would exclude their participation in the competition.

    A 504 plan is not a get out of jail card for inappropriate behavior.

    Appeal the decision, but it is not an unreasonable punishment.
  3. #3
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    You are right and he does deserve to be punished for his actions. The problem is the school did not take the steps that they are suppose to under the 504. They were suppose to have a manifestation committee look into the matter first and determine if his actions were related to his disability. They never even checked his 504 folder to make sure everything was in order. Not having the signed paper by me ending the 504 puts the school in a bad spot.

    What the principle took away can not be replaced. The audition was this morning. They do not have makeup auditions. The opportunity for a scholarship is gone. He does have next year but to qualify for state audition is very difficult and there is no guarantee he will make it next year. The principle did not stop him from auditioning for region. The V.P. had already agreed to work with us on any conflicts that came up with band. When the principle found out about it he stopped my son from going. He only gave us 2 days notice before the audition to fight it. We tried our best but time ran out and he refused to let my son go. My son had ample punishment. It was out of meanness that this man did this. We tried to reason with him but he is like a dictator. He was not a part of the discipline process and it was not mandatory for my son to loose that privilege. The book said that privileges may be taken away not that privileges must be taken away. This man had a choice and his choice was to stop a kid from doing something positive. He wants to put extra time into a kidís hand that has ADHD and the consequences of that could be terrible.
  4. #4
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    The 504 plan doesn't protect you child from the consequences of repeated and intentional exposure of his butt and what ever else shows on school or private property. ADHD is not an excuse for that behavior and you are lucky that he is not expelled from school. Your son could have a different disorder that might explain such behavior but since you don't take him to get reevaluated and even so, the school is within their rights to not have a student who may have to register as sexual offender representing the school. The probation and restrictions was because of your son's behavior, not because of his ADHD. I have taught students with IQ's of less than 60 who know not to repeatedly moon people and know there is a consequence for their behavior.
  5. #5
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    He received adequate punishment and I never said he should not be punished. The point is he had a 504 in place and because the school was not smart enough to check his folder they skipped a very important part of the process. Did I say 504 was an excuse? I never said anything to that effect. But one of the services my son was supposed to be receiving was working on social skills from guidance. That means if he had received those services it is possible that he may have made some better choices. We will never know if that is the case because the school failed to give him services he was entitled to. Yes my son should be punished for his actions and he has been. The school certainly needs to be responsible for their inactions. If my son did not get the services that he was supposed to by federal law, than how many other kids at the school are not getting services they need?

    The point is, the punishment was handed down by the discipline board and we signed the paper agreeing to that punishment. The next day the principle finds out my son made state call backs and he added this punishment. Is he allowed to add to the punishment that had already been agreed on and papers signed? If the paper we signed had that my son could not audition we would not have signed it. Can he add something new as he pleases?

    My son has ADHD, not the disease you referred to in the original post. He has been evaluated by psychiatrist and psychologist. He has had an in-depth evaluation from a teaching hospital, which is rated as a top facility in the US. I have faith in their diagnosis, not yours. He sees a doctor, who I trust, every 3 months. Donít go insinuating that I do not take care of my childís needs.
  6. #6
    notsmartmark is offline Member
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    I think you should speak with OCR about filing a complaint. The school's actions are of concern if your description is correct. You need to walk a balance between letting your son know his behavior is totally unacceptable while pursuing your complaint.

    I would suggest you speak to the school in a non-threatening way to let them know you are going to pursue it, but would like to find a resolve before going to that step. I think they might change their position.

    Here's OCR's website:
    [url]http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/howto.html?src=rt[/url]
  7. #7
    sisymay is offline Member
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    I think you should ask in writing for the schools policy on how they handle keeping kids from doing extra curricular activities. It sounds like he is making this up as he goes along. Can you contact an advocate? All states have a federally funded advocacy agency to help parents for free. Also, there is a great website with many understanding parents who can help. YOu sign up on their website for free to post on their messageboard
    [url]www.schwablearning.org[/url]
    That is by far the best board I have found for help with school problems.
    They can tell you what you can do!
  8. #8
    sisymay is offline Member
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    I have found this site to be very critical. This is a legal site and if this is how the legal profession acts, then you can see why it's no good.
  9. #9
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you notsmartmark and sismay. I appreciate the help and will check into the info.

    I was sure there must be people here willing to help. I just had to get through the one who is here to criticize and judge.
  10. #10
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtbrain
    Thank you notsmartmark and sismay. I appreciate the help and will check into the info.

    I was sure there must be people here willing to help. I just had to get through the one who is here to criticize and judge.
    I am not critizing or judging you. I am telling you that you do your son no favors protecting him because there will come a day when you can't do that any longer and he will end up in prison for something stupid.

    Please if you love your son, take him and get him reevaluated, if you ask his treating psychiatrist, they will agree that not all children diagnosed with ADHD over 10 years ago, actually have ADHD, no matter where they were diagnosed, and it is appropriate to reevaluate periodically. What harm is there is asking?

    YOU have responsibility for your child's health, all aspects and for his behavior. You can't contuinually blame this on the schools.

    You are the one not getting it, which is even more reason to get your son reevaluated. If not the criminal justice system will so it for you in a few years. Then, who will you blame?
  11. #11
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    My son is being punished. I have said more than once that I agree that he should punished. I do love my son. I have never blamed anything on the schools. My son has been held accountable for mooning the bus driver. I did look at the website for Aspergers and my son does not fit the description. His vocabulary score on his IQ test is in the superior intelligence range. His speech is not peculiar. He does not isolate himself socially, quite the opposite, he is very outgoing. Clumsiness has never been a problem; he has always had excellent coordination. He is very good at sports of all kinds. Currently he plays football and surfs. He is a very talented saxophone player. I assure you my son is ADHD and does not exhibit any symptoms of Aspergers. He did something really stupid, like many teenagers do and he is being punished. Iím not trying to get him off the hook. The school did not give him the services he was entitled to and Iím not letting them off the hook. The principle wants to take away something that has helped with his ADHD and thatís wrong. Band has taught him how to focus, how to sit and stand still. It has kept him busy and out of trouble. This principle is not looking out for the best interest of one of his students. My son poses no threat to anyone; he is not violent and never has been. He very likely would have been offered a college scholarship if the principle would have let him audition, because he had the second highest score in the state. Believe me the punishment handed down by the discipline board, the punishment he got at home and not to mention he still has to go to family court was more than adequate. This audition should not have been taken away. It may have been appropriate if his other punishments were light, but they are not.
  12. #12
    rmet4nzkx is offline Senior Member
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    Many persons with Asperger's are brilliant, it is a disorder of normal to high intelligence, Einstein had Asperger's. Not all persons with Asperger's are clumsy, some are accomplished musians. Motzart & Mahler has Asperger's Some are outging and like attention, in fact they like a lot of attention. Thomas Jefferson has Asperger's. You are used to his speach and are not the best judge if he has any oddities of speach, nor can you look into his brain to see if the myelinization in the brain is on track, by his age it should be almost normal if he has ADHD and he should be having fewer probmens. Since you haven't taken him to be reevaluated you don't know if there are differences between the right and left hemisphere's in preformance. You make reference to superior range VIQ but what about PIQ how many points different? You keep stating he was punished, I am not questioning that, I am asking you to get him reevaluated because his behavior is sending up a red flag and you will be less happy when he continues to get in trouble, because you can punish him a 100 times and he may not get it.

    Historical famous people Associated with or having Asperger's/traits.

    * Jane Austen, 1775-1817, English novelist, author of Pride and Prejudice (see above)
    * Bťla Bartůk, 1881-1945, Hungarian composer
    * Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770-1827, German/Viennese composer
    * Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922, Scottish/Canadian/American inventor of the telephone
    * Anton Bruckner, 1824-1896, Austrian composer
    * Henry Cavendish, 1731-1810, English/French scientist, discovered the composition of air and water
    * Emily Dickinson, 1830-1886, US poet
    * Thomas Edison, 1847-1931, US inventor
    * Albert Einstein, 1879-1955, German/American theoretical physicist
    * Henry Ford, 1863-1947, US industrialist
    * Kaspar Hauser, c1812-1833, German foundling, portrayed in a film by Werner Herzog
    * Oliver Heaviside, 1850-1925, English physicist
    * Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826, US politician
    * Carl Jung, 1875-1961, Swiss psychoanalyst
    * Franz Kafka, 1883-1924, Czech writer
    * Wasily Kandinsky, 1866-1944, Russian/French painter
    * H P Lovecraft, 1890-1937, US writer
    * Ludwig II, 1845-1886, King of Bavaria
    * Charles Rennie Mackintosh, 1868-1928, Scottish architect and designer
    * Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911, Czech/Austrian composer
    * Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756-1791, Austrian composer
    * Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, English mathematician and physicist
    * Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, German philosopher
    * Bertrand Russell, 1872-1970, British logician
    * George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950, Irish playwright, writer of Pygmalion (see above), critic and Socialist
    * Richard Strauss, 1864-1949, German composer
    * Nikola Tesla, 1856-1943, Serbian/American scientist, engineer, inventor of electric motors
    * Henry Thoreau, 1817-1862, US writer
    * Alan Turing, 1912-1954, English mathematician, computer scientist and cryptographer
    * Mark Twain, 1835-1910, US humorist
    * Vincent Van Gogh, 1853-1890, Dutch painter
    * Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889-1951, Viennese/English logician and philosopher

    Historical people prominent in the late twentieth century (died after 1975)

    * Isaac Asimov, 1920-1992, Russian/US writer on science and of science fiction, author of Bicentennial Man (see above)
    * Hans Asperger, 1906-1980, Austrian paediatric doctor after whom Asperger's Syndrom is named
    * John Denver, 1943-1997, US musician
    * Glenn Gould, 1932-1982, Canadian pianist
    * Jim Henson, 1936-1990, creator of the Muppets, US puppeteer, writer, producer, director, composer
    * Alfred Hitch****, 1899-1980, English/American film director
    * Howard Hughes, 1905-1976, US billionaire
    * Andy Kaufman, 1949-1984, US comedian, subject of the film Man on the Moon
    * L S Lowry, 1887-1976, English painter of "matchstick men"
    * Charles Schulz, 1922-2000, US cartoonist and creator of Peanuts and Charlie Brown
    * Andy Warhol, 1928-1987, US artist

    Contemporary famous people

    * Woody Allen, 1935-, US comedian, actor, writer, director, producer, jazz clarinettist
    * Tony Benn, 1925-, English Labour politician
    * Bob Dylan, 1941-, US singer-songwriter
    * Joseph Erber, 1985-, young English composer/musician who has Asperger's Syndrome, subject of a BBC TV documentary
    * Bobby Fischer, 1943-, US chess champion
    * Bill Gates, 1955-, US global monopolist
    * Genie, 1957-?, US "wild child" (see also L'Enfant Sauvage, Victor, above)
    * Crispin Glover, 1964-, US actor
    * Al Gore, 1948-, former US Vice President and presidential candidate
    * Jeff Greenfield, 1943-, US political analyst/speechwriter, a political wonk
    * David Helfgott, 1947-, Australian pianist, subject of the film Shine
    * Michael Jackson, 1958-, US singer
    * Garrison Keillor, 1942-, US writer, humorist and host of Prairie Home Companion
    * Kevin Mitnick, 1963-, US "hacker"
    * John Motson, 1945-, English sports commentator
    * John Nash, 1928-, US mathematician (portrayed by Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind, USA 2001)
    * Keith Olbermann, 1959-, US sportscaster
    * Michael Palin, 1943-, English comedian and presenter
    * Keanu Reeves, 1964-, Lebanese/Canadian/US actor
    * Oliver Sacks, 1933-, UK/US neurologist, author of The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat and Awakenings
    * James Taylor, 1948-, US singer/songwriter
    Last edited by rmet4nzkx; 01-30-2006 at 11:52 AM. Reason: typo
  13. #13
    stealth2 is offline Senior Member
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    I'm just curious, OP... If you knew your son wasn't receiving services for the first 1 1/2 years of HS, why weren't you proactive about it? Seems a tad unrealistic to now pin it all on the school...
  14. #14
    rtbrain is offline Junior Member
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    met4nzkx:
    That's very interesting. His performance PIQ is above average. He is 16 and no one has ever commented on peculiar speech. The only thing that may be considered different is his speech was always better than kids his age as a toddler. Today he is very well spoken but doesn't try to speak above others his age. He scores very high on both verbal and math standardized testing and always has. He has fewer problems. He rarely gets into trouble anymore. When he was in elementary school and middle school he was in the office a lot for disruptive behavior. Since he has been in high school he has been in trouble only once before and it was not serious. He is in his third year so that is a great change. His hyperactivity is not dominant at all anymore but his impulsiveness is. I'll post an article below that was in his school paper. A local doctor wrote it that specializes in ADHD and it describes my son. I actually have an appointment to see her on Friday with my son. I will ask her about Aspergers while we are there because it would not hurt. Although I feel sure he is ADHD. I will let you know via this thread what she says, that is if it does not get locked.

    Stealth2:
    To answer your question-Things had been going well. I did not know that he was not receiving the services outlined in his 504 plan. My son had no complaints. The teachers had no concerns. I'm active with the band so itís not like I have nothing to do with the school. There was a huge improvement in my sonís maturity level when returning to school in his sophomore year after summer break. This was commented on by his band director, who spends more time with him than anyone at the school. What reason did I have to believe the school was not following the plan? Is it my sonís fault or my fault that they did not even acknowledge he had a 504 plan? Why should they not be held accountable? Do you think that my son is the only one who is not getting services their entitled to? Iíll bet there are many kids in the school who are not getting services they need. I intend to hold the school accountable. There is a lot more to what the principle has done recently and I just donít have the time to get into it. Iím contacting an advocacy agency and going from there. If the school has done nothing wrong they will not take the case.

    Here is the article-
    Many teens with ADHD are stopping their medication in the hopes that they have outgrown their disorder. Don't we wish it were so. 15 years ago the doctor would have told you your ADHD child will have outgrown it by the time they are 12 or 14. More and more research shows that the converse is true. Not only do they not outgrow it, the impulsive symptoms grow worse by leaps and bounds from age 12-14 until around age 25. Remember that the three main problems in ADHD are inattention, hyperactivity and impulsivity. The hyperactivity is indeed usually outgrown by the early teens. In fact the disorder used to be called hyperkinesis or hyperactivity. The name has been changed to reflect the main problem, which is inattention. All types fall under the name ADHD in the DSM IV classification system. The three sub-types are hyperactive-impulsive type, inattentive type, and combined type.)
    Inattention is the core symptom, and is probably never outgrown. Many adults with ADHD still need their medication, but only when they are doing boring things that they don't enjoy. Impulsivity is the big problem during the teen years. Impulsive behaviors are on the rise anyway during adolescence, but ADHD teens who are untreated or under-treated can have an increase of 4 to 5 times more impulsive behaviors. What this means is as many as two thirds of ADHD teens will have problems with drug and alcohol abuse. Half of ADHD boys will be convicted of a felony during their teens. Rates of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases are much higher in these kids. Expulsion and drop out rates are higher. Many more smoke because ADHD brains love nicotine. These behaviors are not stupidity, they are bad choices made by kids who know right from wrong, and even know the consequences, but haven't thought things through. Stimulants to treat ADHD work by turning on the parts of the brain that thinks through: the executive functions. These kids know the rules and the risks, but they aren't thinking first when they donít take their medication. But the scariest statistics of all are the driving statistics: 4 times as many car accidents, and much worse injuries due to driving accidents. When you are considering allowing your teen to stop their ADHD medication consider their impulsive behavior first. It's not just about school. They need their brains turned on all day and into the evening, so that when peer pressures exert themselves they are thinking like a responsible young adult, not just jumping into things without a thought. You as the parent are in the best place to judge your child's need for ongoing medication, but your teen can participate in the decision making process. ADHD is not an excuse, but it does explain a lot. We are remiss as parents if we don't pay attention and stay on top of things.
  15. #15
    stealth2 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtbrain
    A local doctor wrote it that specializes in ADHD and it describes my son. I actually have an appointment to see her on Friday with my son. I will ask her about Aspergers while we are there because it would not hurt. Although I feel sure he is ADHD. I will let you know via this thread what she says, that is if it does not get locked.
    Does this mean your son was never actually diagnosed? Just asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtbrain
    Stealth2:
    To answer your question-Things had been going well. I did not know that he was not receiving the services outlined in his 504 plan. My son had no complaints. The teachers had no concerns. I'm active with the band so itís not like I have nothing to do with the school. There was a huge improvement in my sonís maturity level when returning to school in his sophomore year after summer break. This was commented on by his band director, who spends more time with him than anyone at the school. What reason did I have to believe the school was not following the plan? Is it my sonís fault or my fault that they did not even acknowledge he had a 504 plan? Why should they not be held accountable? Do you think that my son is the only one who is not getting services their entitled to? Iíll bet there are many kids in the school who are not getting services they need. I intend to hold the school accountable. There is a lot more to what the principle has done recently and I just donít have the time to get into it. Iím contacting an advocacy agency and going from there. If the school has done nothing wrong they will not take the case.
    Well, I'm sorry, but I do think that parents have a responsibility to follow up on this sort of thing. Yes, the school is accountable. But - so are you.
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