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School Contributed to Negligence in Truancy Case?

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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm not so much concerned with the costs (within reason) as I am implementing a measure that will provide results. Fining me without implementing some kind of tool to produce results is what angers me. not because there is a cost involved, but because it doesn't provide for any kind of rehabilitation...the school district has simply become a collection agen. If I have to pay to enter the kids into some kind of program that will actually help...I'm okay with that.
Then, as was mentioned previously, you need to look in to "boot camp" type programs...
 


stealth2

Under the Radar Member
This is why I didn't want to post all of that here. I understand we need other kind of help...nothing that any of you can really help us with. I posted my question here to specifically address language in a statute...but certain individuals kept insisting that I supply them with more information.
But look at all of the suggestions you've received. I wasn't being nosy. So - you're welcome.
 

BryanK519

Junior Member
I've been following this thread without replying because, while this isn't really my area of expertise, I was once (long ago when the dinosaurs roamed the earth) briefly a teacher and education issues interest me. Bryan, let me explain to you a little bit about how these boards work and why some of the posters insisted on information you felt was not relevant. BTW, this is being offered solely as an explanation - there is no judgement or condemnation intended in what I'm saying here - towards anyone.

Those of us who have been on these boards for some time have seen over and over where posters come in with an idea that this is the way my problem can be solved. How can I make this happen? How can I force my ex/my employer/my lawyer/the police/the DA/the truant officer/et al to do what I want them to do? And they see as "non-helpful" any attempts to explore any alternate suggestions because it is so clear in their minds that this is the answer. No blame attached - the poster is the one living with the situation.

However, sometimes that is in itself part of the problem. Someone who is a little further removed and can be a bit more objective can see alternate solutions that may not be evident to the poster. Sometimes, before providing that alternate solution, the responder needs to ask for additional information so they can be sure that it's really a viable option. But the intent is to provide answers - just maybe not the answer the poster has convinced him or herself is the only possible one.

The volunteers here are responding out of their own experience.
Thanks CB. You're right, and I do appreciate those who responded with suggestions. I was just a little put off with the parental critique at the beginning and it got me a little defensive.
 

BryanK519

Junior Member
But look at all of the suggestions you've received. I wasn't being nosy. So - you're welcome.
Thank you Stealth. As I mentioned in the previous post, I was a little defensive due to some of the first responses providing critique on my parenting skills rather than offering solutions.
 

Humusluvr

Senior Member
Thanks CB. You're right, and I do appreciate those who responded with suggestions. I was just a little put off with the parental critique at the beginning and it got me a little defensive.
I can completely understand that. I would say that MOST of the time, the Ed Law forum has little to do with real legal issues, and a lot to do with parenting changes, changes in ways of looking at procedures or rules, or clarification of issues. For someone like me, who has worked as a teacher for ten years, a principal, and now a college professor - I know how to work a lot of the situations. That's why I would suggest the detailing of the situation in the journal, and approaching the judge with a "I have tried everything, here's the proof, please don't fine me, help me" type of attitude. Initially, when you posted, it could have been misconstrued that you were looking someone to blame - the school truancy officer - but through your repeated postings, I think we have come to some new conclusions about where you can go to get your kids the help they need. It's good to hear they are good students and not making the rest of your life hell.

Have you ever considered mandating your own type of community service on them? Like "Hey son, if you miss one hour of school, not only will you have to make up your school work, you'll have to do one hour community service at the shelter or for the church?" At least that kind of "punishment" would help to civic-ally involve them, and would be equivalent to what a judge might order. And if you were to get fined, then require the boys to pay you back by working at minimum wage jobs until you are compensated, along with community service? Show them that there are real world consequences when fines happen, or community service is ordered. Not in a harsh "PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH" type of way, but in a "actions have consequences" kind of way? Just a thought....
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
I'm not so much concerned with the costs (within reason) as I am implementing a measure that will provide results. Fining me without implementing some kind of tool to produce results is what angers me. not because there is a cost involved, but because it doesn't provide for any kind of rehabilitation...the school district has simply become a collection agen. If I have to pay to enter the kids into some kind of program that will actually help...I'm okay with that.
If your children get on probation, you'll be paying fees and costs for both. If they get put into placement by the state (probation/court) with the state paying, you'll be paying child support to the state.

If the children remain in your home, the probation officer is going to expect YOU to do your part to change your children. The probation officer and the Court are not going to take over parenting your children.
 

Eekamouse

Senior Member
I've been following this thread without replying because, while this isn't really my area of expertise, I was once (long ago when the dinosaurs roamed the earth) briefly a teacher and education issues interest me. Bryan, let me explain to you a little bit about how these boards work and why some of the posters insisted on information you felt was not relevant. BTW, this is being offered solely as an explanation - there is no judgement or condemnation intended in what I'm saying here - towards anyone.

Those of us who have been on these boards for some time have seen over and over where posters come in with an idea that this is the way my problem can be solved. How can I make this happen? How can I force my ex/my employer/my lawyer/the police/the DA/the truant officer/et al to do what I want them to do? And they see as "non-helpful" any attempts to explore any alternate suggestions because it is so clear in their minds that this is the answer. No blame attached - the poster is the one living with the situation.

However, sometimes that is in itself part of the problem. Someone who is a little further removed and can be a bit more objective can see alternate solutions that may not be evident to the poster. Sometimes, before providing that alternate solution, the responder needs to ask for additional information so they can be sure that it's really a viable option. But the intent is to provide answers - just maybe not the answer the poster has convinced him or herself is the only possible one.

The volunteers here are responding out of their own experience.
Really well said, cbg....
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Thank you Stealth. As I mentioned in the previous post, I was a little defensive due to some of the first responses providing critique on my parenting skills rather than offering solutions.
Sorry - I was being a bit snarky in my last post here.

I thought the idea of a journal showing what you have been doing to be a good one. You want the judge to see that you are trying, but nothing is working and you're not getting the help you and your boys need. Fining you isn't going to help - some type of intervention might.

Also - what does their counselor say? It doesn't seem as though s/he is doing much of anything to help with this situation.

The consequences for missing school is also a good idea. I don't know what sort of job you have, or what your situation is in terms of sick/vacation days. But look into whether it would be possible to make those consequences immediate. As in "you either go to school (and stay there) or spend the day doing XYZ." And then you stay home to make sure XYZ is done. Whether it's cleaning every bathroom in the house with a toothbrush, clearing brush in the back yard, doing community service, or whatever you decide is appropriate. They don't get to sit home on their behinds playing video games. Make being home during the school day as unpleasant as possible.

Good Luck.
 

BryanK519

Junior Member
I can completely understand that. I would say that MOST of the time, the Ed Law forum has little to do with real legal issues, and a lot to do with parenting changes, changes in ways of looking at procedures or rules, or clarification of issues. For someone like me, who has worked as a teacher for ten years, a principal, and now a college professor - I know how to work a lot of the situations. That's why I would suggest the detailing of the situation in the journal, and approaching the judge with a "I have tried everything, here's the proof, please don't fine me, help me" type of attitude. Initially, when you posted, it could have been misconstrued that you were looking someone to blame - the school truancy officer - but through your repeated postings, I think we have come to some new conclusions about where you can go to get your kids the help they need. It's good to hear they are good students and not making the rest of your life hell.

Have you ever considered mandating your own type of community service on them? Like "Hey son, if you miss one hour of school, not only will you have to make up your school work, you'll have to do one hour community service at the shelter or for the church?" At least that kind of "punishment" would help to civic-ally involve them, and would be equivalent to what a judge might order. And if you were to get fined, then require the boys to pay you back by working at minimum wage jobs until you are compensated, along with community service? Show them that there are real world consequences when fines happen, or community service is ordered. Not in a harsh "PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH" type of way, but in a "actions have consequences" kind of way? Just a thought....
I understand that, those who don't know my situation who read my original post may have taken it that way. It's only because I have been begging for help for so long and basically have been given the finger by every agency and school system I've tried to deal with have I taken such a defensive position. But in corresponding with a number of you, it has become clearer to me just what kind of impression that could make on a judge and I have reconsidered my approach.

That's a good idea about the community service. I will have to think about that, and trust me, my boys are well aware that they will be paying back any fine that is imposed on us, which will probably take away their allowance for life, and they may still be in our debt after they are old enough to get a job.
 

Antigone*

Senior Member
I understand that, those who don't know my situation who read my original post may have taken it that way. It's only because I have been begging for help for so long and basically have been given the finger by every agency and school system I've tried to deal with have I taken such a defensive position. But in corresponding with a number of you, it has become clearer to me just what kind of impression that could make on a judge and I have reconsidered my approach.

That's a good idea about the community service. I will have to think about that, and trust me, my boys are well aware that they will be paying back any fine that is imposed on us, which will probably take away their allowance for life, and they may still be in our debt after they are old enough to get a job.
IAAL would be advocating the Brazil treatment for these boys; and frankly dad, I don't blame you.

Good luck ~ stay strong.
 

BryanK519

Junior Member
If your children get on probation, you'll be paying fees and costs for both. If they get put into placement by the state (probation/court) with the state paying, you'll be paying child support to the state.

If the children remain in your home, the probation officer is going to expect YOU to do your part to change your children. The probation officer and the Court are not going to take over parenting your children.
I've never asked anybody to take over my job as parent. That's the kind of pot shot I was talking about that really pisses me off. I have asked the attendance officer to come out and assist me with "physically" getting him to school. I'm a big guy, but I can't carry 160 pound boy (yet alone two of them) kicking and struggling without getting into a serious physical entanglement that, by today's standards, would be considered abusive. I simply need somebody else to help me get these kids into the car. once they know they can't escape school by refusing to move or fighting against me, I think the problem is solved. but nobody is willing to assist me in that.
 

BryanK519

Junior Member
Sorry - I was being a bit snarky in my last post here.

I thought the idea of a journal showing what you have been doing to be a good one. You want the judge to see that you are trying, but nothing is working and you're not getting the help you and your boys need. Fining you isn't going to help - some type of intervention might.

Also - what does their counselor say? It doesn't seem as though s/he is doing much of anything to help with this situation.

The consequences for missing school is also a good idea. I don't know what sort of job you have, or what your situation is in terms of sick/vacation days. But look into whether it would be possible to make those consequences immediate. As in "you either go to school (and stay there) or spend the day doing XYZ." And then you stay home to make sure XYZ is done. Whether it's cleaning every bathroom in the house with a toothbrush, clearing brush in the back yard, doing community service, or whatever you decide is appropriate. They don't get to sit home on their behinds playing video games. Make being home during the school day as unpleasant as possible.

Good Luck.
The counsellor is the one who suggested that I try, again, to persuade the attendance officer to escort the boys to school. She agrees with me that could be a very effective approach. She has even offered to facilitate a meeting between me, the attendance officer, the school officials, and my children to work out a plan that would transfer the consequences onto them...but no one has taken me up on my offer. Counselling takes a long time, especially with as closed up and reclusive my kids are. it's a long-term solution, not a short term solution.

And trust me, staying home is very unpleasant and very boring for them.
 

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